Jehovah's Witnesses Bible

[Ross]

Much debate has taken place over the change the Jehovah's Witnesses made to John 1:1 rendering GOD as 'a god'. Virtually all references made to the Divinity of Jesus Christ in the NWT of the Greek Scriptures included adjustments to the literal rendering of the Koine' Greek to English, with the notable exception of John 20:28.

This translation of the Greek Scriptures was performed in secret by a Translation Committee led by the President and Vice President without the knowledge of the Governing Body who had no option but to accept this once it was revealed, as back then the Governing Body had little power.

After this they produced the Hebrew Scriptures, and It didn't take long for them to carry out similar unfaithful translation.

Almost every Bible ever written translates the second part of Genesis 1:2 as it appears to us in the Hebrew Masoretic Text:

"And The Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters"

Jehovah's Witnesses assert that the Spirit of God, The Holy Spirit, is a none intelligent, none personal form of Gods power, likened in their literature to electricity that makes things work or happen.

Their official description and interpretation of the Holy Spirit is 'Gods active force'.

Genesis 1:2 reads in the New World Translation:

" and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."

Is this not the most blatant insertion of pre conceived doctrine into scripture you have ever seen?

[Tcg]

Matthew 20:28 declares that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit have but one name. What do you think about that?

Matthew 20:28 states the following: "even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Are you sure this is the reference you intended?


Tcg

Sorry, I meant Matthew 28: 19,20.

Thanks for the reply, however, I'm not sure why you think it teaches that the three have "but one name." It clearly mentions three separate entities. I'm not sure that any of the titles used are names.


Tcg

[2timothy316]

Its not what I think but what trinity you believe in. Do you agree with the trinitarian in the linked article that says that Jehovah is Jesus? I want to figure out if all trinitarians have the same doctrine. Right now, it doesn't seem so, comparing what you say with what the trinitarian said in his article. After all it was you said that, "I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.' Well, I have made you aware that there are trinitarians that believe Jehovah is part of the trinity by saying Jehovah is Jesus. Or Jesus not part of the trinity? Or is your fellow trinitarian wrong?

Firstly Timothy, I have never actually claimed to be a Trinitarian.

Good for you!
So you're of the belief that Jesus, Jehovah and the Holy Spirit are the same person.

That is not what the Trinity concept is, nor is it my belief

I know that is not what the trinity concept is. I am unclear as to what your concept actually is.

[2timothy316]

Matthew 20:28 declares that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit have but one name. What do you think about that?

Matthew 20:28 states the following: "even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Are you sure this is the reference you intended?


Tcg

Sorry, I meant Matthew 28: 19,20.

Thanks for the reply, however, I'm not sure why you think it teaches that the three have "but one name." It clearly mentions three separate entities. I'm not sure that any of the titles used are names.


Tcg

Matthew 28:19, 20 is one of the places where the 'in the name of' appears. There is another use like it at Matthew 10:41, "He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward..."

The use of the term 'in the name of' is a Greek idiom to indicate the recognition of office and work of what it is speaking of. In the Mt 28:19, 20 it is recognizing the work/positions of Jehovah, Jesus and God's holy spirit. At Mt 10:41 it is recognizing the office and work of prophet.

We have something similar in the English language. Ever heard of the term, "Stop in the name of the law"? There is even a song called, "Stop in the name of love". It doesn't actually mean that love has a name or that all the laws carry one name. It is telling a criminal that is running to stop in the recognition of the law or as the the case of the song, stop breaking hearts(?) in the recognition of love.

Thus at Mt 28:19, 20 Jesus' followers are commanded to baptize people in recognition of three different office positions and the authority each one position holds, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

[Tcg]

Matthew 20:28 declares that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit have but one name. What do you think about that?

Matthew 20:28 states the following: "even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Are you sure this is the reference you intended?


Tcg

Sorry, I meant Matthew 28: 19,20.

Thanks for the reply, however, I'm not sure why you think it teaches that the three have "but one name." It clearly mentions three separate entities. I'm not sure that any of the titles used are names.


Tcg

Matthew 28:19, 20 is one of the places where the 'in the name of' appears. There is another use like it at Matthew 10:41, "He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward..."

The use of the term 'in the name of' is a Greek idiom to indicate the recognition of office and work of what it is speaking of. In the Mt 28:19, 20 it is recognizing the work/positions of Jehovah, Jesus and God's holy spirit. At Mt 10:41 it is recognizing the office and work of prophet.

We have something similar in the English language. Ever heard of the term, "Stop in the name of the law"? There is even a song called, "Stop in the name of love". It doesn't actually mean that love has a name or that all the laws carry one name. It is telling a criminal that is running to stop in the recognition of the law or as the the case of the song, stop breaking hearts(?) in the recognition of love.

Thus at Mt 28:19, 20 Jesus' followers are commanded to baptize people in recognition of three different office positions and the authority each one position holds, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for the informative reply. As you point out, these are three different beings. No where does it imply that they are one in the same person. They are listed as three independent persons.


Tcg

[William]

[Replying to Tcg in post #84]

They are listed as three independent persons.

Interdependent, by all accounts.

[Ross]

Its not what I think but what trinity you believe in. Do you agree with the trinitarian in the linked article that says that Jehovah is Jesus? I want to figure out if all trinitarians have the same doctrine. Right now, it doesn't seem so, comparing what you say with what the trinitarian said in his article. After all it was you said that, "I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.' Well, I have made you aware that there are trinitarians that believe Jehovah is part of the trinity by saying Jehovah is Jesus. Or Jesus not part of the trinity? Or is your fellow trinitarian wrong?

Firstly Timothy, I have never actually claimed to be a Trinitarian.

Good for you!
So you're of the belief that Jesus, Jehovah and the Holy Spirit are the same person.

That is not what the Trinity concept is, nor is it my belief

I know that is not what the trinity concept is. I am unclear as to what your concept actually is.

I explained it in post 80. Here it is again:

I personally have always had reservations about the 'three persons' as a description, however I am in no doubt whatsoever that the Bible teaches the first bit:

that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are the same ONE God,

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Tcg in post #84]

They are listed as three independent persons.

Interdependent, by all accounts.

By all accounts NOT interdependent. The Father doesn't need the Son to go on existing, and perfectly happy He would be. The Son does need the Father to exist and function.

"According to the good news of the happy God..." (I Timothy 1:11)

"Jesus went on to say to them: 'Most truly I say to you, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that one does, these things the Son also does in like manner.'" (John 5:19)

[Ross]

Matthew 20:28 declares that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit have but one name. What do you think about that?

Matthew 20:28 states the following: "even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Are you sure this is the reference you intended?


Tcg

Sorry, I meant Matthew 28: 19,20.

Thanks for the reply, however, I'm not sure why you think it teaches that the three have "but one name." It clearly mentions three separate entities. I'm not sure that any of the titles used are names.


Tcg

Are you then of the same opinion as Timothy?

[onewithhim]

Its not what I think but what trinity you believe in. Do you agree with the trinitarian in the linked article that says that Jehovah is Jesus? I want to figure out if all trinitarians have the same doctrine. Right now, it doesn't seem so, comparing what you say with what the trinitarian said in his article. After all it was you said that, "I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.' Well, I have made you aware that there are trinitarians that believe Jehovah is part of the trinity by saying Jehovah is Jesus. Or Jesus not part of the trinity? Or is your fellow trinitarian wrong?

Firstly Timothy, I have never actually claimed to be a Trinitarian.

Good for you!
So you're of the belief that Jesus, Jehovah and the Holy Spirit are the same person.

That is not what the Trinity concept is, nor is it my belief

I know that is not what the trinity concept is. I am unclear as to what your concept actually is.

I explained it in post 80. Here it is again:

I personally have always had reservations about the 'three persons' as a description, however I am in no doubt whatsoever that the Bible teaches the first bit:

that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are the same ONE God,

They are "one" but not the same one God. Jesus and his Father are "one" in that they are in agreement, and the same goes for the disciples who are "one" with the Father and Christ. (John 17:20-23) Being one in agreement does not mean they are the same one God. If so, then the disciples are also God.

[Ross]

The use of the term 'in the name of' is a Greek idiom to indicate the recognition of office and work of what it is speaking of. In the Mt 28:19, 20 it is recognizing the work/positions of Jehovah, Jesus and God's holy spirit.

We have something similar in the English language. Ever heard of the term, "Stop in the name of the law"? There is even a song called, "Stop in the name of love". It doesn't actually mean that love has a name or that all the laws carry one name. It is telling a criminal that is running to stop in the recognition of the law or as the the case of the song, stop breaking hearts(?) in the recognition of love.

Thus at Mt 28:19, 20 Jesus' followers are commanded to baptize people in recognition of three different office positions and the authority each one position holds, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Well at last we agree on something; and you recognise the true meaning of a name when it refers to the Almighty.

So to the Lords Prayer:

"You must pray then this way: Our Father in Heaven, hallowed be your name."

It is exactly the same thing: Not a name like Joe or Tim or John or even Jehovah, but the reputation, the glory, the qualities, or as you put it the office of The Father that should be honoured and glorified. What the Father stands for and represents. Jesus did not tell us to pray to 'Jehovah.'