How do Christians define LIBERAL?

[coolbluehair]

How do Christians define LIBERAL?

[1John2_26]

1John wrote:
How is anti-Christ an insult?

It might be considered an insult to a Christian to be called anti-Christ. WOuld you not be insulted or upset if I proclaimed long and loud that you are an anti-Christ?

I would continue to prove your position as being wrong.

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Now new laws have been invented to silence Christians the way Herod's priests silenced Christ Jesus. Literally the same way by using secular laws!!!

You have yet to present evidence that any laws have been enacted, at least in the U.S., specifically to silence Christians.

You have yet to present evidence that CHristians free speech rights have been infringed upon in any even trifling way.

I feel like a rape victim in the courtroom facing their perpetrators lawyer.

I have presented proof and you still say I didn't.

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Describes Jesus and early Christians very well. Jesus was all about reform.

Yet He said He did not change one word of scripture. Not one jot or tittle.

True enough. As I have noted, liberal and conservative are not necessarily mutually exclusive notions. Jesus did have respect for Jewish tradition. However, he was not a slave to it. He was willing to put aside even Mosaic law for a higher purpose (e.g. the Mosaic law on divorce).

He cemented marriage as a man and a woman. Very non-liberal view these days.

I did not mean to imply that Jesus never acted in a 'conservative manner', only that much of his actions, teachings, and outlook are quite consistent with the definition of liberal offered by Occam.

Liberal maybe forty years ago. The word has been corrupted out of any recognizeble way it used to be. I have many conservative Democrat friends now in the mid-west. I have even spken to Reverend James Meeks office on his run for the Govenors office to oppose the liberal agenda in his state. Liberals want their sanity back from the chaos it has been taken to.

I am not sure why you keep quoting Spong, except in an effort to make him a straw man spokesperson for all liberal Christians so you have an easier time bashing them.

You whine about evidence. I present the loudest voice leading the movement. Jim Wallis and Barry Lynn are other extremists that have taken liberalism to the twilight zone. Of course the names would take a thousand web pages to post all of them from just California and Massachusetts.

You have in no way refuted any of the points I made showing how Jesus could be considered in many ways a prototypical liberal.

Jesus did though.

Noan, the flood, Jonah, Satan in the garden . . . etc., etc., etc., et al . . . the Resurrection, His ascension yada, yada, yada. These things Jesus believed were reality; don't go over so well to liberals these days.

I'll agree with you that the prototypical Liberal was Jesus and His conservative orthodoxy.

Whatever liberals are now, they have absolutely nothing in common with the liberalism of Christ Jesus.

I just can't see Jesus telling a adulterous pregnant woman to go and sin no more "AFTER" her abortion at the clinic He just pointed out to her. Also I just don't see the liberal-Jesus shooting drugs into the vein of a sick person to euthanize them. Can you?

Liberals are defined by their support of abortion and euthanasia for convenience and not just by Christians.

[palmera]

I feel like a rape victim in the courtroom facing their perpetrators lawyer.

A bit extreme don't you think? Perhaps a bit of an insult to actual rape victims?

He cemented marriage as a man and a woman. Very non-liberal view these days.

How so? Can you point me to a scriptural reference in which Jesus, when asked to define what marriage is, says that marriage is between a man and woman and nothing else? Could it be that what marriage "is" (as we argue it today) wasn't a concern of the gospel author?

Whatever liberals are now, they have absolutely nothing in common with the liberalism of Christ Jesus.

What was Jesus main charge to others? (No, it's not to evangelize) To help the poor. Do liberals not strive to help the poor? Do liberals not fight for social justice and human rights? OR perhaps Christ Jesus is different from the man Jesus. Is it that Christ Jesus only cared about family values and evangelizing the world while only normal ole' Jesus cared about materially helping the poor- actually making the world a better place. I really don't understand how you can make statements like this and think you're speaking some truth about reality.


Also, back to the main question at hand: Has anybody yet asked what "The" Christian perspective is? Have we yet addressed the reality that there are literally millions of different Christian perspectives? How can one define a liberal using "The" Christian perspective? What does this even mean?

[micatala]

Quote:
1John wrote:
How is anti-Christ an insult?

It might be considered an insult to a Christian to be called anti-Christ. WOuld you not be insulted or upset if I proclaimed long and loud that you are an anti-Christ?

I would continue to prove your position as being wrong.

Like I have proven your position as being wrong?

You whine about evidence. I present the loudest voice leading the movement. Jim Wallis and Barry Lynn are other extremists that have taken liberalism to the twilight zone. Of course the names would take a thousand web pages to post all of them from just California and Massachusetts

Spong is the loudest voice leading the liberal Christian movement? According to who? It seems to me he is the one you find the most pleasure in beating up on, but I don't see that you have shown that he is in any way representative of 'liberal Christianity.' I know I had never heard of him before seeing him referred to on this forum, by you I think.

Probably more people have heard of Wallis and Lynn, but I think you are reaching (or purposefully creating strawmen again) to think that either of these individuals hold views that are broadly representative of people who identify themselves as liberal Christians.

Liberals are defined by their support of abortion and euthanasia for convenience and not just by Christians.

This is like saying conservative Christians are defined by their hatred of gays, their ignorance of science, their opposition to women's right, their malicious neglect of environmental issues, their desire for theocracy in America, and their hope to see Armeggodon happen as soon as possible. It is a gross mischaracaterization at best, possibly more like a cheap smear.

[micatala]

Jim Wallis and Barry Lynn are other extremists that have taken liberalism to the twilight zone.

You have repeatedly criticized liberals for promoting sexual licentiousness, single-parenthood, abortion, and Euthanasia. You have claimed Wallis as one of the 'leading voices' of liberal Christianity. Let's see what Wallis actually has to say. All of these quotes are from his book 'God's Politics'.

Infidelity, betrayal, broken relationships, and casual sex are undermining the health and integrity of our society.

So much for liberals as promoters of sexual licentiousness. It seems you have ignored the actual evidence in making your assertions.

In the world-view of the television networks, eveything is a commodity - including our relationships, our bodies, and our values. And everything is for sale.

It is worth noting that some of the examples cited by Wallis were programs on Fox, the most conservative large network in the U.S., owned by one of the richest and most conservative people on the planet. Maybe you have conservative and liberal mixed up as far as who is actually promoting sexual licentiousness and anti-family values.


Wallis also takes the democrats and republicans to task for failing to promote a consistent ethic of valuing life. He clearly does not support the idea of abortion on demand, nor euthanasia.


It seems to me the public discourse would be improved if we accurately took into account what people's views actually were, instead of mischaracterizing our opponents, and attributing views of a few extremists to large groups of people who do not hold those views.

[kilczer15]

How do Christians define LIBERAL?

Evil and Godless. They're the work of the devil.

[/sarcasm]