Shouldn't the Christian Infighting be Over?

[POI]

1213 made an excellent point in post 556 of this thread (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39327&start=550). He stated:

"People have enough understanding to get it and if someone thinks he doesn't have it, he can always ask wisdom from God to understand it correctly.".

Followed by the given Bible verse to back up his claim (i.e.):

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

******************

Well, some here claim to have such communication with "the almighty."

For debate: If the above verse is true, as well as Christians whose claims also comport with the Biblical claim, then why do Christians not know some Biblical answers? Case/point, I recently asked about the topic of Genesis being literal, vs. not? The Christian, who answered thus far, claims (paraphrased) -- they cannot know for sure, because the author is dead. Why wouldn't this individual simply ask for wisdom, in accordance with the Bible's claim?

Reference (viewtopic.php?t=41373). Post #16.

[William]

[Replying to POI in post #33]

Okay - going along with that, is your overall concern whether or not to use the bible literally, or just this particular verse from the bible.

My concern in this topic is to investigate what I asked in this topic. If the topic is not clear, please tell me where you are still not clear?

Re that, what about the particular verse convinces you that (if taken literally) this is some type of key to Christians getting on and agreeing together?

Because they all have a direct lifeline in which unbelievers do not have. You guys can all ask and would presumably get the same answer. But the fact that some of you might ask, and still get differing answers, is what raises my eyebrow

Case/point, 1213 and you likely do not agree. And I'm sure if many others engaged accordingly, per the advice of 1213, there would still be disagreement. This likely renders James 1 false.

So, if 1213 and you use the same tools, and get differing answers, while asking 'the father', then your tool is jacked. Try a different tool.

From my own point of view, what you are describing is part of the overall ruleset of the game play we players are participating in.

In that, The Game is a long way from being "over".

Thus, while your eyebrow may be raised, I would not regard that as a significant indication anything is majorly wrong that individuals "disagree" with one another.
I myself think that I do not align perfectly with any contributors to the Board be they Supernaturalists or Materialists and while there are those identifying as "Christians" who have yet to come to a place of total agreement, this does not force me to conclude that I am "right" and they are "wrong" because we are altogether (Christians and non-Christians) working things out (or not) and the only thing which prevents us (all) from being on the same page is any resistance we have with one another re our positions on the fact of our shared existence and what it means to each of us.

Over and above that dynamic, is the Rule Set The Father designed into The Game.

Re "tools being used" most Christians and I differ in regard to the Bible and its place in the scheme of things, for reasons I have given in the other thread we (you and I) are currently interacting in.

While your observations may well be relevant, I disagree that The Father should be the one to blame for the lack of agreement Christians (and people in general) may have re the various interpretations of biblical (or any other) material. As I mentioned in the other thread, my position on biblical script is that it is not the medium necessary for the individual to connect and grow a relationship with The Father, so I find that to be beside the point and not worth arguing over.

Although, a past version of my self used to think it was important (in the scheme of things) to argue such, that version came to realize it (the Bible) isn't the medium set up in order to establish relationship between The Father and The Sons, and consequently isn't important to that end, so needn't be argued over/about.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #33]

Okay - going along with that, is your overall concern whether or not to use the bible literally, or just this particular verse from the bible.

My concern in this topic is to investigate what I asked in this topic. If the topic is not clear, please tell me where you are still not clear?

Re that, what about the particular verse convinces you that (if taken literally) this is some type of key to Christians getting on and agreeing together?

Because they all have a direct lifeline in which unbelievers do not have. You guys can all ask and would presumably get the same answer. But the fact that some of you might ask, and still get differing answers, is what raises my eyebrow

Case/point, 1213 and you likely do not agree. And I'm sure if many others engaged accordingly, per the advice of 1213, there would still be disagreement. This likely renders James 1 false.

So, if 1213 and you use the same tools, and get differing answers, while asking 'the father', then your tool is jacked. Try a different tool.

From my own point of view, what you are describing is part of the overall ruleset of the game play we players are participating in.

In that, The Game is a long way from being "over".

Thus, while your eyebrow may be raised, I would not regard that as a significant indication anything is majorly wrong that individuals "disagree" with one another.
I myself think that I do not align perfectly with any contributors to the Board be they Supernaturalists or Materialists and while there are those identifying as "Christians" who have yet to come to a place of total agreement, this does not force me to conclude that I am "right" and they are "wrong" because we are altogether (Christians and non-Christians) working things out (or not) and the only thing which prevents us (all) from being on the same page is any resistance we have with one another re our positions on the fact of our shared existence and what it means to each of us.

Over and above that dynamic, is the Rule Set The Father designed into The Game.

Re "tools being used" most Christians and I differ in regard to the Bible and its place in the scheme of things, for reasons I have given in the other thread we (you and I) are currently interacting in.

While your observations may well be relevant, I disagree that The Father should be the one to blame for the lack of agreement Christians (and people in general) may have re the various interpretations of biblical (or any other) material. As I mentioned in the other thread, my position on biblical script is that it is not the medium necessary for the individual to connect and grow a relationship with The Father, so I find that to be beside the point and not worth arguing over.

Although, a past version of my self used to think it was important (in the scheme of things) to argue such, that version came to realize it (the Bible) isn't the medium set up in order to establish relationship between The Father and The Sons, and consequently isn't important to that end, so needn't be argued over/about.

P1) Does 'the father' exist? (that's the claim)
P2) Does 'the father's' communication over-power and/or supersede all false teachings and also evil? (that's the claim)
P3) Does 'the father' communicate with humans? (that's the claim)
P4) Is 'the father' the truth? (that's the claim)
P5) Is 'the father' always truthful? (that's the claim)
P6) Can 'the father' communicate his message clearly, as to assure the recipient understands correctly? (that's the claim)
P7) Recipients to claims from 'the father' conflict with one another (?)

What is the most likely conclusion?

a) The said "father" does not exist in reality
b) I do not yet see an option b), or beyond? Please enlighten me.

[TRANSPONDER]

Reminds me of the Problem of Evil yet again. Either God is a nasty piece of work and never mind the claims that he is the beloved leader, perfect and good, or he doesn't exist or at least act in any discernible way, and the world looks like it would if there was no god doing anything.

[boatsnguitars]

From my own point of view, what you are describing is part of the overall ruleset of the game play we players are participating in.

In that, The Game is a long way from being "over".

Thus, while your eyebrow may be raised, I would not regard that as a significant indication anything is majorly wrong that individuals "disagree" with one another.
I myself think that I do not align perfectly with any contributors to the Board be they Supernaturalists or Materialists and while there are those identifying as "Christians" who have yet to come to a place of total agreement, this does not force me to conclude that I am "right" and they are "wrong" because we are altogether (Christians and non-Christians) working things out (or not) and the only thing which prevents us (all) from being on the same page is any resistance we have with one another re our positions on the fact of our shared existence and what it means to each of us.

Over and above that dynamic, is the Rule Set The Father designed into The Game.

Re "tools being used" most Christians and I differ in regard to the Bible and its place in the scheme of things, for reasons I have given in the other thread we (you and I) are currently interacting in.

While your observations may well be relevant, I disagree that The Father should be the one to blame for the lack of agreement Christians (and people in general) may have re the various interpretations of biblical (or any other) material. As I mentioned in the other thread, my position on biblical script is that it is not the medium necessary for the individual to connect and grow a relationship with The Father, so I find that to be beside the point and not worth arguing over.

Although, a past version of my self used to think it was important (in the scheme of things) to argue such, that version came to realize it (the Bible) isn't the medium set up in order to establish relationship between The Father and The Sons, and consequently isn't important to that end, so needn't be argued over/about.

I believe this sentiment from all spiritual seekers if they spent a few seconds on other religions than Christianity and a smattering of some New Age influences.
I don't see people searching, I see them trying to convince themselves and others that their feeling about the Life, the Universe and Everything is basically true but for a few details.
It appears everyone is arguing for a belief system they came upon by age 12 and simply use bigger words to explain it.

Sure, we all feel more advanced, more enlightened, but are we really? What, besides scientific things, have we come to really know about it all?

The only difference seems to be that Religionists have simply announced that they've stopped searching and just want it all to end.

[TRANSPONDER]

Sorta...I would put it, they would like atheists (and other doubters and questioners) to shut up an go away. They are happy to fight with other dogmas and religions (which they would sooner ignore but their fingers twitch when they start being a Threat) so long as the authority of the Bible and the Faith is not challenged.

Those goldarn Aytheeists do challenge and that's what they can't stand.

[William]

[Replying to POI in post #33]

Okay - going along with that, is your overall concern whether or not to use the bible literally, or just this particular verse from the bible.

My concern in this topic is to investigate what I asked in this topic. If the topic is not clear, please tell me where you are still not clear?

Re that, what about the particular verse convinces you that (if taken literally) this is some type of key to Christians getting on and agreeing together?

Because they all have a direct lifeline in which unbelievers do not have. You guys can all ask and would presumably get the same answer. But the fact that some of you might ask, and still get differing answers, is what raises my eyebrow

Case/point, 1213 and you likely do not agree. And I'm sure if many others engaged accordingly, per the advice of 1213, there would still be disagreement. This likely renders James 1 false.

So, if 1213 and you use the same tools, and get differing answers, while asking 'the father', then your tool is jacked. Try a different tool.

From my own point of view, what you are describing is part of the overall ruleset of the game play we players are participating in.

In that, The Game is a long way from being "over".

Thus, while your eyebrow may be raised, I would not regard that as a significant indication anything is majorly wrong that individuals "disagree" with one another.
I myself think that I do not align perfectly with any contributors to the Board be they Supernaturalists or Materialists and while there are those identifying as "Christians" who have yet to come to a place of total agreement, this does not force me to conclude that I am "right" and they are "wrong" because we are altogether (Christians and non-Christians) working things out (or not) and the only thing which prevents us (all) from being on the same page is any resistance we have with one another re our positions on the fact of our shared existence and what it means to each of us.

Over and above that dynamic, is the Rule Set The Father designed into The Game.

Re "tools being used" most Christians and I differ in regard to the Bible and its place in the scheme of things, for reasons I have given in the other thread we (you and I) are currently interacting in.

While your observations may well be relevant, I disagree that The Father should be the one to blame for the lack of agreement Christians (and people in general) may have re the various interpretations of biblical (or any other) material. As I mentioned in the other thread, my position on biblical script is that it is not the medium necessary for the individual to connect and grow a relationship with The Father, so I find that to be beside the point and not worth arguing over.

Although, a past version of my self used to think it was important (in the scheme of things) to argue such, that version came to realize it (the Bible) isn't the medium set up in order to establish relationship between The Father and The Sons, and consequently isn't important to that end, so needn't be argued over/about.

P1) Does 'the father' exist? (that's the claim)
P2) Does 'the father's' communication over-power and/or supersede all false teachings and also evil? (that's the claim)
P3) Does 'the father' communicate with humans? (that's the claim)
P4) Is 'the father' the truth? (that's the claim)
P5) Is 'the father' always truthful? (that's the claim)
P6) Can 'the father' communicate his message clearly, as to assure the recipient understands correctly? (that's the claim)
P7) Recipients to claims from 'the father' conflict with one another (?)

What is the most likely conclusion?

a) The said "father" does not exist in reality
b) I do not yet see an option b), or beyond? Please enlighten me.

P1) The rule-set already mentioned (numerous times in this thread) has it that the only way for an individual human personality to find the answer is to follow the rules and draw closer to The Father through that method.
P2) The rule-set already mentioned (numerous times in this thread) has it that the only way for an individual human personality to find the answer is to follow the rules and draw closer to The Father through that method.
P3) The rule-set already mentioned (numerous times in this thread) has it that the only way for an individual human personality to find the answer is to follow the rules and draw closer to The Father through that method.
P4) The rule-set already mentioned (numerous times in this thread) has it that the only way for an individual human personality to find the answer is to follow the rules and draw closer to The Father through that method.
P5) The rule-set already mentioned (numerous times in this thread) has it that the only way for an individual human personality to find the answer is to follow the rules and draw closer to The Father through that method.
P6) The rule-set already mentioned (numerous times in this thread) has it that the only way for an individual human personality to find the answer is to follow the rules and draw closer to The Father through that method.
(Repetition for emphasis)

I think too, that you may also be misinformed as to my position on these matters. I identify my position as being Agnostic (as I understand Agnosticism), not Theist nor Materialist.
I think most active Christians on this board know this of me, and certainly know that I do not identify as a Christian, so some catching up on your part may be necessary in relation to some/much of the critique you are offering in argument to my own critiquing of your arguments, too avoid tangents/eventual non-communication between us.

[POI]

[Replying to William in post #46]

Who in the heck you are talking to then?

[William]

[Replying to William in post #46]

Who in the heck you are talking to then?

When communicating with intelligence, it isn't so much "who" but rather "what is being communicated" that is the question of greater importance.

"Who" comes across of course, (attitude et al) but it is what is being messaged which is either of value, or not so much/not at all and the value of that is left to the individual personalities discretion (naturally enough).

As one example, Chat GPT. When one is interacting with GPT, one is receiving intelligent data but one is not interacting with a "who" so much as one is interacting with a number of anonymous human beings (sentient information) from which the machine has been trained on.

Putting a name to "who" is simply engaging with the narration being generated to give the reader a sense of two minds interacting - in these cases - The Father and The Son.

[POI]

[Replying to William in post #46]

Who in the heck you are talking to then?

When communicating with intelligence, it isn't so much "who" but rather "what is being communicated" that is the question of greater importance.

"Who" comes across of course, (attitude et al) but it is what is being messaged which is either of value, or not so much/not at all and the value of that is left to the individual personalities discretion (naturally enough).

As one example, Chat GPT. When one is interacting with GPT, one is receiving intelligent data but one is not interacting with a "who" so much as one is interacting with a number of anonymous human beings (sentient information) from which the machine has been trained on.

Putting a name to "who" is simply engaging with the narration being generated to give the reader a sense of two minds interacting - in these cases - The Father and The Son.

No, seriously? Are you speaking or getting your information from someone or something else, or are you speaking to or getting your information by yourself alone? If it is the former, I would like to know from who or what?

[1213]

Then why the doctrinal disagreements, apart from infighting over other matters? Since you must think your 'take'is the one following the 'pure' message, and you argued wicked disinformation by others teaching different doctrines, it looks like you are saying that you are the only one that really knows what the Bible says,...

Everyone who can read, can know what the Bible really says.