Does belief in your God require a sacrifice?

[daedalus 2.0]

McCulloch was debating with a typical Xian and mentioned that Jesus required a sacrifice to live the life He prescribed.

Oddly, Xian's often use Pascal's Wager to justify their belief. (So do Muslims and Hindu's, btw)

The thing is, if Jesus required a sacrifice, and people use Pascals Wager, then they believe they are sacrificing something to believe in something they can only explain as "faith".

If they are sacrificing something, then they are losing something in this life for something undefined and unverifiable later. Now, I remember being Xian and thinking "Oh, no, I'm not losing, I'm gaining something in this life, too! The companionship of Jesus!"

Of course, this was religious bs, but moreso, it wasn't sacrificing, then, was it!

It was a calculated effort to gain something in this life and "the next". So what was I sacrificing?


OK, so the others will say: you aren't required to sacrifice, Jesus did it for you....

Well, not true. As a Xian (or other religionist) you are required to live a certain way: no pork, no pre-marital sex, no sin, no lusting, no killing, etc. Of course, we all make sacrifices (personally, I refrain from bad logic as my "faith" prescribes, oh, and I don't kill because my "religion" thinks it really uncool.).

I make the sacrifices because I know it will be better for me and society. A Religionist, presumably, does it to find favor: they do it selfishly.

So, what is the sacrifice? And if none, why prescribe a way to live in a religion in the first place?

[McCulloch]

Jesus said the Father was "in" Him, and He was "in" the Father.

What does this mean? I cannot be taken literally. If X is in Y then Y cannot be in X.

Yet, the Father spoke over Jesus from heaven, while Jesus stood in the water. Indeed, neither the Father God nor the Holy Spirit ever became a human like Jesus did, and neither were of man. The only relationship of man is that man was made after the image and likeness of the triune Godhead.

God is a logical impossibility of one being with three persons, eternal, all powerful, unchanging and an invisible spirit being. Humans are single persons, temporary, limited power, changeable and visible tangible animals. Saying that humans are made in the image and likeness of the triune Godhead is just nonsense.

The law of the tree was given to Adam, so he had no excuse. His violation was both a transgression and a sin. The woman was beguiled. From then on the weight of the sin was placed on Adam by God, though the woman would acquire limited punishment in child-bearing but with a promise of a final victory over sin through the seed of the woman.

For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Gods' justice is obviously higher than mans' concept.

Actually, if the Bible is to be believed, God's justice is almost completely unrecognizable compared to the human idea of justice. Why even use the same word?

[OnceConvinced]

Sacrifice goes all the way back to Abel and Cain, each bringing offerings to worship God. Abel's involved the shedding of blood, an animal yielding its life, it's owner yielding that life, and that body. That animal represented something given while alive, while Cain's offering was of dead substance, of little value to him or God since Cain would have retained the larger source of that grain far greater in substance than what was yielded up, keeping behind him a field of life and a tiny commitment towards God. Abel gave a personal high price while Cain gave something cheap and common without blood, something already dead. The blood indicated a commitment that reached out of life into death with no return to life. There remained no seed in the offered animal.

Now I have a problem with this. Do you really think that God would be so petty? Also do you have any idea how much work there is involved in growing top quality vegetables? I would be prepared to say that Cain's work involved a lot more effort and time on his part than Abel's work.

You say that Cain's sacrifice was of little value to God. Why would Abel's blood sacrifice be any more valuable? What good is a dead anything for God?

Was Abel's sacrifice really at such a high price? Supposedly he had many more breeding stock available to replenish any he sacrificed.

The blood sacrifice was a very symbolic thing, so to say it was more valuable to God is bizarre. The reason for the sacrifice was to atone for sins, sins which God is quite capable of forgiving without sacrifices. As you pretty much admit in your last paragraph where you say God requires obedience and mercy rather than sacrifice.

This whole idea of blood sacrifices seems rather ludicrous to me now as an ex-Christian. Which is why I started this thread:
Why does sin require the death penalty?

[InTheFlesh]

The teachings about God being 3 "persons" is false.
This false doctrine is taught by most religions.
God is ONE.
Jesus is LORD!

We have body, soul and spirit
are we 3 "persons"?
Were we not made in the image of God?
Just like we are the image of our person,
Jesus is the image of the invisible God!
God is ONE, not 3.

[centauri]

...Abram set the standard per God's instructions, so God then stepped into the event at Calvary.

centauri:
According to the instructions from God as laid down in the "Old" Testament, where are humans on the list of animals approved of as sacrifices for sin?

God never included man in any list of animals.

A human isn't a valid sin sacrifice according to the law of God.

WS:
Jesus was God in the flesh, having laid aside His privilege in heaven, being born a man on earth, subject to the law of Moses, to finish what Abram initiated.

centauri:
Jesus claimed to have a God, even after he was ascended.
According to God's definitions of himself, he is not a man nor a son of man.

Jesus said the Father was "in" Him, and He was "in" the Father. Yet, the Father spoke over Jesus from heaven, while Jesus stood in the water. Indeed, neither the Father God nor the Holy Spirit ever became a human like Jesus did, and neither were of man. The only relationship of man is that man was made after the image and likeness of the triune Godhead.

That doesn't do much to establish that Jesus was God, when Jesus declared that he had a God, and it wasn't himself.
God already established that he was not a man nor a son of man.

WS:
Even his blood line was not of Adam whose blood was cursed through sin. He came by the seed of the woman, not of a man, escaping the de jure curse of death on all men having the blood of Adam.

centauri:
Both Adam and Eve "sinned" and it was Eve that sinned first.
Women are just as capable of passing on a "blood" curse as men are.

The law of the tree was given to Adam, so he had no excuse. His violation was both a transgression and a sin. The woman was beguiled. From then on the weight of the sin was placed on Adam by God, though the woman would acquire limited punishment in child-bearing but with a promise of a final victory over sin through the seed of the woman.

Women are considered sinners along with men.
The promise was that there would be enmity between a serpent and humans.

WS:
The highest of justice prevented Jesus from carrying the burden of all mankind's sin load in hell forever as any man not in Christ will do eternally. Jesus was then permitted to leave hell, leave the sin burden behind in the upper part called Paradise, leading a host of other departed saints back up through their graves. appearing to many witnesses. He was "sprung" from a prison designed for sinners. Since Jesus took upon Himself all sin of men it was unjust to punish Him for sin.

centauri:
Justice is relative.
According to God's instructions, each person saves themselves, there is no one size fits all human sacrifice that they must believe in.

Gods' justice is obviously higher than mans' concept.

It's not obvious at all, it's subjective.

There are no instructions in the Bible for anyone to save himself, except some misguided advice from Job's friends.

Each person dies for their own sin and redeems themselves through proper action.
The instructions are quite clear and are found in Ezek 18.

[Word_Swordsman]

Jesus said the Father was "in" Him, and He was "in" the Father.

What does this mean? I cannot be taken literally. If X is in Y then Y cannot be in X.

Fill a glass with water then add to it a few ounces of pure alcohol. You will discover the glass will not overflow as expected. Is the water in the alcohol, or the alcohol in the water? Well, each is in the other, molecules filling spaces between other molecules.

However, that natural phenomenon doesn't quite capture the spiritual sense Jesus meant. I was a career wetlands/wildlife management forester. It was said of me I was apparently "married" to my passion at work. I was for too long "one" with my work, so completely immersed in it I neglected my children, not taking vacations, always taking extra hours, preferring to get on the next plane to another project rather than going home for more than a couple of days a month. I was "in" my work and it was "in" me, practically inseparable one from the other. Jesus was so totally immersed in the Father and His words He could not be counted as a sole self existent human like a worldly man, and although claiming a lofty position, could do nothing of Himself except what he saw the Father do. He didn't send Himself from heaven, but the Father did.

John 5:19-23 "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. [20] For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. [21] For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. [22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;"
John 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."

Yet, the Father spoke over Jesus from heaven, while Jesus stood in the water. Indeed, neither the Father God nor the Holy Spirit ever became a human like Jesus did, and neither were of man. The only relationship of man is that man was made after the image and likeness of the triune Godhead.

God is a logical impossibility of one being with three persons, eternal, all powerful, unchanging and an invisible spirit being. Humans are single persons, temporary, limited power, changeable and visible tangible animals. Saying that humans are made in the image and likeness of the triune Godhead is just nonsense.

In your estimation that might be so, but it is Bible. There are many things about God, or any deity man might try to invent, that defy human reasoning. Going against human reasoning doesn't make God's claims impossible. Adam, in the Garden, had only one known prohibition, set up to have dominion of all the earth. Even today some people believe man is his own god, should be capable of solving all of earth's problems. What they don't realize is that power was God's original intent, and that intent remains on the table for men to take up through Jesus Christ. Man on his own failed long ago and continued to fail, and will always fail to rise to his possibilities without Christ in him. Satan lost his right to that power (to Jesus) that belonged to man all along, but still uses distortions of truth to divide men, even Christian against Christian, to the point of not being able to come together to effect a perfect world. In Christ any man or woman has the right to claim equality with the Son of God, restored to a condition of perfection. We are each made a little lower than angles in position, but in Christ we are fellow heirs to all that Jesus took back up when He returned to heaven. So it is those in Christ are called brothers of Jesus, children of God.

The law of the tree was given to Adam, so he had no excuse. His violation was both a transgression and a sin. The woman was beguiled. From then on the weight of the sin was placed on Adam by God, though the woman would acquire limited punishment in child-bearing but with a promise of a final victory over sin through the seed of the woman.

For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Gods' justice is obviously higher than mans' concept.

Actually, if the Bible is to be believed, God's justice is almost completely unrecognizable compared to the human idea of justice. Why even use the same word?

Fallen sinful man distorts holy justice unless having the "mind of" Christ in him.

[McCulloch]

Jesus said the Father was "in" Him, and He was "in" the Father.

What does this mean? I cannot be taken literally. If X is in Y then Y cannot be in X.

Fill a glass with water then add to it a few ounces of pure alcohol. You will discover the glass will not overflow as expected. Is the water in the alcohol, or the alcohol in the water? Well, each is in the other, molecules filling spaces between other molecules. However, that natural phenomenon doesn't quite capture the spiritual sense Jesus meant.

The water is mixed with the alcohol. However, since your analogy by your own admission does not capture the spiritual sense of this divine illogical truth, why don't you try again? Are you claiming that Jesus is a mixture of Divine Spirit and Human? That the Father is also a mixture? I will take you inability to find a comprehensible explanation as an admission that it is a mystery beyond human comprehension.

Jesus was so totally immersed in the Father and His words He could not be counted as a sole self existent human like a worldly man, and although claiming a lofty position, could do nothing of Himself except what he saw the Father do. He didn't send Himself from heaven, but the Father did.

Is that to say that he was not making divine claims about himself with this statement, but simply referring to his overwhelming dedication to his spiritual father?

God is a logical impossibility of one being with three persons, eternal, all powerful, unchanging and an invisible spirit being. Humans are single persons, temporary, limited power, changeable and visible tangible animals. Saying that humans are made in the image and likeness of the triune Godhead is just nonsense.

In your estimation that might be so, but it is Bible.

It is in the Bible, therefore it is not nonsense!

There are many things about God, or any deity man might try to invent, that defy human reasoning.

Yes, there are many examples of the JCI God deceiving humans. In many cases, one does have to wonder why.

Going against human reasoning doesn't make God's claims impossible.

Human reasoning is all that we have. If we give up on human reasoning, we become mindless.

In Christ any man or woman has the right to claim equality with the Son of God, restored to a condition of perfection.

Except the women. The man is the head of the woman as Christ is the head of the Church.

Gods' justice is obviously higher than mans' concept.

Actually, if the Bible is to be believed, God's justice is almost completely unrecognizable compared to the human idea of justice. Why even use the same word?

Fallen sinful man distorts holy justice unless having the "mind of" Christ in him.

Excuse me for making this accusation, but I cannot tell the difference between "Fallen sinful man [read atheists and other heathens] distort holy justice without having the mind of Christ" and "We're just making stuff up and if you don't believe it or understand it, it must be because you have not been given understanding from the magic source."

What is this holy justice and how is it different from human justice? I understand that with human justice, there is a responsibly to attempt to protect vulnerable innocents from grievous harm if it is within your power. This obviously is not an aspect of holy justice. Using human justice, the willing death of a substitute for a convicted felon does not count as justice. In holy justice, this is acceptable.

[Word_Swordsman]

A human isn't a valid sin sacrifice according to the law of God.

It is true a mortal human sacrifice alone would not please God. Jesus was an immortal man, subject only to physical death, both a son of man and Son of God. The sacrifice was both of a Person of God and a man with blood. God required that sacrifice of that ONE man Jesus, in so doing making that sacrifice acceptable to God.

WS:Jesus was God in the flesh, having laid aside His privilege in heaven, being born a man on earth, subject to the law of Moses, to finish what Abram initiated.

centauri: Jesus claimed to have a God, even after he was ascended.
According to God's definitions of himself, he is not a man nor a son of man.

Jesus declared He was in fact Son of God as well as son of man. Jesus never once claimed "a" god, but claimed the Father God was in Him, and He is the Father, that same God the Jews claimed.

WS: Jesus said the Father was "in" Him, and He was "in" the Father. Yet, the Father spoke over Jesus from heaven, while Jesus stood in the water. Indeed, neither the Father God nor the Holy Spirit ever became a human like Jesus did, and neither were of man. The only relationship of man is that man was made after the image and likeness of the triune Godhead.

C: That doesn't do much to establish that Jesus was God, when Jesus declared that he had a God, and it wasn't himself.
God already established that he was not a man nor a son of man.

I wrote today in another post Jesus claimed He was the I AM that knew Abraham while Abraham walked the earth, going further, that He was the I AM before Abraham was.

WS:
Even his blood line was not of Adam whose blood was cursed through sin. He came by the seed of the woman, not of a man, escaping the de jure curse of death on all men having the blood of Adam.

centauri:
Both Adam and Eve "sinned" and it was Eve that sinned first.
Women are just as capable of passing on a "blood" curse as men are.

It is not said of Eve that she sinned in the same sense Adam sinned. Adam was not beguiled, but deliberately chose to obey his wife instead of God. Eve was "beguiled". She was deluded by a lie and acted upon that seduction. Whether Adam picked the fruit on his own or took it from Eve's hand, his decision was classic sin. It is not said in the Bible that any curse came on the blood of the woman, but all the curse fell on that of Adam's seed.

WS: The law of the tree was given to Adam, so he had no excuse. His violation was both a transgression and a sin. The woman was beguiled. From then on the weight of the sin was placed on Adam by God, though the woman would acquire limited punishment in child-bearing but with a promise of a final victory over sin through the seed of the woman.

C: Women are considered sinners along with men.
The promise was that there would be enmity between a serpent and humans.

Yes, once sin was unleashed on earth both men and women choose to disobey God and are sinners. The promise you speak of was not between the devil and plural humans, but that one seed of the woman to come into the earth.

WS: The highest of justice prevented Jesus from carrying the burden of all mankind's sin load in hell forever as any man not in Christ will do eternally. Jesus was then permitted to leave hell, leave the sin burden behind in the upper part called Paradise, leading a host of other departed saints back up through their graves. appearing to many witnesses. He was "sprung" from a prison designed for sinners. Since Jesus took upon Himself all sin of men it was unjust to punish Him for sin.

centauri: Justice is relative.
According to God's instructions, each person saves themselves, there is no one size fits all human sacrifice that they must believe in.

Religions of men around earth require men and women to save themselves. The Bible is clear that all the law of the OT and the new covenant through Jesus aimed at salvation of humans through mercy and grace through faith. The Bible describes humans trying to save themselves as fools. If you were to go swimming and got two leg cramps, would you then save yourself from drowning? Most would perish. If you cannot so save yourself from a life threatening accident over which you have no control, how would you do so spiritually?

WS: God's justice is obviously higher than mans' concept.

C: It's not obvious at all, it's subjective.

How so?

WS: There are no instructions in the Bible for anyone to save himself, except some misguided advice from Job's friends.

C: Each person dies for their own sin and redeems themselves through proper action.
The instructions are quite clear and are found in Ezek 18.

You speak of some other religion not pertaining to the Bible. If you die how then will you perform any action? It is true each unsaved person dies in their own sins, but if it stops with that, the person is forever trapped in that sinful state. The sin issue must then be decided before death.

If you hang up on the initial proverb there in EZ 18 you would miss the whole point of the passage. The parable suggests fathers are responsible for their children's sins. If you read on you will see all men are individually accountable for themselves before God, and none will bear responsibility for another. A sinner will die over his own sin if left to himself with no hope of a savior. You lie you fry, not yur children! Shed the sin life, being found in Christ, live eternally with God, independently of the decisions of other family members.

[McCulloch]

It is true a mortal human sacrifice alone would not please God. Jesus was an immortal man, subject only to physical death, both a son of man and Son of God. The sacrifice was both of a Person of God and a man with blood. God required that sacrifice of that ONE man Jesus, in so doing making that sacrifice acceptable to God.

Why? How do you know?

Since Jesus took upon Himself all sin of men it was unjust to punish Him for sin.

How do you know what justice is? How can I know that what you say is valid? You claim that holy justice is not comprehensible to humans.

[daedalus 2.0]

A human isn't a valid sin sacrifice according to the law of God.

It is true a mortal human sacrifice alone would not please God. Jesus was an immortal man, subject only to physical death, both a son of man and Son of God. The sacrifice was both of a Person of God and a man with blood. God required that sacrifice of that ONE man Jesus, in so doing making that sacrifice acceptable to God.

This is the most confusing thing I've ever read.

1. A blood sacrifice of a Man was necessary by God.
2. A human isn't a valid sacrifice according to God
3. Jesus wasn't a Man: therefore didn't fulfill the sacrifice requirement
4. Jesus was a Man: therefore was against the law of God.

Aren't we all (according to Xianity) both blood and spirit? The thing that dies is the body. Jesus's body died: that Man part of him was what was sacrificed: the flesh/blood.

His spirit was left intact - therefore, he didn't die.

The more Xians explain it, the more it gets bizarre.

Here is my understanding. Humans have a body and soul. You can destroy the body by a nuclear blast but the soul remains. This would be true for any person AND Jesus.

The body is what makes us Men, the spirit is the spirit and is commanded unto the Spirit when we die. We are no longer men, but spirits, when we die.

This spirit was eternal before Jesus and after. The Spirit was able to go to Heaven/God before Jesus.

Why did God require that Jesus make a big show about shedding his meat husk? What difference did it make, especially considering Jesus was God?

(Allegedly).

[centauri]

A human isn't a valid sin sacrifice according to the law of God.

It is true a mortal human sacrifice alone would not please God. Jesus was an immortal man, subject only to physical death, both a son of man and Son of God. The sacrifice was both of a Person of God and a man with blood. God required that sacrifice of that ONE man Jesus, in so doing making that sacrifice acceptable to God.

Please cite the section in the law of God that proclaims any man, immortal or otherwise, is a valid sacrifice for sin.
Otherwise you're special pleading.

WS:Jesus was God in the flesh, having laid aside His privilege in heaven, being born a man on earth, subject to the law of Moses, to finish what Abram initiated.

centauri: Jesus claimed to have a God, even after he was ascended.
According to God's definitions of himself, he is not a man nor a son of man.

Jesus declared He was in fact Son of God as well as son of man. Jesus never once claimed "a" god, but claimed the Father God was in Him, and He is the Father, that same God the Jews claimed.

Yes, Jesus did clearly claim to have a God, which was the same God as his followers were supposed to have.
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

WS: Jesus said the Father was "in" Him, and He was "in" the Father. Yet, the Father spoke over Jesus from heaven, while Jesus stood in the water. Indeed, neither the Father God nor the Holy Spirit ever became a human like Jesus did, and neither were of man. The only relationship of man is that man was made after the image and likeness of the triune Godhead.

C: That doesn't do much to establish that Jesus was God, when Jesus declared that he had a God, and it wasn't himself.
God already established that he was not a man nor a son of man.

I wrote today in another post Jesus claimed He was the I AM that knew Abraham while Abraham walked the earth, going further, that He was the I AM before Abraham was.

That doesn't cancel out the fact that Jesus claimed to have a God, and it wasn't himself. Cult leaders are just as capable of talking out of both sides of their mouth as politicans are.

WS:
Even his blood line was not of Adam whose blood was cursed through sin. He came by the seed of the woman, not of a man, escaping the de jure curse of death on all men having the blood of Adam.

centauri:
Both Adam and Eve "sinned" and it was Eve that sinned first.
Women are just as capable of passing on a "blood" curse as men are.

It is not said of Eve that she sinned in the same sense Adam sinned. Adam was not beguiled, but deliberately chose to obey his wife instead of God. Eve was "beguiled". She was deluded by a lie and acted upon that seduction. Whether Adam picked the fruit on his own or took it from Eve's hand, his decision was classic sin. It is not said in the Bible that any curse came on the blood of the woman, but all the curse fell on that of Adam's seed.

Adam's seed includes men and women.
Both sexes are involved in the sin.
Eve ate the fruit before Adam did.
God declared that Eve was to be ruled over by her husband.
That would indicate that women are not deemed to be any more sin-free than men are, regardless of which sex God cursed.

WS: The law of the tree was given to Adam, so he had no excuse. His violation was both a transgression and a sin. The woman was beguiled. From then on the weight of the sin was placed on Adam by God, though the woman would acquire limited punishment in child-bearing but with a promise of a final victory over sin through the seed of the woman.

C: Women are considered sinners along with men.
The promise was that there would be enmity between a serpent and humans.

Yes, once sin was unleashed on earth both men and women choose to disobey God and are sinners. The promise you speak of was not between the devil and plural humans, but that one seed of the woman to come into the earth.

It doesn't specify one particular seed, it simply says seed or offspring.
There would be disharmony between the offspring of the serpent and the offspring of Eve.

WS: The highest of justice prevented Jesus from carrying the burden of all mankind's sin load in hell forever as any man not in Christ will do eternally. Jesus was then permitted to leave hell, leave the sin burden behind in the upper part called Paradise, leading a host of other departed saints back up through their graves. appearing to many witnesses. He was "sprung" from a prison designed for sinners. Since Jesus took upon Himself all sin of men it was unjust to punish Him for sin.

centauri: Justice is relative.
According to God's instructions, each person saves themselves, there is no one size fits all human sacrifice that they must believe in.

Religions of men around earth require men and women to save themselves. The Bible is clear that all the law of the OT and the new covenant through Jesus aimed at salvation of humans through mercy and grace through faith.

Doing the law is vital to salvation, which is clearly expressed in Ezek 18.

WS: God's justice is obviously higher than mans' concept.

C: It's not obvious at all, it's subjective.

How so?

The idea that unbelief in an unproved doctrine would damn someone to hell is subjective.

WS: There are no instructions in the Bible for anyone to save himself, except some misguided advice from Job's friends.

C: Each person dies for their own sin and redeems themselves through proper action.
The instructions are quite clear and are found in Ezek 18.

You speak of some other religion not pertaining to the Bible. If you die how then will you perform any action? It is true each unsaved person dies in their own sins, but if it stops with that, the person is forever trapped in that sinful state. The sin issue must then be decided before death.

It is decided. You are to repent and keep the law.
In doing so you save your soul.

If you hang up on the initial proverb there in EZ 18 you would miss the whole point of the passage. The parable suggests fathers are responsible for their children's sins. If you read on you will see all men are individually accountable for themselves before God, and none will bear responsibility for another. A sinner will die over his own sin if left to himself with no hope of a savior. You lie you fry, not yur children! Shed the sin life, being found in Christ, live eternally with God, independently of the decisions of other family members.

Ezek 18 has nothing do with Jesus, or having faith in a human sacrifice.
Salvation is achieved by repenting of sin and keeping the law.
That is done on an individual basis.
Ezek 18:20-27
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.