Christianity and women's rights.

[ithinkthereforeiam]

Has christianity been good for women's rights or a hindrance? Has it been a force that has pushed for women's equality? Please give examples to back up your statements.


I'll start. I think it has been a hindrance. One example is in the US, which supposedly was founded as a christian nation, did not give women the right to vote until 1920. Or how about no women priests?

[TheMessage]

Definantly a hinderance. The bible is full of passages telling women to be obediant servants and to be unquestioning of their husbands. When they have a period they're even supposed to go live in a hut.

Clearly the sexism and misogyny in bible aren't a helpful force for women's rights... how could they be?

[jgh7]

Id say that the majority of Christian history has leaned more on the side of hinderance, or perhaps not promotive. Although NT verses on marriage stress that husband and wife are supposed to look out for each other and care for one another, they do seem to give off the air that man is the leader and woman the supporter. There's also one verse which seems to reflect the social order at the time, one showing a lower status for women, and this has carried over throughout that centuries. It can't be denied that there is a certain inequality for women that shows sometimes in the writings of the New Testament.

Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. (1 Timothy 2:11-15)

You hear that women?!! Keep Quiet!! (Just kidding)
With respect to recent times, Christianity seems to be trying harder to emphasize an equality between man and woman. I'm speaking for Protestantism since many of their denominations are allowing for women pastors. Catholicism... well, they haven't changed much Christianity seems to change as our society changes, and now it's more for equality between men and women, although it probably still holds the biblical view that men are meant to be the protectors/leaders to some extent.

[JoeyKnothead]

Id say that the majority of Christian history has leaned more on the side of hinderance, or perhaps not promotive. Although NT verses on marriage stress that husband and wife are supposed to look out for each other and care for one another, they do seem to give off the air that man is the leader and woman the supporter. There's also one verse which seems to reflect the social order at the time, one showing a lower status for women, and this has carried over throughout that centuries. It can't be denied that there is a certain inequality for women that shows sometimes in the writings of the New Testament.

Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. (1 Timothy 2:11-15)

You hear that women?!! Keep Quiet!! (Just kidding)
With respect to recent times, Christianity seems to be trying harder to emphasize an equality between man and woman. I'm speaking for Protestantism since many of their denominations are allowing for women pastors. Catholicism... well, they haven't changed much Christianity seems to change as our society changes, and now it's more for equality between men and women, although it probably still holds the biblical view that men are meant to be the protectors/leaders to some extent.

Is "God's word" negotiable?

Is there any way I can get a pass on that whole not coveting the neighbor's wife deal?

[Zzyzx]

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Has christianity been good for women's rights or a hindrance? Has it been a force that has pushed for women's equality? Please give examples to back up your statements.

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Most religions with which I am familiar (only a tiny portion of the tens of thousands currently popular) – including Christianity and Islam – are MALE DOMINATED -- very chauvinistic.

Women are often regarded as little more than cattle (breeding stock). If one of them has "unauthorized sex" she can be exiled or killed, if she chooses a mate or an associate from the "wrong" religion or caste she can be killed. Women are often not allowed to speak in church or to be church officials.

Some religions are more chauvinistic than others. One of the most chauvinistic in current US society is the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints – FLDS – polygamous cult. An estimated ten thousand people practice the "religion" that "teaches" that a man must have at least three wives to "attain the celestial kingdom" and that a woman can only get there by being "sealed" to a man who is going. Women are property of their father until assigned to a husband, then they become his property.

Current major sects differ in degree of chauvinism. Are any free of the defect?

[Easyrider]

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Has christianity been good for women's rights or a hindrance? Has it been a force that has pushed for women's equality? Please give examples to back up your statements.

.
Most religions with which I am familiar (only a tiny portion of the tens of thousands currently popular) – including Christianity and Islam – are MALE DOMINATED -- very chauvinistic.

Women are often regarded as little more than cattle (breeding stock). If one of them has "unauthorized sex" she can be exiled or killed, if she chooses a mate or an associate from the "wrong" religion or caste she can be killed. Women are often not allowed to speak in church or to be church officials.

Some religions are more chauvinistic than others. One of the most chauvinistic in current US society is the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints – FLDS – polygamous cult. An estimated ten thousand people practice the "religion" that "teaches" that a man must have at least three wives to "attain the celestial kingdom" and that a woman can only get there by being "sealed" to a man who is going. Women are property of their father until assigned to a husband, then they become his property.

Current major sects differ in degree of chauvinism. Are any free of the defect?

I suppose no one has given you a better Scriptural/Biblical model of how important women are to God, how Jesus treated them, and that there is a teaching in the NT that even men should sumit to their wives (this is more of a mutual submission). I think you overgeneralized your arguments because you are unfamiliar with the Word of God. So this should help you.

From the link below:

"Many women don't like what the Bible says because it calls wives to "submit to their husbands."25 However, submission is not limited to wives submitting to their husbands. We are told to submit to God,26 governmental authorities,27 our boss,28 and leaders in the church.29 We are also told to submit to one another, which includes men submitting women and vice versa.30 God is a God of order. In a sinful world, submission to those in authority is the only way to maintain order. What form does this submission to authority take? In every instance where submission is called for wives, it is conditioned with the phrase "as to the Lord" or some other reference to Jesus Christ. The submission takes on the form of being in the will of God. If the husband asks the wife to do something outside the will of Christ, she is under no obligation to follow him. Accompanying each command for wives to submit to their husbands is the command for the husband to love his wife.31 In the book of Ephesians, this love is to be "just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." Such a love is not one that dominates and subjugates another person, but a self-sacrificing love that will give up its own life for another's."

It would probably be good for you to read the following article to see where and how you are overreacting.

Sexism in the Bible: Is Christianity Sexist?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sexism.html

[micatala]

.

Has christianity been good for women's rights or a hindrance? Has it been a force that has pushed for women's equality? Please give examples to back up your statements.

.
Most religions with which I am familiar (only a tiny portion of the tens of thousands currently popular) – including Christianity and Islam – are MALE DOMINATED -- very chauvinistic.

Women are often regarded as little more than cattle (breeding stock). If one of them has "unauthorized sex" she can be exiled or killed, if she chooses a mate or an associate from the "wrong" religion or caste she can be killed. Women are often not allowed to speak in church or to be church officials.

Some religions are more chauvinistic than others. One of the most chauvinistic in current US society is the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints – FLDS – polygamous cult. An estimated ten thousand people practice the "religion" that "teaches" that a man must have at least three wives to "attain the celestial kingdom" and that a woman can only get there by being "sealed" to a man who is going. Women are property of their father until assigned to a husband, then they become his property.

Current major sects differ in degree of chauvinism. Are any free of the defect?

I suppose no one has given you a better Scriptural/Biblical model of how important women are to God, how Jesus treated them, and that there is a teaching in the NT that even men should sumit to their wives (this is more of a mutual submission). I think you overgeneralized your arguments because you are unfamiliar with the Word of God. So this should help you.

From the link below:

"Many women don't like what the Bible says because it calls wives to "submit to their husbands."25 However, submission is not limited to wives submitting to their husbands. We are told to submit to God,26 governmental authorities,27 our boss,28 and leaders in the church.29 We are also told to submit to one another, which includes men submitting women and vice versa.30 God is a God of order. In a sinful world, submission to those in authority is the only way to maintain order. What form does this submission to authority take? In every instance where submission is called for wives, it is conditioned with the phrase "as to the Lord" or some other reference to Jesus Christ. The submission takes on the form of being in the will of God. If the husband asks the wife to do something outside the will of Christ, she is under no obligation to follow him. Accompanying each command for wives to submit to their husbands is the command for the husband to love his wife.31 In the book of Ephesians, this love is to be "just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." Such a love is not one that dominates and subjugates another person, but a self-sacrificing love that will give up its own life for another's."

It would probably be good for you to read the following article to see where and how you are overreacting.

Sexism in the Bible: Is Christianity Sexist?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sexism.html

The link posted by Easyrider makes several points, one of which is that Paul's and Jesus' teachings on women were remarkably progressive for their day, and that we should understand the teachings in the context of the culture to which they are addressed.

I entirely agree with this latter point.

Many societies have been "patriarchal" and male-dominated. This cultural feature is often reflected in the religions and religious writings of those cultures. Most Christians today do not feel bound by the cultural traditions that are reflected in the Bible, including those that relate to gender roles. Christians can also point to other verses, again see Easyrider's link, which seem to contradict that "discriminatory" aspect of the teaching, or at least ameliorate it.



The question really comes down to "is it necessary for Christians today to retain the cultural traditions of biblical times or teachings which reflect those cultural traditions or biases simply because that is what was practiced or believed in biblical times?"

[ithinkthereforeiam]

I suppose no one has given you a better Scriptural/Biblical model of how important women are to God, how Jesus treated them, and that there is a teaching in the NT that even men should sumit to their wives (this is more of a mutual submission). I think you overgeneralized your arguments because you are unfamiliar with the Word of God. So this should help you.

From the link below:

"Many women don't like what the Bible says because it calls wives to "submit to their husbands."25 However, submission is not limited to wives submitting to their husbands. We are told to submit to God,26 governmental authorities,27 our boss,28 and leaders in the church.29 We are also told to submit to one another, which includes men submitting women and vice versa.30 God is a God of order. In a sinful world, submission to those in authority is the only way to maintain order. What form does this submission to authority take? In every instance where submission is called for wives, it is conditioned with the phrase "as to the Lord" or some other reference to Jesus Christ. The submission takes on the form of being in the will of God. If the husband asks the wife to do something outside the will of Christ, she is under no obligation to follow him. Accompanying each command for wives to submit to their husbands is the command for the husband to love his wife.31 In the book of Ephesians, this love is to be "just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." Such a love is not one that dominates and subjugates another person, but a self-sacrificing love that will give up its own life for another's."

It would probably be good for you to read the following article to see where and how you are overreacting.

Sexism in the Bible: Is Christianity Sexist?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sexism.html

How many leaders and apostles in the bible were women?

So, you're saying the bible has been a guide for equal rights for women?
And don't tell me the bible was just reflecting the cultural times, because everyone says the bible is the word of god. The word of god.

[OpenedUp]

I've started quite a collection of quotes form the Bible on this subject in my comings and goings of this forum:

Women

You wives will submit to your husbands as you do to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his body, the church; he gave his life to be her Savior. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything. (Ephesians 5:22-24)

Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord. (Colossians 3:18)


As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

Woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

Give no woman power over you to trample upon your dignity. (Sirach 9:2)

3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. (1 Corinthians 11:3-10)

[McCulloch]

I don't have time to weigh in myself on this issue, but a wonderful reference is The Woman's Bible by Elizabeth Cady Stanton (1815-1902). I find it amazing how the observations made over one hundred years ago seem to be still relevant.

It is available for free for download from Project Gutenberg.