Im new to this board but have always loved debating people on this topic. The one question that has never been answered to my satifaction is which came first the chicken or the egg? If this been addressed please point me to the link.
Thank you
which came first
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William
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Post #42
[Replying to post 41 by Neatras]
Following you apparent line of reasoning then, what came first the chicken or the chicken egg?Yeah. Egg before. Chicken much, much later.
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DrNoGods
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Post #43
[Replying to post 42 by William]
(watch the video at the bottom)
https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2 ... n-or-the-e... what came first the chicken or the chicken egg?
(watch the video at the bottom)
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
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William
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Post #44
[Replying to post 43 by DrNoGods]
I think that the philosophical question is pointing to something else rather than just chickens and eggs.
(But certainly, taking the question literally, I have no problem with the videos conclusion.)
The philosophical question speaks to the dilemma beings with beginnings have in relation to how the universe came into existence where there is no evidence of anything else.
We theorize that the beginning (call it the 'chicken') of the universe was the Big Bang (BB) event, but we need the 'egg', so we theorize before the chicken hatched some called infinite density (ID) existed and thus we have the 'egg' but we still also have the dilemma because we do not know what produced that egg.
That is the focus of the question.
I think that the philosophical question is pointing to something else rather than just chickens and eggs.
(But certainly, taking the question literally, I have no problem with the videos conclusion.)
The philosophical question speaks to the dilemma beings with beginnings have in relation to how the universe came into existence where there is no evidence of anything else.
We theorize that the beginning (call it the 'chicken') of the universe was the Big Bang (BB) event, but we need the 'egg', so we theorize before the chicken hatched some called infinite density (ID) existed and thus we have the 'egg' but we still also have the dilemma because we do not know what produced that egg.
That is the focus of the question.
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studentgary
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Post #45
This argument reminds me of a Mobius Strip.
We go around in circles turning ourselves upside down and wrong side up.
The modern chicken is a bird and under current theories, birds are decedents of dinosaurs.
So the question is not which came first, but 'from which dinosaur'?
We go around in circles turning ourselves upside down and wrong side up.
The modern chicken is a bird and under current theories, birds are decedents of dinosaurs.
So the question is not which came first, but 'from which dinosaur'?
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DrNoGods
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Post #46
[Replying to post 44 by William]
Sorry ... I didn't realize it was that deep. It appeared to be a discussion on the actual chicken vs. egg question, and which came first. But if the debate is on the Big Bang and the specific details on what precipitated that, or preceded that, I'm out of my league. I can understand the extrapolation concept that leads to the BB hypothesis based on present observations of the expanding universe, but when people start talking Planck time scales and what happened at those kinds of tiny intervals, I have no ability to know if it has any validity or not and can only be a spectator.
That is the focus of the question.
Sorry ... I didn't realize it was that deep. It appeared to be a discussion on the actual chicken vs. egg question, and which came first. But if the debate is on the Big Bang and the specific details on what precipitated that, or preceded that, I'm out of my league. I can understand the extrapolation concept that leads to the BB hypothesis based on present observations of the expanding universe, but when people start talking Planck time scales and what happened at those kinds of tiny intervals, I have no ability to know if it has any validity or not and can only be a spectator.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
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Bust Nak
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Post #47
Had that was the focus then there is a simple answer, the 'egg' came first.William wrote: The philosophical question speaks to the dilemma beings with beginnings have in relation to how the universe came into existence where there is no evidence of anything else.
We theorize that the beginning (call it the 'chicken') of the universe was the Big Bang (BB) event, but we need the 'egg', so we theorize before the chicken hatched some called infinite density (ID) existed and thus we have the 'egg' but we still also have the dilemma because we do not know what produced that egg.
That is the focus of the question.
The chicken or egg question was a conundrum because of the cyclic/circular nature of chicken and egg (...chicken->egg->chicken...) There is no circular equivalent with the universe.
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William
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Post #48
[Replying to post 47 by Bust Nak]
You are ignoring the philosophical reason the question was first asked.
The universe began. A chicken begins.There is no circular equivalent with the universe.
You are ignoring the philosophical reason the question was first asked.
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Bust Nak
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Post #49
I am not ignoring it, I am dismissing it: The philosophical reason the question was first asked is because of the circular nature of chicken and egg. Naively you need a chicken to get an egg, and you need an egg to get a chicken, so which came first is considered a problem. The same does not apply to the universe, there is no circular equivalent with the universe. You need an "infinite density" as you called it to get a universe, and that's it. There is no circular reference here, as you don't need a universe to birth an infinite density.William wrote: The universe began. A chicken begins.
You are ignoring the philosophical reason the question was first asked.
