Messiah's 2nd Coming?

[Elijah John]

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?

Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?

[marco]

[Replying to post 29 by marco]

Thank you. Your opinion is noted.

My opinion is drawn from reality not from a poem. When a hammer strikes a finger resulting in pain it is not Adam's doing. I don't see how the world is helped in any way by ascribing tragedy and disaster to Adam or a snake. Have we not outlived such superstitions? Man has walked on the moon but he hasn't wandered in Eden.

[JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE: On the other hand many are following the advice of St. Paul.


1 Thessalonians 5:21New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
21 but test everything; hold fast to what is good;

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways.

Two excellent scriptures which I do my best to apply in life. Good to see Paul's writings being mentioned in a positive light on this forum.


JW

[Elijah John]

RESPONSE: On the other hand many are following the advice of St. Paul.


1 Thessalonians 5:21New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
21 but test everything; hold fast to what is good;

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways.

Two excellent scriptures which I do my best to apply in life. Good to see Paul's writings being mentioned in a positive light on this forum.


JW

"Test everything" Yes, including the theology of Paul, which I have tested and found wanting.

"Hold fast to what is good"

Paul provides much Wisdom and good advice, which I can hold fast to, in spite of his barbaric blood theology.

"Childish things" Like taking the Garden story literally, which Paul seems to...in fact it is the basis of his "2nd Adam/ransom" theology.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 29 by marco]

Thank you. Your opinion is noted.

My opinion is drawn from reality not from a poem. When a hammer strikes a finger resulting in pain it is not Adam's doing. I don't see how the world is helped in any way by ascribing tragedy and disaster to Adam or a snake. Have we not outlived such superstitions? Man has walked on the moon but he hasn't wandered in Eden.

So, even though our original father turned his back on God and insisted on ignoring God's counsel, you do not hold him in any way responsible for the mess the world is in? I'll bet that you would find fault with God if He had gotten rid of Adam and started over! You might say, "Hey, God should've given Adam the chance to prove his point that he could rule himself better than God could!" Am I right?

[marco]

So, even though our original father turned his back on God and insisted on ignoring God's counsel, you do not hold him in any way responsible for the mess the world is in? I'll bet that you would find fault with God if He had gotten rid of Adam and started over! You might say, "Hey, God should've given Adam the chance to prove his point that he could rule himself better than God could!" Am I right?

Dear onewithhim, I do not doubt your sincerity. I do not believe Adam existed, so drawing conclusions from him doesn't make sense to me. As I have said, many, many times, I take his story to be fictional or figurative. As a boy of fifteen I discussed this with a learned Jesuit who also took Genesis to be figurative. I may have discarded my faith but not my common sense.

[onewithhim]

So, even though our original father turned his back on God and insisted on ignoring God's counsel, you do not hold him in any way responsible for the mess the world is in? I'll bet that you would find fault with God if He had gotten rid of Adam and started over! You might say, "Hey, God should've given Adam the chance to prove his point that he could rule himself better than God could!" Am I right?

Dear onewithhim, I do not doubt your sincerity. I do not believe Adam existed, so drawing conclusions from him doesn't make sense to me. As I have said, many, many times, I take his story to be fictional or figurative. As a boy of fifteen I discussed this with a learned Jesuit who also took Genesis to be figurative. I may have discarded my faith but not my common sense.

Shame on the Jesuit who claims to be representing the God of the Bible and yet discards what the Bible says, as figurative. That is exactly why Jesus Christ condemned the Pharisees as HYPOCRITES.

[marco]

Shame on the Jesuit who claims to be representing the God of the Bible and yet discards what the Bible says, as figurative. That is exactly why Jesus Christ condemned the Pharisees as HYPOCRITES.

His interpretation was more effectively persuasive than yours. But to be fair I'm sure he didn't know that in you resided the correct interpretation and years of study and academic brilliance would not have helped one iota. I am surprised Christ condemned the Pharisee because of my Jesuit tutor.

[onewithhim]

Shame on the Jesuit who claims to be representing the God of the Bible and yet discards what the Bible says, as figurative. That is exactly why Jesus Christ condemned the Pharisees as HYPOCRITES.

His interpretation was more effectively persuasive than yours. But to be fair I'm sure he didn't know that in you resided the correct interpretation and years of study and academic brilliance would not have helped one iota. I am surprised Christ condemned the Pharisee because of my Jesuit tutor.

So you think more like your Jesuit tutor than you do Christ? I wonder which one is in error.

[Willum]

Wow, EJ, I am again astounded by your creativity and application of logic - and if I am following your lead appropriately, I think I can answer your question succinctly, in the way you hoped others would see in the value of your reason:

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around?

Yes, yes it was.
It could only be a result of failure.

[marco]

So you think more like your Jesuit tutor than you do Christ? I wonder which one is in error.

I am not having a discussion with Jesus but if you think you speak for Jesus, then what can I say? I have pointed out many times that yours is an INTERPRETATION and the Jesuit's view is also an interpretation.

Let us return to what we are discussing: the meaning of Christ's words. I have an interpretation and so have you. Jesus hasn't declared himself.