Why Would God Make Rules Subjugating Women?

[Diogenes]

This subtopic takes as a given that all three major Abrahamic religions developed laws to control or subjugate women to a different or lesser status. That is taken as a given for the purpose of this thread. Anyone who doubts the Abrahamic religions have, historically, fashioned rules for men to control women is advised to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and ... _religions and start their own, separate topic for discussion, rather than argue that here.

The question for debate in this topic is "Why would God make rules that allow for the subjugation and control of women by men? The current example of such subjugation in its extreme form deals with the morality police in Iran, punishing and allegedly even murdering women for not 'properly' covering their hair with the hijab.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/11242372 ... ity-police
But historically similar rules have been endorsed by both Jewish and Christian scriptures as well.

[Diogenes]

I was simply trying to inject order into chaos.

No, you are injecting chaos into order. You've been asked to return to the subject, the subjugation of women ordered in the Bible and the Quran by God. Why would a true God of all do this. Try to avoid a lecture on chemistry and physics in your answer.
If you cannot directly answer the question at issue, your readers will assume you have no sufficient answer and we may conclude it was bigoted men and their culture that subjugates women, not God. This thread represents more evidence the God of the Bible and the Quran does not exist; 'He' is merely the invention of men used to justify their own biases and grab for power.

[2ndpillar2]

I was simply trying to inject order into chaos.

No, you are injecting chaos into order. You've been asked to return to the subject, the subjugation of women ordered in the Bible and the Quran by God. Why would a true God of all do this. Try to avoid a lecture on chemistry and physics in your answer.
If you cannot directly answer the question at issue, your readers will assume you have no sufficient answer and we may conclude it was bigoted men and their culture that subjugates women, not God. This thread represents more evidence the God of the Bible and the Quran does not exist; 'He' is merely the invention of men used to justify their own biases and grab for power.

If you had read your "bible", you would have gotten the idea that while God created everything, that would include the righteous along with the wicked. The "wicked" according to the Matthew 13:39 would be a product of the message of the "devil", and according to 1 John 3:8, are "of the devil". The "devil" or the father of lies, was created to produce a material world from a non-matter world, which is shown in the geometry of the world, whereas you have both matter and antimatter, and light (energy waves) versus dark energy. Everything is balanced, as for every force there is an equal and opposite force, all these being laws of order, versus the chaos/darkness of the "beginning". This issue is spiritually present in the story that God loved Jacob but hated Edom. As for the bible and Quran not existing, that is probably not correct in this Universe. Whether they present truth or not, is something that can be debated. The Quran is a combination of themes from Persia, the Jews, and the Christians, and while it apparently exists, it exists in many forms with many forms sprouting from it, such as Shia, Sunni, and Sufism. According to Matthew 13, the NT is a combination of the "message of the devil" and the "message of the son of man", which will stay in place until the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30), whereas comith the "reapers" who will "gather" the "tares"/lawless and toss them into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30 & 41-42 & 49-50), which is the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21). As for your own biases, well, we have a constitutional Republic which allows for them as long as they do not cross the line, and try and force me to call you they, and believe everything you say.

[Clownboat]

I was simply trying to inject order into chaos.

No, you are injecting chaos into order. You've been asked to return to the subject, the subjugation of women ordered in the Bible and the Quran by God. Why would a true God of all do this. Try to avoid a lecture on chemistry and physics in your answer.
If you cannot directly answer the question at issue, your readers will assume you have no sufficient answer and we may conclude it was bigoted men and their culture that subjugates women, not God. This thread represents more evidence the God of the Bible and the Quran does not exist; 'He' is merely the invention of men used to justify their own biases and grab for power.

If you had read your "bible", you would have gotten the idea that while God created everything, that would include the righteous along with the wicked. The "wicked" according to the Matthew 13:39 would be a product of the message of the "devil", and according to 1 John 3:8, are "of the devil". The "devil" or the father of lies, was created to produce a material world from a non-matter world, which is shown in the geometry of the world, whereas you have both matter and antimatter, and light (energy waves) versus dark energy. Everything is balanced, as for every force there is an equal and opposite force, all these being laws of order, versus the chaos/darkness of the "beginning". This issue is spiritually present in the story that God loved Jacob but hated Edom. As for the bible and Quran not existing, that is probably not correct in this Universe. Whether they present truth or not, is something that can be debated. The Quran is a combination of themes from Persia, the Jews, and the Christians, and while it apparently exists, it exists in many forms with many forms sprouting from it, such as Shia, Sunni, and Sufism. According to Matthew 13, the NT is a combination of the "message of the devil" and the "message of the son of man", which will stay in place until the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30), whereas comith the "reapers" who will "gather" the "tares"/lawless and toss them into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30 & 41-42 & 49-50), which is the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21). As for your own biases, well, we have a constitutional Republic which allows for them as long as they do not cross the line, and try and force me to call you they, and believe everything you say.

That was a lot of words you typed. Next time you could try, "I don't know why a God would create rules that subjugate women" and save us all time.

Also, just so you know... It was the Shia God of chaos and darkness that create all the non-matter (anit-matter is a hole other story!) that affect the eternal energy waves that we can see present in our geometry.

Yup

[2ndpillar2]

I was simply trying to inject order into chaos.

No, you are injecting chaos into order. You've been asked to return to the subject, the subjugation of women ordered in the Bible and the Quran by God. Why would a true God of all do this. Try to avoid a lecture on chemistry and physics in your answer.
If you cannot directly answer the question at issue, your readers will assume you have no sufficient answer and we may conclude it was bigoted men and their culture that subjugates women, not God. This thread represents more evidence the God of the Bible and the Quran does not exist; 'He' is merely the invention of men used to justify their own biases and grab for power.

If you had read your "bible", you would have gotten the idea that while God created everything, that would include the righteous along with the wicked. The "wicked" according to the Matthew 13:39 would be a product of the message of the "devil", and according to 1 John 3:8, are "of the devil". The "devil" or the father of lies, was created to produce a material world from a non-matter world, which is shown in the geometry of the world, whereas you have both matter and antimatter, and light (energy waves) versus dark energy. Everything is balanced, as for every force there is an equal and opposite force, all these being laws of order, versus the chaos/darkness of the "beginning". This issue is spiritually present in the story that God loved Jacob but hated Edom. As for the bible and Quran not existing, that is probably not correct in this Universe. Whether they present truth or not, is something that can be debated. The Quran is a combination of themes from Persia, the Jews, and the Christians, and while it apparently exists, it exists in many forms with many forms sprouting from it, such as Shia, Sunni, and Sufism. According to Matthew 13, the NT is a combination of the "message of the devil" and the "message of the son of man", which will stay in place until the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30), whereas comith the "reapers" who will "gather" the "tares"/lawless and toss them into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30 & 41-42 & 49-50), which is the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21). As for your own biases, well, we have a constitutional Republic which allows for them as long as they do not cross the line, and try and force me to call you they, and believe everything you say.

That was a lot of words you typed. Next time you could try, "I don't know why a God would create rules that subjugate women" and save us all time.

Also, just so you know... It was the Shia God of chaos and darkness that create all the non-matter (anit-matter is a hole other story!) that affect the eternal energy waves that we can see present in our geometry.

Yup

I am thinking you are conflating the "message of the devil" (Matthew 13:39), sown by Paul, the son of the "devil" (1 John 3:8), for Paul, according to his message, was the "foremost sinner". Now if you could show where "God" "subjugates" women, then I might know where you are coming from. From Genesis, God joined man and women into "one flesh". How is one subjugated separately from the other. Once you follow the "false prophets", such as Paul, you are on the road to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15) and walk in darkness. God anointed a woman as a judge of Israel, whereas she would judge men.

[Clownboat]

To respond in kind...

I am thinking you are conflating the "message of the devil" (Matthew 13:39), sown by Paul, the son of the "devil" (1 John 3:8),

That was Craig. You are conflating Paul with Craig.

for Paul, according to his message, was the "foremost sinner".

That was just one of Craig's deceptions, not that Paul was not a sinner though.

Now if you could show where "God" "subjugates" women

There is no god that I'm aware of to subjugate women, so you ask for the impossible. There is a book that millions claim was inspired by a god that did such a thing though. That is what is being discussed here.

then I might know where you are coming from.

Your responses about crystals and geometry doesn't give me hope.

From Genesis, God joined man and women into "one flesh". How is one subjugated separately from the other.

Well holy monkeys! Why didn't you say they were one flesh earlier. Thank you for proving all the subjugation in the Bible is moot because men and women are one flesh.

Can you define 'one flesh' for me please?

Once you follow the "false prophets", such as Paul, you are on the road to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15) and walk in darkness. God anointed a woman as a judge of Israel, whereas she would judge men.

You're doing it again. Following the teachings of Craig. Craig cannot be trusted. I only warn you of this to prevent your own destruction and to pull you from your walk of darkness.

[Falling Light 101]

.

there is absolutely nothing in the original manuscripts - that Make Rules Subjugating Women.

1Ti 2:12  γυναικι women - δε also - διδασκειν teaching - ουκ not - επιτρεπω permitted
ουδε neither - αυθεντειν an authentic - ανδρος male - αλλ unless - ειναι they be - εν in - ησυχια  quietness / calmness

1Ti 2:13  αδαμ Adam - γαρ for - πρωτος first - επλασθη was formed - ειτα then -
ευα  Shavah, = Eve.

1Ti 2:14  και And - αδαμ Adam - ουκ not - ηπατηθη deceived - η but - δε the -
γυνη woman - απατηθεισα was deceived - εν in - παραβασει the transgression -
γεγονεν  made

1Ti 2:15  σωθησεται will be saved - δε also - δια through - της the - τεκνογονιας child - bearing - εαν if - μεινωσιν they abide - εν in - πιστει faith - και and - αγαπη love - και and - αγιασμω sanctification - μετα with - σωφροσυνης  self-control.

1Ti 2:12 women also teaching not permitted, neither an authentic { Greek = authenteō } male, BUT / unless they be in quietness / calmness / peacefully.

the translations are Making Rules Subjugating Women - by altering and changing the original meaning and message


trinitarian translation

1Ti 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 
1Ti 2:13  For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 
1Ti 2:14  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 
1Ti 2:15  Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. 

[Clownboat]

.

there is absolutely nothing in the original manuscripts - that Make Rules Subjugating Women.

1Ti 2:12  γυναικι women - δε also - διδασκειν teaching - ουκ not - επιτρεπω permitted
ουδε neither - αυθεντειν an authentic - ανδρος male - αλλ unless - ειναι they be - εν in - ησυχια  quietness / calmness

1Ti 2:13  αδαμ Adam - γαρ for - πρωτος first - επλασθη was formed - ειτα then -
ευα  Shavah, = Eve.

1Ti 2:14  και And - αδαμ Adam - ουκ not - ηπατηθη deceived - η but - δε the -
γυνη woman - απατηθεισα was deceived - εν in - παραβασει the transgression -
γεγονεν  made

1Ti 2:15  σωθησεται will be saved - δε also - δια through - της the - τεκνογονιας child - bearing - εαν if - μεινωσιν they abide - εν in - πιστει faith - και and - αγαπη love - και and - αγιασμω sanctification - μετα with - σωφροσυνης  self-control.

1Ti 2:12 women also teaching not permitted, neither an authentic { Greek = authenteō } male, BUT / unless they be in quietness / calmness / peacefully.

the translations are Making Rules Subjugating Women - by altering and changing the original meaning and message


trinitarian translation

1Ti 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 
1Ti 2:13  For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 
1Ti 2:14  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 
1Ti 2:15  Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. 

I don't much care personally about who is correct here, but would like to point out that there is disagreement about your words.

Why Women Need Freedom From Religion

Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc.
https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/1851 ... m-religion
Organized religion always has been and remains the greatest enemy of women's rights. In the Christian-dominated Western world, two bible verses in particular sum up the position of women:

"I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."--Genesis 3:16
By this third chapter of Genesis, woman lost her rights, her standing--even her identity, and motherhood became a God-inflicted curse degrading her status in the world.

In the New Testament, the bible decrees:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."--1 Tim. 2:11-14

One bible verse alone, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18) is responsible for the death of tens of thousands, if not millions, of women. Do women and those who care about them need further evidence of the great harm of Christianity, predicated as it has been on these and similar teachings about women?

Again, I'm just pointing out the disagreement as I'm no longer saddled with having to make the Bible make sense and be tolerable. I'll leave it to Christians to continue to fight with each other about who is the correct Christian.

[Falling Light 101]

.

don't you consider that the Trinitarian religious organizations would have found another excuse to kill millions of people had the Bible not even existed. This was simply the type of people they were,

they could have taken any document about law, science or morality and manipulated and altered and perverted its context and original purpose.

The Bible shows a cause and effect and details the death penality and punishment for following other Gods and evil ideologies because they were a physical danger to society resulting in the destruction, diseases, infections and death of thousands of innocent people.

This is the narrative and foundation in the scriptures for the death penality and punishment


Not a single witch was burned - not a single homosexual was killed - nor a single adulterer was ever even ONCE recorded to have been harmed or killed in 7000 years of Bible history.

not one person - is recorded in the Bible to have been killed or harmed by someone following the instructions of the death penality and punishment - the scriptures did not glorify the killing of anyone -

the scriptures detail from the beginning - why the death penality and punishment was given and this was to protect innocent people from the dangers of following destructive and damaging customs that caused the death and suffering of the innocent,.

[boatsnguitars]

Like Trumpists/MAGAts, Religionists will try to gaslight everyone and try to get them to believe up is down, left is right - and the Bible doesn't say what it says.

However, you will have other - more conservative, and more pious Christians, Jews, Muslims and Mormons saying that "yes, Women are subject to men, and that's the way God made it - and who are you to question God."

That's the problem. We all know God doesn't exist and that it's just men (many of them incels or misogynists) making up things they want to be true. They are too powerless to force the world to dance to their tune, so they try to us God as their "heavy", as their "muscle".

It's so utterly transparent, and it's why almost everyone hates Religionists (think of how Muslims hate Christians and visa versa, etc.). They all know the game and they resent someone using the same con they're trying to pull.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Falling Light 101 in post #226]


I don't get the point. Apart from all the translations I looked at make the passage a burnt offering and ignoring some kind of global conspiracy to mistranslate the Bible, the contexts seems to make it clear that Jepthah had to make a sacrifice of his daughter Judges 11. 31 Then, when I return home safely, I will give you a burnt offering. Whatever is first to come out through the door of my house as I arrive, I will offer it to you as a sacrifice.’

So however you translate a particular word, a sacrifice (however it was done) is what was done, as promised.

So what exactly was the point you were making?