Why did God create the tree of knowledge in the first place?

[skeleton tree]

If God did not want Adam and Eve to have that certain knowledge, then why did He create the tree in the first place? Why did He make it available to them? Why did He give them that option?

[Muz]

Umm... God told them not to eat from the tree, and Eve even repeated the command before eating. So, how can you say that they didn't know it was wrong?

Something to do with the name of the tree...

"tree of the knowledge of good and evil".. I don't see anything about "wrong" there. Are you saying that, in spite of being told not to eat from the tree under threat of death, they didn't know that God was serious?

Well, seeing as they knew that God created them, and they knew that God said not to eat.. what's the problem?

If you still don't see one, I can't help you further.

That would be because you don't distinguish "good/evil" from "right/wrong".

So, human have the intellectual capacity of dogs?

Is that what you honestly thought I implied with the analogy, or are you purposely attempting to misrepresent my position?

That is what you implied with your analogy. You were claiming that Adam and Eve were no more able to understand "don't do X' than your dog is.

Muz

[Goat]

Umm... God told them not to eat from the tree, and Eve even repeated the command before eating. So, how can you say that they didn't know it was wrong?

Something to do with the name of the tree...

"tree of the knowledge of good and evil".. I don't see anything about "wrong" there. Are you saying that, in spite of being told not to eat from the tree under threat of death, they didn't know that God was serious?

Well, seeing as they knew that God created them, and they knew that God said not to eat.. what's the problem?

If you still don't see one, I can't help you further.

That would be because you don't distinguish "good/evil" from "right/wrong".

So, human have the intellectual capacity of dogs?

Is that what you honestly thought I implied with the analogy, or are you purposely attempting to misrepresent my position?

That is what you implied with your analogy. You were claiming that Adam and Eve were no more able to understand "don't do X' than your dog is.

Muz

Probably less, according to the allegory. They were totally naive, and had to be prompted by the snake to eat. They were no better than a beast in the field, and until they ate of the fruit, they did not know good/evil/, right/wrong. It was a blessing actually. Unless you the capability to understand, you do not have the capability to choose to do good .

[bernee51]

Well, seeing as they knew that God created them, and they knew that God said not to eat.. what's the problem?

At what stage did they learn wrong from right?

For this particular action, that would have been when God said "From the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat, or you will surely die."

Put yourself in their shoes. You have no idea of right/wrong, good/evil or what 'you will surely die means'. You are innocent. Unsullied by all the knowledge we have of such things. God says "Don't eat'. You have no idea of the ramifications of disobeying.

They knew it was wrong because God told them not to.

Why? That still makes no sense. They had no idea of good/evil, right/wrong until after they committed the 'sin'

They didn't instinctively know it was evil, but that's not relevant in the presence of a direct command.
Unless you're going to claim that they had to experience evil before being able to know that not obeying a command of God was bad (which seems a little silly), I don't think your logic works, here.

Why is it 'silly' to assume that total innocents would be expected to know the difference between right or wrong, good or evil?

Besides god should have known what they were going to do anyway - why all the play acting?

[Muz]

Put yourself in their shoes. You have no idea of right/wrong, good/evil or what 'you will surely die means'. You are innocent. Unsullied by all the knowledge we have of such things. God says "Don't eat'. You have no idea of the ramifications of disobeying.

Why do A&E need to know more than "Don't eat, or you'll die" to not eat?

Why? That still makes no sense. They had no idea of good/evil, right/wrong until after they committed the 'sin'

If that were the case, then it wouldn't have been sin.

God still expressly told them "Don't eat ot the TKGE." If you assume that God is just, then the only He could punish them for violating the command if if they understood what it meant.

Why is it 'silly' to assume that total innocents would be expected to know the difference between right or wrong, good or evil?

Because they were told what "right" and "wrong" were in this case. There isn't much to understand in "don't eat that."

Besides god should have known what they were going to do anyway - why all the play acting?

I disagree. I think God fully expected that the would not eat from the tree.

Muz

[bernee51]

Put yourself in their shoes. You have no idea of right/wrong, good/evil or what 'you will surely die means'. You are innocent. Unsullied by all the knowledge we have of such things. God says "Don't eat'. You have no idea of the ramifications of disobeying.

Why do A&E need to know more than "Don't eat, or you'll die" to not eat?

Adam to Eve: Why did god say not eat?

Eve to Adam: I don't know.

Adam to Eve: What does die mean?

Eve to Adam: I don't know.

A to E Neither do I

E to A let's eat.

Why? That still makes no sense. They had no idea of good/evil, right/wrong until after they committed the 'sin'

If that were the case, then it wouldn't have been sin.

God still expressly told them "Don't eat ot the TKGE." If you assume that God is just, then the only He could punish them for violating the command if if they understood what it meant.

Exactly what has been said all along. God was/is obviously not just.

Why is it 'silly' to assume that total innocents would be expected to know the difference between right or wrong, good or evil?

Because they were told what "right" and "wrong" were in this case. There isn't much to understand in "don't eat that."

Did god say it was wrong to eat the fruit?

Besides god should have known what they were going to do anyway - why all the play acting?

I disagree. I think God fully expected that the would not eat from the tree.

So your god is not all knowing? That's a step down from the apparent general consensus of christians regarding their god.

[inchrist]

If God did not want Adam and Eve to have that certain knowledge, then why did He create the tree in the first place? Why did He make it available to them? Why did He give them that option?

The reason God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil was for one reason, mans freedom to choose. God did not create robots meant to do what he says, why not? He doesnt need us, God doesnt need a bunch of humans to worship him, God doesnt need a bunch of humans to love him. God created man for the purpose of sharing his love which is literally infinite. For example if you are a very loving person its IN you to love others. Ofcourse God is love, so he created us to give us his love, that we may like him, love one another.

BUT, in creating us, he gave us the choice to agree with his plan, which was for us to live in paradise sharing in Gods love, or to choose our OWN path. He did not force anyone into accepting his love. So by this, God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, God did NOT say to Adam and EVe, you can choose to live with me, or you can choose to eat of this tree. He said DO NOT eat from this tree, the day you eat of it, surely you will die. So EVEN THOUGH God gave us the free will, his love was looking out for our best interest which was "trust me you dont want to eat from the tree".

When Adam and Eve disobeyed the Lord, they did now have the ability to commit sin, which in truth would cause "death" just as the Lord told them. But the Lord said i will not leave you EVEN THOUGH i gave you the choice to choose to follow me or not, i will STILL send you my son Jesus Christ who will bring you BACK to me. (once again the lord chasing us, but not forcing us, to come back to him... Once again looking out for our best interest) Still, even after Jesus has saved us from our sins, we still have the choice up until this day to say.. No im going my own way, or to say, our father and mother Adam and Eve made the mistake once to follow the serpent, and look where it had lead us, I will choose to stay with my Lord, who looks out for my best interest and who created me for the purpose of loving me.


As for did adam and eve know what they were doing was bad?

Adam and even knew that they were disobeying what God's commandment, but did not understand exactly what it was that would happen to them after eating from the tree. And when being told by the serpent to disobey their master because if they did they could be like him all powerfull. They chose to eat from the tree despite what their God commanded them.

Without knowledge between "right" and "wrong", "disobedience" means nothing. They didn't choose anything because they didn't understand there were "right" and "wrong" options. When one disobeys a rule one realizes that at the very least there is a "right" and "wrong" to the intelligence that set the rule, concepts beyond their understanding before eating the fruit.

there is a difference between knowing what is right and wrong, and knowing WHY it is right or wrong. Adam and eve were created in a pure nature, meaning they knew what right and wrong was, but at the same time they did not understand why it was wrong. For example, if you tell a child not to eat cookies before dinner because its wrong, the childs mind will understand that YOU, the adult said not to do something, and for them being your child, should listen to the adult, the child does not undertsand the biological reasons why eating cookies before dinner is not good, but he 100% undertstands that you the adult, who is in charge, commanded him that he should not eat cookies before dinner. Therefore, some children behind their parents backs will sneak a cookie and when they are caught they will try to hide it (ive seen it in person) SO... is the child disobediant to the word of his parent? I think you know the answer is yes... AND AT THE SAME TIME, did the child KNOW that eating that cookie was WRONG? Yes, otherwise, why would he try to hide it. BUT As for the biological reasons why eating cookies will spoil your dinner, the child has NO CLUE why or how these cookies will ruin his apetite.

This is the same situation Adam and Eve were placed in, what you misunderstand is that the christian faith does not say Adam and Eve were completely obliviouse to every word God spoke to them concerning what they can or cannot do until they ate from the tree. The truth is, they were created with the understanding that he is God, the creator, who said, eat of any tree except the tree of knowledge, for the day you eat of it you shall die. Adam and Eve UNDERSTOOD that they should NOT eat of the tree, but they didnt understand what "DEATH" was. Proof that they knew NOT to eat of the tree.... when the serpent came to them and told them to eat from it they said, GOD told us NOT to eat from it, for the day we eat it we will die. So you see, they knew they were supose to obey God, but when the devil said, no you wont die, but you will be like God. They chose to disobey what the Lord God told them, and by THIS disobedience they fell from eternal life.

[Beto]

there is a difference between knowing what is right and wrong, and knowing WHY it is right or wrong. Adam and eve were created in a pure nature, meaning they knew what right and wrong was, but at the same time they did not understand why it was wrong.

Since this follows no logic I'm aware of, would you quote the relevant scripture that in your mind reveals this difference? All I know is that there's a tree with a fruit which eaten grants knowledge between good/right and evil/wrong. I'll assume you don't presume to know more about the nature of Adam and Eve than what the inspired Word revealed to you.

[Metatron]

there is a difference between knowing what is right and wrong, and knowing WHY it is right or wrong. Adam and eve were created in a pure nature, meaning they knew what right and wrong was, but at the same time they did not understand why it was wrong. For example, if you tell a child not to eat cookies before dinner because its wrong, the childs mind will understand that YOU, the adult said not to do something, and for them being your child, should listen to the adult, the child does not undertsand the biological reasons why eating cookies before dinner is not good, but he 100% undertstands that you the adult, who is in charge, commanded him that he should not eat cookies before dinner. Therefore, some children behind their parents backs will sneak a cookie and when they are caught they will try to hide it (ive seen it in person) SO... is the child disobediant to the word of his parent? I think you know the answer is yes... AND AT THE SAME TIME, did the child KNOW that eating that cookie was WRONG? Yes, otherwise, why would he try to hide it. BUT As for the biological reasons why eating cookies will spoil your dinner, the child has NO CLUE why or how these cookies will ruin his apetite.

The problem with your analogy above is that the child in your example would have no concept of obedience to the parent until the child had been reprimanded for this defiance. Few children naturally obey a parent in the face of an attractive option (the cookie) until they have learned through experience that disobeying their parents has consequences. There is no evidence in the Adam and Eve story that they had ever faced a moral choice before or had ever been reprimanded in any fashion by YHWH. Given that they had not yet eaten from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there is no reason to believe that they even had any innate sense of morality. Having no moral compass, no comprehension of the consequences, and being been told by the talking snake that it was, in fact, okay to eat the fruit, it is no great wonder that Adam and Eve ate it. It would have been fairly amazing if they had not under the circumstances.

[inchrist]

there is a difference between knowing what is right and wrong, and knowing WHY it is right or wrong. Adam and eve were created in a pure nature, meaning they knew what right and wrong was, but at the same time they did not understand why it was wrong.

Since this follows no logic I'm aware of, would you quote the relevant scripture that in your mind reveals this difference? All I know is that there's a tree with a fruit which eaten grants knowledge between good/right and evil/wrong. I'll assume you don't presume to know more about the nature of Adam and Eve than what the inspired Word revealed to you.

The tree was literally called the tree of knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, not right and wrong, those are actually 2 different things. To know what is good an evil, is to fully understand what you are doing, and that knowledge is the reason we sin. If we didnt understand what evil we did, how can the Lord judge us? he wont. For we had no knowledge of what was GOOD and what was EVIL. But the knowledge of what is RIGHT and WRONG we DID have, and as i said, the bible shows us this when the serpent tells Eve to eat from the tree and she says, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it,". This verse alone tells us that adam and eve did NOT understand why they couldnt eat from the tree, but they DID know that in doing so they would be disobeying God.

[Beto]

there is a difference between knowing what is right and wrong, and knowing WHY it is right or wrong. Adam and eve were created in a pure nature, meaning they knew what right and wrong was, but at the same time they did not understand why it was wrong.

Since this follows no logic I'm aware of, would you quote the relevant scripture that in your mind reveals this difference? All I know is that there's a tree with a fruit which eaten grants knowledge between good/right and evil/wrong. I'll assume you don't presume to know more about the nature of Adam and Eve than what the inspired Word revealed to you.

The tree was literally called the tree of knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, not right and wrong, those are actually 2 different things. To know what is good an evil, is to fully understand what you are doing, and that knowledge is the reason we sin. If we didnt understand what evil we did, how can the Lord judge us? he wont. For we had no knowledge of what was GOOD and what was EVIL. But the knowledge of what is RIGHT and WRONG we DID have, and as i said, the bible shows us this when the serpent tells Eve to eat from the tree and she says, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it,". This verse alone tells us that adam and eve did NOT understand why they couldnt eat from the tree, but they DID know that in doing so they would be disobeying God.

Just because the writers of Genesis imagined there was any real difference between "right" and "good" that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't rise above their limitations. To an honest observer it doesn't make any more sense just because it's the Bible. This is a last and desperate line of defense that takes refuge behind pointless and misleading semantics discussions.