Right now..Lawless Days of Prophecy?

nzlaws · Post by **nzlaws** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:58 am

International examples of corruption, crime, etc include Nations perceived to be the least corrupt - what conclusions do theological observers come to based upon this amateur observation of evidence?

And more importantly what is the likely response from organised religions to this reality or how much worse before evidence quantifies prophecy?

I have worked a little in the mental health arena some years ago and am aware of the number of confused individuals that believe that they are "Jesus" and seen the organised Christian response to this (medication) so the likelihood of the real "Christ" Identifying himself to any religion in real time would be rather slim.

I personally suspect that saving the Planet from humanities stupidity would be Christs first goal in serving God- "This would require a new form of Government"... if not the solution then I am open to being impressed- are there any other thoughts on another possible methodology for saving the environment for Life that God provided

I see concepts of ownership as being the biggest hurdle - but couldn't find anywhere in the bible where ownership was transferred to the occupants- be it the family of mankind or the other families- all of which are Gods Creations- "Domain over" does not suggest or confer Disposition but rather highlights the difference between Stewardship and Ownership- one of these concepts does not include Disposition...

Come on folk enlighten me- Where are religions going? over and over the same ground year after year? what is new on the horizon- communications have evolved in the last few years- from this we can grow (am I wrong?).

salvation2011 · Post by **salvation2011** » Mon May 02, 2011 10:05 am

Slopeshoulder wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:According to the bible, all religions (identified in the bible book of revelation as the "the harlot, babylon the great", will soon be destroyed.
Actually, that phrase, "the harlot, babylon the great" was referring to Babylon, and likening it to a harlot.

And at this time the hebrews were working out their monotheism, claiming their god was better, and predicting and wishing that their god would destroy babylon, their captor, who they believed was whoring itself to a false, evil, or weaker god.

It had nothing to do with other religions today or what God will do to them in the future. What you say the bible says in not what the bible says but merely what a buncha folks have done with the bible.

The bible isn't a playbook for the future, and prophecy is speaking truth to power with insight and courage, not soothsaying. You've been misled by ignorami.

Its nice to see a fellow believer in the revelations not being a future oriented book!

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Tue May 03, 2011 2:45 am

nalaws said:
And you have just exhibited that some prefer the sense of security of being able to misinterpret or interpret ancient scriptures in such a manner as to excuse doing nothing while admonishing those that would choose to make honest attempts with these primitive and naive hopes and aspirations that God is going to clean up the mess while some elites privileged to benefit from the reconstruction get to stand by and watch?... Yes this is one nonsense that is easy to spot

Once again the scriptures I believe in do Not give any excuse for not making attempts to make this world a better place. The belief that they do is totally your misconception. One that you are projecting upon me. No doing ones best to make their world a better place is a good and noble undertaking, but believing that we are going to make the world a utopia is total vanity. And never will be achieved. This does not stop a Christian from attempting to do things to make the world a better place. Because a better world is a better place to live in even when it is not a perfect utopia.

nalaws said:
While religions farm the continuous supply of individuals seeking a path by filling them with false or preposterous hopes- sounds to me like your "elites" work closer than you acknowledge with religions.

What elites? In my faith there are no elites other than God. I do not follow any man. I follow my conscience to my God.

nalaws said:
Actually No that is not what the above quote was about- You suggested to another member that they should learn from history- well history is still being written-

Yes and it is being written as it has always been written same old thing repeating itself, there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to the interaction between men.

nalaws said:
coming from the middle east is a unprecedented but determined move toward Democracy- while I agree there is currently no good model of democracy I suggest that democracy does project that the people have a choice or the ability to exercise God given? Free Will.

We have the ability to exercise free will no matter what society we live in. Just because something is deemed illegal or not sanctioned by the elites does not mean we cannot believe or do as our fee will determines. As long as we are ok with what ever action the elites will take against us. I dont care what laws the elites put forward, If I am determined to do, say, or believe something. I will.

nalaws said:
So you are not expecting God to build your utopia in the next couple of years then?

No. I am expecting things to get a lot worse in the next couple of years. Mark my words in your memory, see if I am correct.

nalaws said:
Adstar said:
Ahh communism, guess what China and Vietnam are communist countries and their slave class works for the elites harder and with less privileges then the western salves do.
Pathetic Adstar just Pathetic - how can anyone take you seriously- New Zealand has never been a communist country

My comment had absolutely nothing to do with NZ and what their elites have done nor the system they work with.

My comment about communism came from the proposed solutions spoken of in the links you supplied. They where filled with socialist solutions like nationalization and taking back what the public once owned. My comment was the solution was not a solution in regard to creating a utopia in NZ. No matter what system you work under the elites still farm the masses. Wether it is some commissar fat cat giving special corrupt favours to his communist party biddies or some capitalist corporate fat cat giving back handers to politicians makes not a jot of difference. So the slaves in north Korean think they own all the resources of their nation equally while they live on base rations and work like slaves and likewise the workers of modern Russian can delude themselves they live in a democracy while they take home their meagre salve pay, while their gangster capitalist overloads live like kings and spend their money buying English football clubs. Its all the same no matter what system your in. the elites farm the masses.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

nzlaws · Post by **nzlaws** » Tue May 03, 2011 4:45 am

nzlaws wrote:While religions farm the continuous supply of individuals seeking a path by filling them with false or preposterous hopes- sounds to me like your "elites" work closer than you acknowledge with religions.

Asstar wrote:What elites? In my faith there are no elites other than God. I do not follow any man. I follow my conscience to my God.

In just about every one of your posts on this thread including below on this post you have referred to the "elites" - I suggest you make up your mind if you believe in them or not- if not, don't keep referring to them and then pretending you don't know what the reference refers to as it makes me (for one) wonder about that loose screw- are you in denial?

nzlaws wrote:Actually No that is not what the above quote was about- You suggested to another member that they should learn from history- well history is still being written-

Asstar wrote:Yes and it is being written as it has always been written same old thing repeating itself, there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to the interaction between men.

Then your suggestion to another member that they should learn from history lacks sincerity as you didn't add that there is nothing new to learn- again this reflects upon the credibility of your postings

nzlaws said:
coming from the middle east is a unprecedented but determined move toward Democracy- while I agree there is currently no good model of democracy I suggest that democracy does project that the people have a choice or the ability to exercise God given? Free Will.

Asstar wrote:We have the ability to exercise free will no matter what society we live in. Just because something is deemed illegal or not sanctioned by the elites does not mean we cannot believe or do as our fee will determines. As long as we are ok with what ever action the elites will take against us. I dont care what laws the elites put forward, If I am determined to do, say, or believe something. I will.

I reckon the smartest thing you said there was "FEE WILL" and I agree it does seem to becoming that way- but I notice your belief in those "elites" is showing - Nevertheless "Democracy" appears to be the only potential venue for acknowledging the hopes and aspiration of the people.

Asstar wrote:Ahh communism, guess what China and Vietnam are communist countries and their slave class works for the elites harder and with less privileges then the western salves do.

nzlaws wrote:Pathetic Adstar just Pathetic - how can anyone take you seriously- New Zealand has never been a communist country and yet the people did invest in their infrastructure which was managed by ministries- (unfortunately too closely associated with Governance)- Privatisation/laundering of those assets was done without a mandate from those investors by a corrupt minority that penned into creation artificial legal? identities to so conceal and transfer those invested interests. That pre-existing legislation defined this as being a Crime (money laundering) has been overlooked entirely but this is probably due to the same minority being in positions that influence applications of the law intended to provide Justice-
[Proverbs 1 19 So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.] -
Are you suggesting that this was not a criminal act? but rather it is communism when some of the investors in the properties wants it back? - (A screw loose in that "I" socket?) but I suspect that every investor in property has reasonable rights and expectations/interests in regard to that property- very few of which are political (when you turn your light on at night do you seek political approval?)

Any Democracy perceived to be of the people for the people - that has not ensured that those People (that invest in and rely upon infrastructure) do not own that infrastructure lack honour -
[Proverbs 1
2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;]

How could anyone in their right mind confuse the potential of a democratic choice to fulfill the explicit intentions of legislature with such as Communism?- upon which biblical reference would you like to place that bit of nonsensical baggage?

Asstar wrote:My comment had absolutely nothing to do with NZ and what their elites have done nor the system they work with.

My comment about communism came from the proposed solutions spoken of in the links you supplied. They where filled with socialist solutions like nationalization and taking back what the public once owned. My comment was the solution was not a solution in regard to creating a utopia in NZ. No matter what system you work under the elites still farm the masses. Wether it is some commissar fat cat giving special corrupt favours to his communist party biddies or some capitalist corporate fat cat giving back handers to politicians makes not a jot of difference. So the slaves in north Korean think they own all the resources of their nation equally while they live on base rations and work like slaves and likewise the workers of modern Russian can delude themselves they live in a democracy while they take home their meagre salve pay, while their gangster capitalist overloads live like kings and spend their money buying English football clubs. Its all the same no matter what system your in. the elites farm the masses.

You still seem to be fixated upon utopia "asstar" and "elites" which was discussed earlier and you seem to be more than a little blind in your observations of passages and meanings- The posting you refer to had nothing to do with governance or even changing governance- it was about "Property Law" and the reasonable rights and expectations of investors in property- originally this came up as an example of where "Democracy" -repeat "Democracy" (and again just 4u) "Democracy" has other potential applications yes that's right I wrote "Democracy" has other potential applications than those provided by Governments.

I repeat that waiting for God to clean up mankind's messes as you promote- is like a ten year old waiting for daddy to wipe his bottom "asstar"

Clownboat · Post by **Clownboat** » Tue May 03, 2011 12:01 pm

Adstar wrote:Once again the scriptures I believe in do Not give any excuse for not making attempts to make this world a better place. The belief that they do is totally your misconception. One that you are projecting upon me. No doing ones best to make their world a better place is a good and noble undertaking, but believing that we are going to make the world a utopia is total vanity. And never will be achieved. This does not stop a Christian from attempting to do things to make the world a better place. Because a better world is a better place to live in even when it is not a perfect utopia.

Who is suggesting this perfect utopia besides you? Did I miss it?

nalaws said:
While religions farm the continuous supply of individuals seeking a path by filling them with false or preposterous hopes- sounds to me like your "elites" work closer than you acknowledge with religions.

Adstar wrote:What elites? In my faith there are no elites other than God. I do not follow any man. I follow my conscience to my God.

How can I be assured that the conscience of a person I don't know is right? Do you follow the conscience of unknown people on the internet, or do you only suggest we do it when it is your conscience? That would seem very unwise if you ask me.

Adstar wrote:No. I am expecting things to get a lot worse in the next couple of years. Mark my words in your memory, see if I am correct.

My mother has been telling me this since I was a child. I don't know you well enough to believe you somehow have special knowledge. I do believe that bad events will continue to happen, and when they do, you can claim "look, I told you", and then feel special if that is what you are after.

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Tue May 03, 2011 3:26 pm

nzlaws wrote:
nzlaws wrote:While religions farm the continuous supply of individuals seeking a path by filling them with false or preposterous hopes- sounds to me like your "elites" work closer than you acknowledge with religions.

Asstar wrote:What elites? In my faith there are no elites other than God. I do not follow any man. I follow my conscience to my God.
I repeat that waiting for God to clean up mankind's messes as you promote- is like a ten year old waiting for daddy to wipe his bottom "asstar"

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nzlaws wrote:
adstar wrote:Ahhh the middle east move to democracy, forgive me while my eyes roll out the back of my head.
Sure go for it- I have already presumed that your high is natural rather than drug induced?

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Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:57 am

nzlaws wrote:
nzlaws wrote:While religions farm the continuous supply of individuals seeking a path by filling them with false or preposterous hopes- sounds to me like your "elites" work closer than you acknowledge with religions.
Asstar wrote:What elites? In my faith there are no elites other than God. I do not follow any man. I follow my conscience to my God.
In just about every one of your posts on this thread including below on this post you have referred to the "elites" - I suggest you make up your mind if you believe in them or not- if not, don't keep referring to them and then pretending you don't know what the reference refers to as it makes me (for one) wonder about that loose screw- are you in denial?

No i am not in denial. I took the meaning of the term your "elites" to be refering to religious elites who i follow. your "elites" implies ones that i follow or take orders from or support. As i said before i have no religious elites whom i follow.

But yes i agree with you that the elites work with religious organisations because they are both one and the same elites.

nzlaws wrote:Actually No that is not what the above quote was about- You suggested to another member that they should learn from history- well history is still being written-
Asstar wrote:Yes and it is being written as it has always been written same old thing repeating itself, there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to the interaction between men.
Then your suggestion to another member that they should learn from history lacks sincerity as you didn't add that there is nothing new to learn- again this reflects upon the credibility of your postings

There is one thing to learn, And it may be a new thing for some. That history keeps repeating itself.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Wed May 04, 2011 10:18 am

Clownboat wrote:
Adstar wrote:Once again the scriptures I believe in do Not give any excuse for not making attempts to make this world a better place. The belief that they do is totally your misconception. One that you are projecting upon me. No doing ones best to make their world a better place is a good and noble undertaking, but believing that we are going to make the world a utopia is total vanity. And never will be achieved. This does not stop a Christian from attempting to do things to make the world a better place. Because a better world is a better place to live in even when it is not a perfect utopia.
Who is suggesting this perfect utopia besides you? Did I miss it?

Cool so you don't believe a perfect utopia is achievable by humanity. Good to hear it.

It has been a dogma of a lot of new agers and people who believe in the "evolution" of mankind that we will inexorably achieve a utopian society. Because the evolution being a kind of wisdom/spiritual evolution can lead only to a perfected man, free from the limitations of his ancestors.

nalaws said:
While religions farm the continuous supply of individuals seeking a path by filling them with false or preposterous hopes- sounds to me like your "elites" work closer than you acknowledge with religions.

Adstar wrote:What elites? In my faith there are no elites other than God. I do not follow any man. I follow my conscience to my God.
How can I be assured that the conscience of a person I don't know is right?

Well you cannot. All you can do is read what they have to say and consider it. You make the final decision regarding what information you read.

Do you follow the conscience of unknown people on the internet,

No. But i do read them and consider them.

or do you only suggest we do it when it is your conscience? That would seem very unwise if you ask me.

I suggest you consider. But i agree it is not wise to follow any man. And as i am a man be wise and don't follow me.

Adstar wrote:No. I am expecting things to get a lot worse in the next couple of years. Mark my words in your memory, see if I am correct.
My mother has been telling me this since I was a child.

Well have you come to the end of your life having seen that your mothers words where wrong? Nope youre still alive and your future in this world is still in play.

I don't know you well enough to believe you somehow have special knowledge.

Strange i cannot relate to this sentence. Just how well would you have to know someone to believe they had special knowledge? Like what kind of knowledge about them would make you believe they had special knowledge?

I do believe that bad events will continue to happen, and when they do, you can claim "look, I told you", and then feel special if that is what you are after.

Oh No No No. What i want is to plant a seek of knowledge about the future into the minds of people whom God is going to draw out of unbelief ( Or deception)towards the end of the current age. Once a person sees for themselves the things i have been talking about happening before their eyes they will remember that a follower of Jesus told them about it before. Then they will open their minds to the reality of God and they will seek Him with great earnestly.

See even if i have already been beheaded for my witness to Jesus i can still be used by God to move people from beyond the grave. Because the seed has already been planted and will germinate when the future is revealed.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Clownboat · Post by **Clownboat** » Wed May 04, 2011 11:36 am

Clownboat wrote: I don't know you well enough to believe you somehow have special knowledge.

Adstar wrote: Strange i cannot relate to this sentence. Just how well would you have to know someone to believe they had special knowledge? Like what kind of knowledge about them would make you believe they had special knowledge?

I have never met anyone that I felt had special knowledge from any god. All that I have heard make that claim, seem to suffer from a sort of religious paranoia.

People are just so unwilling to get help when they truly believe they are doing the work of a god.

nzlaws · Post by **nzlaws** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:03 am

Clownboat wrote:I have never met anyone that I felt had special knowledge from any god. All that I have heard make that claim, seem to suffer from a sort of religious paranoia.

People are just so unwilling to get help when they truly believe they are doing the work of a god.

Hi- Clownboat
I agree with you on this one as I have seen some evidence and believe it has something to do with balance.

Communications of any nature have an influence upon us Music Books TV and the other Media's etc- We usually get some form of choice as to the type of information we enjoy but there is usually an element of "Hobson's Choice" involved in the mix, each (as intended) has an influence in some manner upon that balance which can (for some) cut rather deep- as do marriage break ups and a variety of other stimuli.

We are living through times when the abundance of real and imaginative stimuli is multiplied significantly by evolving technology and can expect problems associated with communications to develop- fortunately there is help for those that lose the plot entirely- There is often reluctance to accept this help though because of its historical background which is not good- two examples come to mind
1/At one point in recent history if a man wanted to end his relationship with his wife he could have her institutionalised- it is doubtful this would have been good for her and makes one wonder about the abilities to determine real problems by those professionals within those institutions- great facilities for experimenting with drugs etc
2/ Shock treatment- which was shocking treatment?

On the other hand we are living through times that are that unbalanced globally - not just in terms of War and other Crimes of Violence against fellow mankind but also in terms of balancing the human needs against the planets ability to sustain life- a heavy burden for young generations being educated about the problem while also being able to see that the problem is not being addressed with the sense of importance required- while political economies rule (monopoly games for adults?).
As such it could easily be said that even a sane person born into an insane society would be subjected to influences that would eventually effect those balances and peer pressure would either result in his/her assimilation or admonishment by those peers- balances can be tricky to determine.

There are many Inspired by religious scriptures that can get confused about the origin of "special knowledge" but it is difficult to determine one individuals motivating factors from another's really- without "special knowledge"

What stands to reason to me might not to others- for example that old saying "We are all in the same Boat" when applied to the Planets deterioration due to the escalation of exploitation would suggest that a joint effort would be required to address the problem with the determination seen when whole Nations go to War (shared and determined purpose) millions of jobs available there!-
Many would dismiss this point of view and no doubt consider it to be somewhat irrational- but those same people would not be concerned about the number of unemployed or the fact that to at least some extent these numbers are resultant from improved technologies replacing workforces- meanwhile the type of some jobs available hardly warrants an education at all such as dancing around in a Chicken outfit to attract customers to Kentucky fried corpse stores (almost an insult to ones intelligence?) sad thing is that it is considered employment.

Small wonder the volume of problems associated with balance when it is extremely difficult to get ten people to agree on any one thing- and we have Corporate/Business oriented media busily engineering opinions or influencing and/or determining Values.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" (unless you tie him up there- until his thirst quenches your desire for him to do so)

.
.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Thu May 05, 2011 9:24 am

Clownboat wrote:
Clownboat wrote: I don't know you well enough to believe you somehow have special knowledge.

Adstar wrote: Strange i cannot relate to this sentence. Just how well would you have to know someone to believe they had special knowledge? Like what kind of knowledge about them would make you believe they had special knowledge?

I have never met anyone that I felt had special knowledge from any god. All that I have heard make that claim, seem to suffer from a sort of religious paranoia.

People are just so unwilling to get help when they truly believe they are doing the work of a god.

What kind of Help are you Referring to in your above post. Please be clear I would like to know.

And as for your projection of religious paranoia upon me i find that offensive, and you have made an all covering statement that all people you have talked to who believe they have received a message from God suffer from paranoia. This is a blanket and therefore offensive statement. We all must be mindful to keep our discussions polite mustnt we.

As for me i don't see i am in need of any help. I am seeking to help others. To give them wisdom that saves.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Debating Christianity and Religion

Right now..Lawless Days of Prophecy?

Right now..Lawless Days of Prophecy?

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