Reducing the number of abortions

[mrmufin]

Otseng has mentioned this topic a few times, and I think it's worthy of discussion:

How can the number of abortions be lowered?

Remember, folks: this forum is for discussion toward a common objective, not for debate on the issue of abortion...

Regards,
mrmufin

[otseng]

I think you might have missed the point of Unfaithful.

Well, I wasn't trying to explain any points of the movie. But, I mention that movie because it explored what are the consequences of our actions. How many movies talk about what can happen when you have sex with a stranger? In the case of Unfaithful, she didn't get pregnant, but it showed how it affected the marriage. My point was more that we need more movies that delve into the consequences of our actions.

Back to limiting abortions, would people agree that parents of minors needs to be notified if their child is going to have an abortive procedure? (Or should this be a debate question?)

I was also trying to think of some root issues of why people have abortions. Why are there unwanted pregnancies? Seems like there are several situations where a pregnancy would be unwanted:
- Partners are not married
- Partners are not "ready" for children
- Partners cannot support the child
- Partners do not want more children
- Forced limitation by government (China)

[Nyril]

Back to limiting abortions, would people agree that parents of minors needs to be notified if their child is going to have an abortive procedure? (Or should this be a debate question?)

I'm against this. All the way. And I'm willing to discuss it.

[mrmufin]

I think a lot of good ideas have been expressed herein. I think it's also apparent that any effective strategy toward reducing the number of abortions is going to need to be multifaceted. There simply is no one size fits all ginsu quick fix. Tactics in the strategy should include:

1) Education. Children (as well as some adults) need to understand the consequences of sexual activity, birth control effectiveness, and the costs and responsibilities of child rearing. The first step needs to be open, honest discussion and sharing of information related to pregnancy and prevention.

2) Effective and accessible contraception. While abstinence education has its merits and should be taught and considered, we need to accept as fact that people (particularly teenagers) are going to be engaging in sexual activity. Preventing unwanted pregnancies is a key strategy, and prevention among the sexually active means proper use of contraception.

3) Counseling, outreach, support, and association. There are a great many couples who are unable to bear children, and a great many pregnant women who do not want a child and may be reluctant and/or uncomfortable with getting an abortion. Perhaps a network to associate wanting couples with unwanting women... Something of this type could provide a persuasive component for a woman to carry a fetus to term, with the knowledge that the child will end up in a home where it is truly wanted.

4) Sterilization. Some folks just don't want any children and that's that. If that truly is the case, go for the operation.

Back to limiting abortions, would people agree that parents of minors needs to be notified if their child is going to have an abortive procedure? (Or should this be a debate question?)

I'm also against this. It sounds like an excellent topic for debate.

Regards,
mrmufin

[Icarus]

How about removing the shame of being pregnant.

That shame being from the individual or from society. The shame also being single, underage, an affair...

Remove the judgementalism from us as society (both religious and non religious). Accept the "mistake" and move on to helping the parties involved into a real world solution.

[bdbthinker]

I'm a left-leaning libertarian, politically. The only reason I bring this up is because abortion is a political issue and to make any changes to abortion laws require political action.

I think education is the key here. Abstinance education is A-OK by me as long as it's done without religous overtones. Children also need education on different birth control methods and facts regarding pregnancy and STDs. I was fortunate enough to get this type of education by Planned Parenthood in my highschool. They taught us about birth control AND abstinance. When I became "of age", I knew how to use a condom correctly and knew there were certain steps she could take as well to prevent pregnancy.

Anyway, that was a few years ago, I don't know how sex ed. is handled in highschools/middleschools now, but I found the class very informative and it answered some questions i had about sex at the time.

How about removing the shame of being pregnant.

I agree Icarus, but unfortunalty, we live in a country where religous dogma is part of our culture. No one can force a change like this, society has to change on its own. IMO, education can be a catalyst for this type of change.

[eveil42]

please tell the rest of the world that women feel the most shame. this is true. Icarus points out something. can we remove the shame that is bestowed on to women?
eveilgrl

[BeHereNow]

The shame is good, but it is misguided.
The shame is not in being pregnant and having a child, it is in expecting others to pay for ones mistake. If young mothers and fathers felt shame at having parents, grandparents, and society pay for and provide for the care of their children they might become less likely to be pregnant for the second, third time. Their friends might never become pregnant the first time.

4) Sterilization. Some folks just don't want any children and that's that. If that truly is the case, go for the operation.

Add to this that some folks don’t think about being pregnant until after they are so, and we have a good case for sterilization incentives. Get them thinking about it early on. A $5000 bonus for voluntary sterilization would go a long way towards reducing abortions. Every little bit helps.

[ST88]

A cautionary tale for those who promote abstinence-only education.

Consider abstinence education, which has come under increased scrutiny following a new study published by Yale and Columbia University. In the study, research indicates teens who take abstinence pledges are more likely to engage in other types of risky sexual behavior, such as oral and anal sex. The data seems to back up the previous study showing students who signed abstinence pledges were equally as likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases as other students...

One study in Bush's home state of Texas showed students in 29 high schools become increasingly sexually active following these courses.

Another study prepared for Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman showed that up to 80 percent of the information presented in these courses was misleading, distorted or outright false.

For instance, the report said abstinence-only programs tend to teach children condoms are ineffective in the prevention of STDs and pregnancy. Other messages included misleading health information about abortions...
Abstinence education fails

If true, it would confirm what those on the Left side of this issue have been saying all along. You can't stop sexual activity among young people. The theory behind the findings of the report is that students who accept "abstinence" and take "virginity pledges" do not engage in vaginal sex. The students believe that they are maintaining their virginity and that other forms of sex do not amount to violating abstinence. This means that even though these young people are not in danger of unwanted pregnancies, they are in danger of contracting and spreading STDs. Condom education is not a part of many abstinence programs, and so these same young people do not use condoms, even for anal sex.

Even assuming that abstinence education reduces the number of abortions, which has not been proven or even suggested by the data; if reducing the number of abortions is your goal, then fine, but if you try to do this blindly, without taking things like health into account, then you are jeopardizing well-being for a cultural ideal.

This is exactly why I am only for abstinence education when it is complemented by regular sex education. Teaching kids not to have sex is OK by me, but don't expect that they will follow the teaching just because you've told them how bad it can be.

[Vladd44]

When you take into consideration European countries have a much more realistic approach to teen sexuality yet they also have much lower incidents of STD, abortions, teen pregnancy, lower number of sexual partners and teens begin having sex at a later age than american teens. It seems to be relatively obvious that our puritanical viewpoint is very counterproductive.

[NaturalWay]

Convince the overwhelming majority of people that it is wrong. Now concepts like right and wrong come from ultimately from a philosophy or worldview. Most Christians believe that abortion is wrong. There are some notable exceptions, though. Another approach would be to make a reasoned and logical argument that extends a principle of secular philosophy such as Objectivism.

For example, one non-negotiable principle many Christians and non-Christians alike can agree on is that each person owns his or her own life. From this idea, one reasons that slavery is wrong. Now, given that principle which you must advance, it should be straightforward to use genetics to show that the fetus is a distinct person and therefore owns its own life.