Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

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perfessor
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Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

Post #1

Post by perfessor »

http://www.wlos.com/

I don't get it. Didn't Jesus ply his trade among tax collectors, prostitutes, and other "sinners"?
East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.
So my question for debate: Should the East Waynesville Baptist Church lose its tax-exempt status?

I say they should, since the pastor has turned the church into an arm of the Republican party.
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

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MagusYanam
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Post #241

Post by MagusYanam »

Those last two posts belong in the 'religion and science' subforum, I should think. As such, the conversation should probably steer back on topic - should the Baptist church in question be recognised legally as a political organisation?

AlAyeti
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Post #242

Post by AlAyeti »

Your response is why the good Pastor asked the liberals to leave.

Convoluted but still denial of the real god.

Evolution is a bumbler-god if theism is to be hung on that path.

Things said in french (or laitin) sound so profound.

How do you spell "male bovine excrement" in the language of the Romans?

It all boils down to gathering preachers and teachers to say whatever your itching ears want to hear. "Liberal" theology is just that.

A good Pastor protects his flock.

Now there are "churches" affirming and celebrating abomination.

Psuedo-Christianity.
Last edited by AlAyeti on Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #243

Post by AlAyeti »

Sorry. I posted the same thing twice.

But, Magus,

Has your Jewish roommate ever read any of the Prophets?

That a descendant of an Israelite got it wrong is not surprising.

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micatala
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Post #244

Post by micatala »

AlAyeti wrote:Evolution is the denial of the Biblical God. Or, relegating the Biblical God to a bumbler that needed a infinite number of drawing boards and yet, even now not reaching whatever potential is in store for those of us that have the breath of life in us..
Yes, Magus is probably right that this is irrelevant to the topic at hand, but Al has a way of digressing far and wide in his ramblings.

At any rate, the claim that evolution is the denial of the Biblical God is false. Evolution may contradict a literal 6-day creation interpretation of Genesis, but it does not contradict the idea of a creator, of original sin, of God as a spiritual being, of God as a God who cares about His people, or of Jesus as the Son of God.

As far as evolution relegating God to being a bumbler, there would be a case to be made for this more on Biblical grounds than evolutionary, and the arguements on this are rather old. How many different covenants did God go through with the Israelites before we got to the current one? Why did God have to repent of the 'evil' He did in creating man by destroying men in the flood? Why didn't he get it right the first time? Why did God allow Satan to torture Job and murder his sons and daughters? Why did God make the murder of the children of Bethlehem by Herod part of the plan of bringing his Son into the world?

There are actually good answers to these questions, I think, but not for those with a black and white mind set like our Baptist Pastor.

(There, I got us back on thread :lol: )

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MagusYanam
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Post #245

Post by MagusYanam »

Good points, micatala. The Biblical God, while I wouldn't call him a 'bumbler', certainly did go through a number of learning experiences in his dealings with his creatures. He regretted his creation so much he moved to drown it all in the flood, then regretted the flood so much that he promised the survivors that he would never again try to destroy his entire creation thus. The Rabbinic tradition and, I should think, much of the Christian tradition in the neonaturalist vein are comfortable with an intelligent God who is able to grow and learn.

Bill Moyers' discussion series on Genesis is good watching if you want to see a number of different viewpoints on the narrative (conservative and liberal Christian, Sufist and reform Muslim, Judaist).
AlAyeti wrote:It all boils down to gathering preachers and teachers to say whatever your itching ears want to hear. "Liberal" theology is just that.

A good Pastor protects his flock.

Now there are "churches" affirming and celebrating abomination.

Psuedo-Christianity.
Antisemitism and anti-French sentiment notwithstanding, your last posts begged a question. A good pastor protects his flock from... what? Liberal theology is not just saying what the liberals want to hear - if you knew anything about the history of Christianity in this country you wouldn't have said anything so foolish. Liberal theologians have often been treated with the same scorn as the prophets of old, especially when they spoke out against the social evils of their day - mainly poverty, social injustice and capitalist excess. And to some extent, we're still doing that. It's just that we haven't had any Reinhold Niebuhrs or Martin Luther King, Jrs. in awhile.

One could just as well say the conservatives are preaching to their choirs, respectively, confirming people in their prejudices and political regression and claiming to speak for God. And the actions of this particular pastor would seem to indicate that some conservatives at least are doing just that.

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Post #246

Post by micatala »

Yes, I think it is fair to say that Christians of all stripes (and we see the same happen in Islam and Judaism, etc.) often tend to attend churches that reinforce their own beliefs, whether these beliefs pre-dated their faith or not. This is not necessarily a bad thing, unless it is done uncritically.

Part of what this Baptist preacher may be doing is attempting to remove from his church those who would give an alternative perspective. His church will now be even more homogeneous than it was, with less of a capacity for correction and honest meaningful dialogue. One could certainly make the casae that this is not good for his flock.

In fact, conservative churchs are full of examples of 'preaching what people's itching ears want to hear,' in my view. James Kennedy's rantings against evolution have been cited in other threads, for example. The same could be said for much of the 'preaching against homosexuality.' Much of this preaching is arguably not 'Christian' in the sense that it is not based in love, is fearful and sometimes hateful, is dishonest, and seeks to bring into man realm those judgments that the Bible says are in God's purview.

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Post #247

Post by AlAyeti »

Honest and meaningful dialogue?

That has been abused out of the minds of the liberal. Now truly it is "whatever goes" is the Liberal message. But certainly not a Biblical one. UInless we think ion terms of the Sodomites. Which is frighteningly accurate in the liberal mind of today.

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Post #248

Post by MagusYanam »

AlAyeti wrote:Honest and meaningful dialogue?

That has been abused out of the minds of the liberal. Now truly it is "whatever goes" is the Liberal message. But certainly not a Biblical one. UInless we think ion terms of the Sodomites. Which is frighteningly accurate in the liberal mind of today.
If you want to know what I really think, it's that the Sodomite view is more reflective of modern conservatism than of modern liberalism. Abuse of those with differing views or differing backgrounds - those were the true sins of Sodom. They abused the angels and they refused to listen to Lot because both were alien (foreign), just as this pastor is abusing and refusing to heed the aliens (Democrats) in his congregation.

An honest liberal will at least come to the table with an eye to his own prejudices and willingness to consider the possibility that he is wrong. I see nothing of the sort from the Bush Administration or their neoconservative supporters.

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Post #249

Post by harvey1 »

MagusYanam wrote:An honest liberal will at least come to the table with an eye to his own prejudices and willingness to consider the possibility that he is wrong. I see nothing of the sort from the Bush Administration or their neoconservative supporters.
I don't think so. I've debated many liberals and many neo-conservatives, and my own view is that both, for the most part, are so locked in their perspective that both cannot think outside of their own ways of viewing the world. If you don't believe me, then try and show some support for Bush with some of your liberal friends and see their reaction. It's the same reaction you would get if one tried to show support for Ted Kennedy in front of conservatives.

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Post #250

Post by Chimp »

If by support, you mean agree with some aspect of his policy, then I have
done this, and not suffered scorn. However, there is very little in his policies
to support.

The important aspect of this is an informed opinion, regardless of political
position. Most people who try to debate politics are sycophants. It's easier
to teach people a sound bite rather than explain the difference between
debt and deficit.

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