Questions for Mormons

[DarkMaster24]

Do you believe that if you do the right things and get sealed in the temple that you can become gods of your own universe? Is there more to it then just that?

What does the Holy Spirit mean to you? Is the Holy Spirit the father of Christ?

How was Jesus conceived according to your church's view?

Are there any other gods besides the Father?

[Katzpur]

Well, this is an old thread, and I don't even know if DarkMaster, who started it, is still around. I just spotted it, though, and thought I'd answer the questions, in case anyone is interested.

Do you believe that if you do the right things and get sealed in the temple that you can become gods of your own universe? Is there more to it then just that?

There is a lot more to it than that, and I'm going to tell you a whole lot more than you're probably interested in knowing. The Latter-day Saints are frequently accused of believing that they can, at some point in the future, become "Gods." Understandably, to many who do not fully understand our doctrine, the mere idea is out-and-out heresy.

But, let's start by changing “Gods� to “gods.� That lower-case “g� makes a world of difference in the meaning of the word. Next, before we really get started, let's clear up two big, big misconceptions:

(1) We do not believe that any of us will ever be equal to God, our Eternal Father in Heaven. He will always be our God and we will always worship Him.

(2) Nothing we could possibly do on our own could exalt us to the level of deity. It is only through the will and grace of God that man is given this potential. And "with God, nothing is impossible."

We believe, as you may know, that ours is a restoration of the very Church Jesus Christ established during His ministry here on earth. It would follow, then, that we believe we are teaching the same doctrines as were taught then and accepted by Jesus’ followers. Throughout the New Testament, there are indications that this doctrine (known as deification or exaltation) is not one the Latter-day Saints invented, but that the earliest Christians understood and believed it, as well.

Romans 8:16-17, 2 Peter 1:4, Revelation 2:26-27 and Revelation 3:21 are the four I like best. Through these verses, we learn that, as children of God, we may also be His heirs, joint-heirs with Christ, even glorified with Him. We might partake of the nature of divinity and be allowed to sit with our Savior on His throne, to rule over the nations.

Now, if these promises are true (as I believe they are), what do they all boil down to? To the Latter-day Saints, they mean that we have the potential to someday, be “godlike.� One of our prophets explained that "we are gods in embryo." If our Father is divine and we are literally his "offspring", as the Bible teaches we are, is it really such a stretch of the imagination to believe that he has endowed each of us with a spark of divinity?

Finally, there is considerable evidence that the doctrine of deification was taught for quite some time after the Savior’s death, and accepted as orthodox. Some of the most well-known and respected of the early Christian Fathers made statements that were remarkably close to the statements LDS leaders have made. I'll not bother to give examples at this time, but would be happy to if anyone is intererested.

Even the noted Christian theologian, C.S. Lewis, said much the same thing in his book "Mere Christianity."

“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods� and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

Finally, according to The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology, “Deification (Greek theosis) is for Orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is made in the image and likeness of God…. It is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become god by grace.�

What does the Holy Spirit mean to you? Is the Holy Spirit the father of Christ?

The Holy Spirit (generally referred to as "the Holy Ghost" by the Latter-day Saints) is the third personage of the Godhead. The Holy Ghost is the Unlike the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost is a person of spirit only. It is by virtue of this quality that He is able to both fill the universe and dwell in our hearts. It is through the Holy Ghost that God communicates to mankind. We come to understand spiritual truths through the witnessing of the Holy Ghost, who communicates with us on a spiritual plane. It is through Him that we come to know the Father and the Son. We do not believe that the Holy Ghost is the father of Jesus Christ. We believe that God the Father is the Father of Jesus Christ. The scripture say that the Holy Ghost came upon Mary at the time of the conception, so we know He was present at that time. But Jesus is the Son of "the Highest" and "the Highest" is God the Eternal Father, not the Holy Ghost.

How was Jesus conceived according to your church's view?

Jesus was miraculously conceived by a means that God has never revealed to mankind. We know only what the scriptures tell us, and that is that He was born to a Virgin. He has a divine Father and a mortal mother. (I know where you're going with this question, but trust me, you're headed in the wrong direction.)

Are there any other gods besides the Father?

In 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, the Apostle Paul is recorded as having said, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

The LDS view is that there is only one God (with a capital 'G') but that there are beings referred to in the Bible (in the verse I just quoted as well as in several others) as "gods." There are times when these are clearly false gods. At other times, though, it appears from the context in which the word "gods" is used that they are perhaps divine beings of some sort who also look to our "God" as the greatest among them. The Bible doesn't really explain who they are or what their roles are. It just refers to "God" as "God of gods, and Lord of lords, [and] a great God." If we just arbitrarily assume that all of the "gods" mentioned are false gods, what does that make our God -- the God of false gods? Of course not.

Anyway, we don't know anything about these gods, except that they have no power or jurisdiction in our lives. We don't pray to them, because they can't answer our prayers. We don't worship them, because they have done nothing for us, nor do they have the ability to. As far as we're concerned, they simply appear to exist.

[officer2002]

Do you believe that if you do the right things and get sealed in the temple that you can become gods of your own universe? Is there more to it then just that?

Are there any other gods besides the Father?

"...your own universe?..." I don't know if I will have my own universe or if someone will have the neighboring solar system. God is literally the father of my spirit. I can become like him just as physically I have become like my earthly father and just like a caterpiller will become like the butterfly which laid its egg.

Lorenzo Snow asked Joseph Smith Jr. if a thought that he was having was true and Joseph Smith said that it was. The thought was "As man is God once was and as God is man may become." (that last story and quote are from my memory) According to Doctrine and Covenants 132:29 "Abraham(the one in Genesis)... hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.". In other words, atleast Abraham (maybe others but he is the only one specifically named in scriptures) by 1843 had become a god.

[AmazingJesusIs]

1) As a member of the LDS church, have you read the passage in the King James Version, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

How can you trust your "burning in the bosom" if the heart is wicked like it is described above?


2) Also, is it true that the LORD revealed himself to Mr. Smith as an angel of light?

In 2 Corinthians 11:14 tells us "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (KJV).

How can you trust what that angel of light 'revealed' to Joseph?

[Kuan]

1) As a member of the LDS church, have you read the passage in the King James Version, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

How can you trust your "burning in the bosom" if the heart is wicked like it is described above?

True, but we interpret that as the natural man.

2) Also, is it true that the LORD revealed himself to Mr. Smith as an angel of light?

In 2 Corinthians 11:14 tells us "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (KJV).

How can you trust what that angel of light 'revealed' to Joseph?

No one has ever talked about the lord revealing himself as an angel of light.

[AmazingJesusIs]

1) As a member of the LDS church, have you read the passage in the King James Version, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

How can you trust your "burning in the bosom" if the heart is wicked like it is described above?

True, but we interpret that as the natural man.

How do you come to that?

2) Also, is it true that the LORD revealed himself to Mr. Smith as an angel of light?

In 2 Corinthians 11:14 tells us "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (KJV).

How can you trust what that angel of light 'revealed' to Joseph?

No one has ever talked about the lord revealing himself as an angel of light.

What do you think they were?

[Katzpur]

1) As a member of the LDS church, have you read the passage in the King James Version, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

How can you trust your "burning in the bosom" if the heart is wicked like it is described above?

You will, of course, recall Jesus' words to Peter in Matthew 16:17 (in response to Peter's declaration that He was "the Christ, the Son of the living God"): "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

The phrase "buring in the bosom" is simply meant to convey the feeling of peace and assurance one feels when the Holy Ghost has borne witness of a spiritual truth. Nobody comes to recognize spiritual truth without having received that witness. When it comes, it is a powerful conviction. The Holy Ghost does not lie, and can be trusted to reveal the truth of all things to anyone who searches for truth with a sincere heart.

2) Also, is it true that the LORD revealed himself to Mr. Smith as an angel of light?

In 2 Corinthians 11:14 tells us "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (KJV).

How can you trust what that angel of light 'revealed' to Joseph?

Uh... no, that's not the case. Why would Satan try to convince us that Jesus Christ is our Savior and the only means by which we can be reconciled to God? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Does it to you?

[Katzpur]

1) As a member of the LDS church, have you read the passage in the King James Version, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

How can you trust your "burning in the bosom" if the heart is wicked like it is described above?

You will, of course, recall Jesus' words to Peter in Matthew 16:17 (in response to Peter's declaration that He was "the Christ, the Son of the living God"): "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

The phrase "buring in the bosom" is simply meant to convey the feeling of peace and assurance one feels when the Holy Ghost has borne witness of a spiritual truth. Nobody comes to recognize spiritual truth without having received that witness. When it comes, it is a powerful conviction. The Holy Ghost does not lie, and can be trusted to reveal the truth of all things to anyone who searches for truth with a sincere heart.

2) Also, is it true that the LORD revealed himself to Mr. Smith as an angel of light?

In 2 Corinthians 11:14 tells us "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (KJV).

How can you trust what that angel of light 'revealed' to Joseph?

Uh... no, that's not the case. Why would Satan have taught that Jesus Christ is our Savior and the only means by which we can be reconciled to God? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Does it to you?

[Kuan]

1) As a member of the LDS church, have you read the passage in the King James Version, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

How can you trust your "burning in the bosom" if the heart is wicked like it is described above?

True, but we interpret that as the natural man.

How do you come to that?

By considering scriptures and thinking about it. Katzpur provided a good scripture.

2) Also, is it true that the LORD revealed himself to Mr. Smith as an angel of light?

In 2 Corinthians 11:14 tells us "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (KJV).

How can you trust what that angel of light 'revealed' to Joseph?

No one has ever talked about the lord revealing himself as an angel of light.

What do you think they were?

Well, I think that the way Joseph Smith described them is what they were.

When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

[sleepyhead]

Nobody comes to recognize spiritual truth without having received that witness. When it comes, it is a powerful conviction. The Holy Ghost does not lie, and can be trusted to reveal the truth of all things to anyone who searches for truth with a sincere heart.

One of the benefits of having the Edgar Cayce material is that he provided information with regards to obtaining information from the highest source possible. He had a psychologist observing him for a few years and he was able to make some observations with regards to what steps were helpful in contacting this higher source. When information proved to be wrong EC went back and tried to determine when it was wrong.

One major teaching is that while searching for truth may be promoted as a good thing, knowing some truth may not be a value to you or to anyone else. The Holy Ghost may not feel it's necesarily important that you know the truth.