Restored Topic

[Cogitoergosum]

Achiles had asked people to explain the rise of christianity. I don't know if it was supposed to prove that christianity was somehow special because of the way it rose, but how is that different than the rise of islam? Can you explain to me why you believe christianity to be better?

How do u explain the rise of christianity?

How do u explain the rise of islam?

1) The Gospels being written by at least the following dates
Mark 65-70 CE
Matthew 70-80 CE
Luke 80-85 CE

1) the koran being written about 700 C.E.

2) The letters of Paul and his writings on the subjects, specifically the parts where he refers to Jesus as a human, any of Jesus actions, and beliefs of himself and those he speaks about.

2) the "hadith" written as an add on to the kuran and the "ijtihad" written by imams that corroborate the divine message of mohammad and confirm his status as a prophet.

3) The writings of Josephus

referr to 2

4) The Historical account presented in the Talmud

The historical account in the Talmud of jesus is sketchy at best. Yeshua there is only a rabbi no magical powers, different set of parents than jesus, no disciples...
the historical account present in history books about mohammad and neighboring nations

5) The fact that the geography of the Gospels (especially Luke) is almost exact.

the geography in the history of islam and mohammad is accurate

6) The fact that Archeology has not uncovered anything that contradicts a Gospel, or acts, or Pauline letter account.

Archeology has not unproved anything in the koran

7) The beliefs of the very first Christians (Nazarenes).

the beliefs of the very first moslims

8) The accounts of history such as Caesar’s declaration around 60CE that bodies were never to be taken out of the graves, punishable by death, right near Nazareth.

I don't know what evidence that is, supposedly jesus's body is in heaven and not around nazareth. Multiple historical accounts confirm the existence of mohammad.

9) Later archeology and history such as Pliny's letters.

same as previous arguments

10) The conversion of Paul

the conversion of thousands of jews and christians of the time to islam.

11) The conversion of the early Jews, constituting the Council of Jerusalem
same as above

12) The Martyrdom of James

somebody killed him, so what?

13) The conversion of James

same as above

14) The martyrdom of the first apostles. ( I Know that there isn't solid evidence supporting these men being martyrs. However explain why the early church fathers would write about the details of their deaths, if something close to that did actually happen.)

martyrdom of the thousands of moslims while conquering lands and spreading islam.

so how exactly are these proofs of a divine religion?

[MrWhy]

This is quibbling about what some ancient text means. It is obvious to anyone who visits a variety of forums that all ancient scriptures are very vulnerable to fault finding. They are vulnerable because they were conceived and written by mortals with no input from a god. They were written in times when skills in writing concise meaning and consistency were not available, or highly valued. Then they were translated, and interpreted a few different ways. It should be no surprise they all have problems with accuracy and consistency. All this is evidence that they are not the revelation of a god. No god was involved.

The special meanings, truths, and supernatural knowledge that people find in these texts is the results of a desperate need to find religious meaning where it does not exist. Finding religious meaning and symbols in a tree or your oatmeal is the same. They are coincidences, inaccurate reports, or lies.

[MrWhy]

Modern day miracle picture. Believe it if you are like cattle, and cannot think in anyway except how you were indoctrinated to think.

[QED]

What's the point behind the multiple submissions thev2008? Is this supposed to be the equivalent of spreading faith by force?

[Greatest I Am]

It is interesting that the noble quran also has a Hell.

Hell does not exist. It's existence would mean that God is capable of mistakes and cannot be trusted to create perfect souls. Limiting God's power and Perfection in this way is not allowed.

Regards
DL

[Furrowed Brow]

It is interesting that the noble quran also has a Hell.

Hell does not exist. It's existence would mean that God is capable of mistakes and cannot be trusted to create perfect souls. Limiting God's power and Perfection in this way is not allowed.

Regards
DL

Ah. But are God's ways not also supposed to be mysterious?

[Greatest I Am]

Two things come to mind from your comment.

God mentions in Genesis that learning good and evil leads to God.

There is also an end time quote that speaks to understanding coming to some at the end time, of the writings of the Bible.

A good teacher will not hide anything from the student, merely not divulge information that will only confuse the issue or the student. Some students push the teacher and get burned in the process.

It seems we must crawl before walking with the Lord.

I do not think God mysterious. How can He be if I can see His perfections all about.
Even with all we know we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Regards
DL