Bad Christian or not a Christian?

[boatsnguitars]

Can you still be a Christian, even if you purposely defy Jesus's commands?

So everyone is clear, Jesus commanded of his followers:

Love God and Love Your Neighbor:
Matthew 22:37-39 (NIV): "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

The Great Commission:
Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV): "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

Repentance and Forgiveness:
Luke 24:46-47 (NIV): "Repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations."

The Golden Rule:
Matthew 7:12 (NIV): "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Humility and Servanthood:
Matthew 20:26-28 (NIV): "Whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave."

Seek God's Kingdom First:
Matthew 6:33 (NIV): "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."

The New Commandment:
John 13:34-35 (NIV): "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

Perseverance and Endurance:
Matthew 24:13 (NIV): "But the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Faith and Trust:
John 14:1 (NIV): "Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me."

Generosity and Selflessness:
Luke 6:30 (NIV): "Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."

Giving to Those in Need:
Matthew 5:42 (NIV): "Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

At what point does a person go from being a bad Christian to no Christian at all?

[Data]

As an ex-Christian, I know exactly what it involves. Are you of the impression that people who are no longer Christians never were one? I know that's one common apologetic that some Christians like to pull out when things get inconvenient for them.

Though it varies, I would say that many who professed to be Christian are that only in name and tradition. The former likely left by seeing the failings of the apostate teachings and practices. Moses and Jesus didn't teach the immortal soul, hell, trinity, cross, rapture or that all good people go to heaven. They didn't celebrate pagan holidays like birthdays, New Years, Christmas, Easter, Valentines Day, etc. Those things are modern day Christianity so how can it be that they follow Jesus's teachings? (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

We can only go by what is written in the New Testament about what Jesus said/wanted. As usual, this is up to the interpretation of every single Christian. Are you aware of how many Christian denominations there are? What might that tell you about Christians distilling what Jesus really wanted?

Not much really, other than the obvious which you pointed out. Tradition probably has more to do with it than anything. The variation in politics is comparable. Democrat vs. Republican here in the states. They support the ideology of the party. If there were only one Christian "denomination" there would remain differences of opinions regarding what Jesus taught. Some of those would be legitimate and some ideologically, culturally, traditionally or even politically founded. The original Christians were democratic, they voted by majority. This alone suggests variation.

Speaking of nonsense... At what point did I say I wanted to make anyone feel bad?

Excuse me, but I don't know who you are. I'm not familiar with you. Maybe I was addressing you by erroneously thinking you were Boatsandguitars? I think part of the militant atheist strategy, if you can call it that, does involve trying to make theists feel bad; slavery, genocide, hell, etc. and conversely the ideological theists do the same; abortion, homosexuality, morality, etc. But I wasn't necessarily suggesting you were doing that in this specific case because I was likely addressing the OP.

This feels like some sort of projection based on the uncomfortableness you might be feeling when it's pointed out what's actually in the Bible.

Part of the reason I'm here is that I look for that. I've learned a great deal from it and don't at all feel uncomfortable with it.

Maybe I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but it sounds like this is making you uncomfortable because now you need to figure out which things Jesus said and/or did that you should do and which ones you can safely ignore. Sounds like you are currently ignoring Matthew 19:21 and Luke 12:33.

Jesus said those things to me or someone else in a different time and place? Having thought so carefully on the matter, which of my possessions do you think Jesus would have me give to the poor? Now, at this point, I'm saying you want to make someone feel bad. Last summer my mother died and left me all of her possessions. She had a lot of possessions. She thought I should sell them. I gave them to the poor. Literally truckloads. You need not worry about me when it comes to figuring out what Jesus wants me to do. That isn't a boast because I come to it naturally. The reason for that isn't religion, it's a mutual contempt for the system of things, a separation that goes beyond "church and state." A separation from the world. It manifests itself in ways mere ideological fixation doesn't. Without the accompanying hypocrisy.

I'm certainly not looking to make anyone uncomfortable (got enough of that in the church),

My observations of those who have left the church for the state is out of the frying pan into the fire.

I'm just asking Christians the simple question of which of Jesus's teachings are 'valid' and which ones can safely be ignored and why.

All of Jesus's teachings are valid. Why? Because he was our model. He is our goal. To reflect the father, Jehovah God, and desire with all of our soul, the vindication of his name and resulting in the unanimous acknowledgment of his rightful sovereignty. I don't judge the shortcomings of people, or even myself, in regards to our endeavor to do that to the best of our ability. I simply point out the hypocrisy of our behaving as ideologues. Sin. In other words, I don't judge our effort, I judge the things that get in the way.

[Data]

Couldn't care less. The only thing that matters are the arguments presented here and whether they stack up.

I believe I've pointed this out to you before but you have no argument. You can't possibly "lose" that which you do not possess. Things like truth, facts, evidence, are irrelevant to the ideologically fixated. You aren't looking for an argument, you're looking for a dictatorship of uncompromising dogma.

If you let Bible enthusiasts defeat you on trivia like who Methuselah's nephew was, you need to rethink your tactics.

I don't think so.

I'm not even going to repost this pointeless, self advertising or self pitying garbage.

Excellent. Spoken like a true ideologue. You go from the pretense of concern for the poor and the hypocrisy such a mockery requires to a more honest complete lack of empathy - from one to the other - whichever your ideology (alleged argument) requires.

[TRANSPONDER]

Couldn't care less. The only thing that matters are the arguments presented here and whether they stack up.

I believe I've pointed this out to you before but you have no argument. You can't possibly "lose" that which you do not possess. Things like truth, facts, evidence, are irrelevant to the ideologically fixated. You aren't looking for an argument, you're looking for a dictatorship of uncompromising dogma.

If you let Bible enthusiasts defeat you on trivia like who Methuselah's nephew was, you need to rethink your tactics.

I don't think so.

I'm not even going to repost this pointeless, self advertising or self pitying garbage.

Excellent. Spoken like a true ideologue. You go from the pretense of concern for the poor and the hypocrisy such a mockery requires to a more honest complete lack of empathy - from one to the other - whichever your ideology (alleged argument) requires.

Nothing there but sheer fingers in ears denial. No case, no argument. As i say, I don't care. I don't case what you think or believe about religion, about me or about anything else. I only care about the case presented, and I suggest to any posting or browsing here, that's what they put front and center, too.

What case or argument (aside from personals about me) do you have for your case...whatever it was?

I did go up to see what your argument was. Aside from bragging about giving away all the surplus stuff you didn't need to keep, and claiming this was giving all you have to the poor, you appear to be playing the 'We need it, true or not' card. Jesus is our model and our goal. Not since Jefferson he wasn't.

At one time Jesus/Gospels might have been wagged about as a model (unfortunately too much OT stuff was wagged about as well and still is) but since emancipation and the vote for all and female emancipation and tolerance of gays, more recently, society had gone beyond even the examples of the Gospels, and while 'love' and concern for our fellows is still fine and dandy, running to Jesus, gospel and the Church is no longer the viable option it was.

I know, the Jesus advocates can wail about the ongoing shortcomings of society and ignore that today they have a life better than before and if anything the Bible and its' supporters have fought to stop 'progress' on everything and are still trying to turn the clock back. I propose that 'Jesus' is not the answer to all our problems, never mind being in any sense 'Real'.

[1213]

...Are you not aware that 50% of the globe lives on less than $1 per day - many of them not happy or healthy, but working hard to survive?

If you want me to help them, I would need more specific information who they are. If you don't want help for them, then I understand if you don't want to tell exactly who they are.

Wth dude? What do you mean "If you want me to help them"

So, you don't want me to help them? It is interesting that you know people who are poor, but you don't want to tell who they are, apparently because you don't want them to have help?

I thought God Himself told you to help them? What do I matter to you? This is what I don't understand about Christians! God tells you to do something - an atheist mentions it - and you attack the messenger! It's YOUR God! It's YOUR Religion!

And you basically claim to know it better than me. It is comical from an atheist.

You're the one who claims to be a follower of God Incarnate!

I have not claimed to be a follower of "God incarnate".

Do Christians need a Master so desperately that they turn to Atheists to tell them what to do?

You have misunderstood my point. I don't ask you to tell what should I do. I ask you to tell specifically, who do you think are the poor who need help?

[boatsnguitars]

...Are you not aware that 50% of the globe lives on less than $1 per day - many of them not happy or healthy, but working hard to survive?

If you want me to help them, I would need more specific information who they are. If you don't want help for them, then I understand if you don't want to tell exactly who they are.

Wth dude? What do you mean "If you want me to help them"

So, you don't want me to help them? It is interesting that you know people who are poor, but you don't want to tell who they are, apparently because you don't want them to have help?

I thought God Himself told you to help them? What do I matter to you? This is what I don't understand about Christians! God tells you to do something - an atheist mentions it - and you attack the messenger! It's YOUR God! It's YOUR Religion!

And you basically claim to know it better than me. It is comical from an atheist.

You're the one who claims to be a follower of God Incarnate!

I have not claimed to be a follower of "God incarnate".

Do Christians need a Master so desperately that they turn to Atheists to tell them what to do?

You have misunderstood my point. I don't ask you to tell what should I do. I ask you to tell specifically, who do you think are the poor who need help?

You are precious. OK, tell me where you live. I will send you a few places you can go to help the poor in your neighborhood. Keeping mind that poor people in the Western world aren't as poverty stricken as in other countries, but I can see you don't explore much - since you don't even know of poor people near you.

But, I also know you aren't going to do anything. You've got yours. What do you care about poor people - you don't even know where to look!

I find it tragically humorous that you keep asking me, as if I wouldn't be able to send you any link to satisfy your request. But for some reason you thin you have got me over a barrel? Check your local welfare office, go to your local churches, check the homeless shelter, go to the poor under the bridges, call Red Cross, talk to the Salvation Army, call Doctors with Borders.

The point is: where AREN'T there poor people - but you need a starting point to find them!?!?!?

Just admit you don't care about them, and don't care about Jesus's Great Commission.