Placing Human-Life Value on an Embryo. Is it logical?

[jgh7]

Many Christians take the stance that from the moment of conception an embryo/zygote/whatever has become a human life and has "human life value". Aborting it would be wrong because its "human life value" outweighs the issues of the woman who has to go through the pregnancy.

Is this logical? Can you be an atheist and still place "human life value" on an embryo? Can you be an atheist and be pro-life?

(pro-life is the politically neutral term for being against abortion in all or most cases).

[KenRU]

Do you have any evidence to back up such a claim?

Look up the racist origin of "Planned Parenthood" because that covers the topic rather decisively.

Link here = A collection of quotes by Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood

Quotes from the 1930's does not back up your claim. While clearly Sanger's quotes are detestable (if true), it is still irrelevant. You need to show that the organization is racist TODAY.

If you have data or evidence that shows today that Planned Parenthood is a racist organization, I'd love to see it.

True or false, if birth mothers stopped having abortions, would there be an abortion industry?

That might be theoretically true, but that is dumping the blame and responsibility onto the victims, while ignoring the gigantic pressure on poor people to murder their babies in service to the dominating society.

What a completely irresponsible thing to say. No one is forcing anyone to engage in unprotected sex. Not Planned Parenthood. Not Sanger. Not liberals, and not Democrats. No one. It is a choice. We are all responsible for our choices. Blaming others for decisions we make is childish and unreasonable.

Having unprotected sex is a choice. And as such, responsibility is 100% completely the responsibility of the parties engaged in such an act. Please, do explain how Planned Parenthood made anyone engage in unprotected sex.

If you can't, then you can't show Planned Parenthood is at fault.

The mothers do not have a fair choice and they do not have a free choice, and so it is unjust to make them into more of a victim of the evil that is being done to them.

You can only assert this as true if you can show that the mothers had no choice but to have unprotected sex.

Good luck.

The abortion industry is like a clever lion roaming around seeking whom it may devour.

Riiiiight. Please show how Planned Parenthood makes people have sex.

Otherwise, this is just another baseless assertion.

[JP Cusick]

If you have data or evidence that shows today that Planned Parenthood is a racist organization, I'd love to see it.

I already demonstrated that in the link that I provided.

But the racist aspect is just getting sidetracked away from the point that abortions are to murder babies, and targeting black babies does not nullify the reality that the abortion industry will murder babies who are white or brown or of any status.

I am not going to argue that the black lives matter more than others.

Having unprotected sex is a choice.

Please, do explain how Planned Parenthood made anyone engage in unprotected sex.

There is nothing wrong about having unprotected sex because that is normal and natural.

Planned Parenthood is pushing the unnormal and unnatural concept of protected sex and abortion to prevent the natural and normal conception and birth of live babies.

Your ridiculous claim that = Planned Parenthood would not made anyone engage in unprotected sex - is absurd, because that hate group called "Planned Parenthood" is doing the exact opposite as you argue, because PP is trying to force everyone to have protected sex to stop the creation of babies, and for those who do not then PP will provide the abortion to murder the babies.

[Bust Nak]

his is another example of how the poisoned knowledge of "good and bad" does harm to people...

We've been thought this before. It's just semantics. Reducing pregnancy is the right thing given the babies are unwanted.

You may be blessed that you as a baby were not deemed to be unwanted, and then to be executed as unwanted.

My parents did not want me as another mouth to feed, but they were Catholics who did not believe in having an abortion, so I did not get executed.

Interesting, would you say you were lucky to not be executed, or unlucky because you were unwanted?

Yet here you judge a baby being unwanted as a good thing, and to murder the baby by abortion to be a good thing too.

No, I meant judging a baby being unwanted as a right thing, and to murder the baby by abortion to be a right thing too.

I view abortion as like loosing a tooth, because I lost one of my teeth getting it pulled out, and the dental procedure hurt and I paid the Dentist well to pull out my tooth, and I thanked the Dentist for doing that job, but I still regret loosing my tooth as I lost a part of my body and that is sad.

It seems you are emotionally attached to your teeth, I don't know what to say to that. People don't usually care that much about teeth.

So too if the life of the mother is in danger and the baby is medically necessary to be aborted - then still why do we not see this as a loss? as a sad event?

Because the baby wasn't unwanted in some cases.

that the baby died so the Mom can live - so can not we at least view the aborted babies as a sad and unhappy thing to do...

We do view it as sad and unhappy, when it is sad and unhappy. We view as meh, just a medical procedure, when it is meh, just a medical procedure.

instead of pretending that the abortion industry is doing some wonderful service by murdering the babies.

There is no need to pretend, the abortion industry is doing some wonderful service, even in those instances of sad, unhappy abortions.

I mourn my lost tooth - but people celebrate the abortion (the loss) of the babies.

Only when it is the babies are unwanted.

White people have more money and more options, so even if abortions were illegal then the whites still have the option to seek out an abortion by various avenues, and it has always been that way... And the black population just happens to dominate the lower classes of the USA.

Exactly, therefore the implication of racism is unwarranted.

Of course eugenics is based on race and skin color, and on so much more.

The blue eyed and blond haired white baby is always the specialty of the eugenics.

Not according to Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood. You can accuse her of supporting eugenics, but not racism.

[KenRU]

If you have data or evidence that shows today that Planned Parenthood is a racist organization, I'd love to see it.

I already demonstrated that in the link that I provided.

But the racist aspect is just getting sidetracked away from the point that abortions are to murder babies, and targeting black babies does not nullify the reality that the abortion industry will murder babies who are white or brown or of any status.

I am not going to argue that the black lives matter more than others.

Having unprotected sex is a choice.

Please, do explain how Planned Parenthood made anyone engage in unprotected sex.

There is nothing wrong about having unprotected sex because that is normal and natural.

Planned Parenthood is pushing the unnormal and unnatural concept of protected sex and abortion to prevent the natural and normal conception and birth of live babies.

Your ridiculous claim that = Planned Parenthood would not made anyone engage in unprotected sex - is absurd, because that hate group called "Planned Parenthood" is doing the exact opposite as you argue, because PP is trying to force everyone to have protected sex to stop the creation of babies, and for those who do not then PP will provide the abortion to murder the babies.

Nothing you say here dissolves the responsibility that people have for engaging in unprotected sex and having unplanned babies. And that is the major (by far) cause of abortions. Nothing else. The rest is a diversion, or blame-shifting.

You don't like the idea of protected sex or think it is unnatural? Then that kind of archaic thinking is going to result in unplanned babies. Shocker. Denial or ignorance is no excuse. But discouraging protected sex is worse than being ignorant. It is cruel and dangerous.

If your philosophy condemns protected sex then your philosophy is part of the problem you cite. Sex Ed and contraceptive methods are the only recourse for those who do not want to risk a pregnancy.

The only thing absurd here is your argument that protected sex is unnatural or wrong. It is absurd because that kind of ignorant thinking results in more unwanted babies and forces the parents to consider abortions in the first place.

Seems to me that your philosophy is part of the very problem you are railing against.

[JP Cusick]

We've been thought this before. It's just semantics. Reducing pregnancy is the right thing given the babies are unwanted.

It is semantics when you change the wording.

Reducing pregnancy is not the same as the mass murder of babies by abortions.

And the babies being unwanted is the barbaric view, because it is murder for being unwanted, and yet there are many other people and organizations who do want the babies, they will adopt the unwanted and provide for the unwanted and they will voluntarily save the unwanted from those who intend to murder babies for such a despicable reason.

It is playing God (and playing Nazi) to pick and choose like that = that you want this one so this one may live, and this one you do not want so those babies go to the executioners.

And we know that richer babies are more wanted, while the babies of poorer people are the more unwanted, so the wants and unwanted are usually distinguished just by the financial status.

Interesting, would you say you were lucky to not be executed, or unlucky because you were unwanted?

I would say both.

Do you see your self as lucky because you were wanted?

It seems you are emotionally attached to your teeth, I don't know what to say to that. People don't usually care that much about teeth.

Valuing our own teeth, just as our own baby, is a part of our self esteem being healthy.

When people do not value their self then their body parts have the same value.

Healthy self esteem comes from having a healthy relationship with the Father God because we are all children of God.

Science and evolution and Atheism brainwashes people into seeing their self as a piece of meat, and so to murder their baby and flush it down a toilet is an expression of their own self esteem. FYI.

Because the baby wasn't unwanted in some cases.

Only when it is the babies are unwanted.

It is to be noted that the vast majority of abortions are done just for convenience and arbitrary and capricious reasons as like the petty emotion of wanting and not wanting, and thereby the social and institutional pressure is effective in twisting immature emotions into the trap of abortions.

It is very rare that the mother's life is in danger, and very rare for the abortion to be done after rape or incest, and instead millions of babies are murdered here in the USA based on petty reasoning and flippant emotions.

[Bust Nak]

Reducing pregnancy is not the same as the mass murder of babies by abortions.

That was the point, you were the one equating it.

And the babies being unwanted is the barbaric view, because it is murder for being unwanted, and yet there are many other people and organizations who do want the babies, they will adopt the unwanted and provide for the unwanted and they will voluntarily save the unwanted from those who intend to murder babies for such a despicable reason.

That once again, was the point. Reducing pregnancy will reduce the amount "murdered babies."

It is playing God (and playing Nazi) to pick and choose like that = that you want this one so this one may live, and this one you do not want so those babies go to the executioners.

That's the right thing to do.

And we know that richer babies are more wanted, while the babies of poorer people are the more unwanted, so the wants and unwanted are usually distinguished just by the financial status.

And that's one of my other point - based financial status, not race.

Do you see your self as lucky because you were wanted?

No, but not unlucky either. It's just something that happened.

Valuing our own teeth, just as our own baby, is a part of our self esteem being healthy.

Not when it is aching and needs taken out, or is milk teeth that will be replace by adult teeth.

When people do not value their self then their body parts have the same value.

Have you ever had a hair cut by the way? Trimmed finger nail? Where is this going to stop?

Science and evolution and Atheism brainwashes people into seeing their self as a piece of meat, and so to murder their baby and flush it down a toilet is an expression of their own self esteem. FYI.

Nah, that's what's gonna happen when you make abortion difficult to access.

It is to be noted that the vast majority of abortions are done just for convenience... It is very rare that the mother's life is in danger...

I know that, hence my choice of words - unwanted babies.

[JP Cusick]

That once again, was the point. Reducing pregnancy will reduce the amount "murdered babies."

Contraception is just murdering babies by other means.

Your point is based on the hatred of babies, as in you see a nicer way to exterminate the unwanted babies.

The action is an expression of hatred - whether you feel the emotion or not.

Do you see your self as lucky because you were wanted?

No, but not unlucky either. It's just something that happened.

That is a spineless answer.

It is based on your own previous words and questions to me.

You being wanted means that you did not get murdered by abortion so do you see that as you being lucky?

If you were not wanted then you would get to die - that is the point of the questions.

I know that, hence my choice of words - unwanted babies.

The problem is that you are using "wanted and unwanted" as an acceptable standard and criteria for killing a baby.

It is not based on health or on a need, it is not based on right or wrong, but that the life of the babies are based on the flippant whims of being wanted or unwanted at the time.

That is morally bankrupt.

[Bust Nak]

Contraception is just murdering babies by other means.

What is this? Every sperm is sacred?

Your point is based on the hatred of babies, as in you see a nicer way to exterminate the unwanted babies.

The action is an expression of hatred - whether you feel the emotion or not.

That made no sense since hatred is an emotion.

That is a spineless answer.

It's the truth though.

It is based on your own previous words and questions to me.

You being wanted means that you did not get murdered by abortion so do you see that as you being lucky?

The answer is still no.

If you were not wanted then you would get to die - that is the point of the questions.

I know that, but I don't feel lucky.

The problem is that you are using "wanted and unwanted" as an acceptable standard and criteria for killing a baby.

How is that a problem? It is the right standard and criteria for killing a baby.

It is not based on health or on a need, it is not based on right or wrong, but that the life of the babies are based on the flippant whims of being wanted or unwanted at the time.

But it is based on right or wrong.

[Peter]

Many Christians take the stance that from the moment of conception an embryo/zygote/whatever has become a human life and has "human life value". Aborting it would be wrong because its "human life value" outweighs the issues of the woman who has to go through the pregnancy.

Is this logical? Can you be an atheist and still place "human life value" on an embryo? Can you be an atheist and be pro-life?

(pro-life is the politically neutral term for being against abortion in all or most cases).

I believe conception results in a human life and it's value grows as it reaches adulthood then diminishes as it enters old age. Personally I'm of the opinion that parents should be able to legally abort their offspring until they get a job and leave the home.

[JP Cusick]

Personally I'm of the opinion that parents should be able to legally abort their offspring until they get a job and leave the home.

That is one of the benefits of being an Atheist and a non believer and for being morally bankrupt.

Because then the murder of babies can be justified without considering any of those conditions from a God who declares value for those same babies.