Is Christianity harmful to the world?

[Flail]

The topic for debate is not whether Christianity is the 'truth'...rather let us assume,just for the purposes of debate, that it is false.

McCulloch hit on this point in a recent post. Let us assume that a Priest or Minister in the Faith,comes to a conclusion later in life that what he has been preaching is false or 'philisophically unsuportable'....he rejects his faith internally but,seeing that what is expected of him by his family and others around him and that his membership relys upon and gains peace from his preaching...should he continue?

ie...assuming Christianity is false...just for debate purposes....does the good outweigh the bad?....what is the good and what is the harm of Christianity to the world community outside of the issue of eternal salvation and forgiveness of sin???

[JoeyKnothead]

From my experience, yes. When folks use their interpretation of Christianity to harm others, then that is the only conclusion I can draw.

[Zzyzx]

.

ie...assuming Christianity is false...just for debate purposes....does the good outweigh the bad?....what is the good and what is the harm of Christianity to the world community outside of the issue of eternal salvation and forgiveness of sin???

What good?

Aside from a little charity work (which must consume only a tiny percentage of church income), what "good" can be claimed? The common claim of high morals cannot be shown to be related to religious beliefs. Behavior cannot be shown to be positively influenced – in spite of opinions to the contrary.

The bad

1. Divisiveness produced by "us vs. them" attitude conveyed by church teachings -- and which leads or can lead to suspicion and conflict.

2. Elitism / superiority -- a common attitude conveyed by many Christians reflecting a belief that the "saved" are superior to others based upon religious beliefs -- and considering Non-Christians to be "heathens", "infidels", and inferiors worthy of pity and "feeling sorry for".

3. Intolerance of the beliefs, practices and lifestyles of others based upon "judgment" from religious bases.

4. Rejection of knowledge and experience that conflicts with Bronze Age "teachings" of book characters that cannot be shown to anything more than fiction or fable. Resistance to new ideas.

5. Consumption of resources in construction of palaces of worship and supporting clerics through sale of religious services (often called donations or tithing).

6. Diversion of focus and energy from other activities to be devoted to worshiping storied invisible supernatural beings.

7. Interference with the life decisions made by devotees to conform to instruction by clerics based upon ancient text.

8. Encouraging belief in supernatural "answers" and "explanations" in lieu of pursuing real world answers and explanations.

[C-Nub]

Zzyxz has brought up a pretty thorough list there, so I haven't got a whole lot to add beyond my 100% agreement with him, except for this;

Religion of any kind, Christianity included, allows the interpreters for that religion, be they priests, rabbis, shaman, preachers, or just affluent politicians on theocratic platforms, to bypass the fundamental morality of the populous and convince them to do very bad things because it is 'God's will' that they be done.

Some will argue that this isn't God's fault, or religion's fault, but to them I have to say, it wouldn't be possible if not for faith.

This is my number one problem with religion, it leaves us open, it leaves us, as a society, vulnerable to manipulation. Everyone, of course, wants to say that they're not capable of that sort of thing, that their faith could never be used to trick them into visiting horrible cruelty on their fellow man, but honestly, we've seen it way too many times throughout history. I won't even bother listing examples. For as long as there has been religion, religion has been a tool of war. It has happened throughout history, and it will continue to happen, well into the future, as it does today all over the world, until we reject the idea that 'faith' is a good thing, a helpful thing.

Faith is by nature blind, and a blind man cannot see where it is others take him.

[Flail]

Zzyx has listed those that I would also list.

I would add:

1.diverting tax dollars from welfare programs and the local and general economy.

2. providing escape from personal responsibility.

3.judging those of different indoctrinations,unworthy of God.

4.Indulgences(prosperity ministry...ie..give money to the church....get money from God.

5.Diverting people from critical thought,philosophy and common sense in favor of idolatry,dogma and superstition.

6.Granting false titles and attendant power to things,people and places,martyrs,legends,visions,angels and prophets,holy books,holy places,holy rituals,relics,incantations,repetitions,beads,salt,wine,water,buildings,gold,statues,prayer,sacriments etc etc....ie...saints,popes,preachers,Mary,Jerry Falwell,Pat Robertson,David Koresh,Jim Jones,Hitler,Benny Hinn,Oral Roberts,

did you know?
..the Roman Catholic Diocese in Boston alone had an estimated $900 million in the stock market one year ago....ouch!!
....the Roman Catholic Diocese for Los Angeles had an estimated 4 Billion in California real estate one year ago....ouch!!
....Rome has paid over 1 Billion in cash to victims of Church pedophilia and child rape.(makes one wonder where this cash was going before the rapes?)
perhaps the secular world they pretend to abhor, will bring this most false religion to it's knees after all....one can hope.

[cnorman18]

I realize that the subject of this thread is supposedly Christianity, but once again I see a lot of complaints directed against religion in general and even a specific reference to rabbis. I feel compelled to register my objections. Virtually none of these pernicious effects can be attributed to modern Judaism. I have written about that rather extensively elsewhere.

For the record, many of them can't even be fairly leveled at modern mainstream liberal Christians. Once again, we are equating ALL religion with Christian fundamentalism, and of a rather benighted and repressive variety at that. It's not accurate, it's not justifiable, and it's not right.

Ye-es, we Jews do have buildings, and rabbis do get paid. So what? Find me a synagogue that cost as much to build as the new Cowboys stadium here in the Dallas area - at taxpayer expense, be it noted. Find me a rabbi that is paid as much as a second-string tackle on that team.

Since I brought it up: Waste of resources? Corruption of values? Hello? If you want to complain about things that block learning, how about pro sports? In my 26 years of teaching, at least half the boys in my classes were utterly indifferent to their academic studies, confident that they were going to be pro football or basketball players. Half. And I am NOT exaggerating in the slightest.

I happily agree with every objection here. Maybe Jews even have a bit of culpability for a few of them. But not all religions, and not even all Christians, are so blameworthy; and in my opinion, there are other institutions in our society that are just as worthy of criticism as the Church.

Don't tell me that spending more money on pro sports than on public education, as we do in the US, is justifiable because it's entertainment. For many people, so is religion, and if you're going to give the NFL a huge pass and billions of dollars because it makes people happy, you can do the same for the Baptists.

Oh, and don't forget: football fans claim that it teaches values, too. Uh-huh.

Do you complain that the Church neglects the poor, but think it's OK for some guy to make $10 million a year because he can throw or catch a ball? Why is that?

Hey, everybody has a pet peeve. For most of you guys, it's fundamentalism, and some of you habitually tar all religion with that brush. For me it's professional sports, particularly the colossal waste of time, money and energy that is the socially-enforced and taxpayer-funded civil religion known here in Texas as Football.

[Zzyzx]

.

Hey, everybody has a pet peeve. For most of you guys, it's fundamentalism, and some of you habitually tar all religion with that brush. For me it's professional sports, particularly the colossal waste of time, money and energy that is the socially-enforced and taxpayer-funded civil religion known here in Texas as Football.

As frequently occurs, I agree with Cnorman's opinion; this time regarding "professional" sports -- but extend the "colossal waste of time, money and energy" to include most forms of "entertainment".

When I taught college / university classes, coaches actually asked me to give a passing grade to students who seldom, if ever, attended classes and never passed a test -- but who were "important to the team". I gave them the grade they earned.

We as a society have encouraged generations of young people, particularly young men, to focus their efforts on mastering skills related to playing with balls. I disagree with the practice and suggest that there are other skills that are more worthy of the effort and expense.

That said, I stand by my statement in post #3 of the tiny positive and large negative that I consider attributable to Christianity; particularly fundamental / literal sects (with consideration of the points added by Flail in post #5).

[cnorman18]

.

Hey, everybody has a pet peeve. For most of you guys, it's fundamentalism, and some of you habitually tar all religion with that brush. For me it's professional sports, particularly the colossal waste of time, money and energy that is the socially-enforced and taxpayer-funded civil religion known here in Texas as Football.

As frequently occurs, I agree with Cnorman's opinion; this time regarding "professional" sports -- but extend the "colossal waste of time, money and energy" to include most forms of "entertainment".

When I taught college / university classes, coaches actually asked me to give a passing grade to students who seldom, if ever, attended classes and never passed a test -- but who were "important to the team". I gave them the grade they earned.

We as a society have encouraged generations of young people, particularly young men, to focus their efforts on mastering skills related to playing with balls. I disagree with the practice and suggest that there are other skills that are more worthy of the effort and expense.

That said, I stand by my statement in post #3 of the tiny positive and large negative that I consider attributable to Christianity; particularly fundamental / literal sects (with consideration of the points added by Flail in post #5).

If those negatives are attributed to "Christianity; particularly fundamental / literal sects," I not only do not object, I wholeheartedly agree.

I would add that fundamentalist / literalist sects of ANY religion, including my own, are similarly blameworthy and of an overwhelmingly negative character.

And I'm not crazy about the entertainment industry in general, either. Anyone who found anything of value or admirable about the "Saw" series of movies, the Jerry Springer show, most. "gangsta rap," or even much of primetime TV, is not quite ready to tackle the question of public morality. Phony religion is a huge problem, but it's a hell of a long way from being the only one or even the biggest.

And kudos to Z for not dumping his integrity in the interest of a winning season.

[JoeyKnothead]

Dang good to bring a better perspective C18. Sports in America is often 'worshiped' to an even greater degree than any religion I can think of. I love to play sports, but I have a hard time watching grown men, millionaires often, cry or get bent out of shape because they lost a game.

[OnceConvinced]

I realize that the subject of this thread is supposedly Christianity, but once again I see a lot of complaints directed against religion in general and even a specific reference to rabbis. I feel compelled to register my objections. Virtually none of these pernicious effects can be attributed to modern Judaism. I have written about that rather extensively elsewhere.

For the record, many of them can't even be fairly leveled at modern mainstream liberal Christians. Once again, we are equating ALL religion with Christian fundamentalism, and of a rather benighted and repressive variety at that. It's not accurate, it's not justifiable, and it's not right.

Ye-es, we Jews do have buildings, and rabbis do get paid. So what? Find me a synagogue that cost as much to build as the new Cowboys stadium here in the Dallas area - at taxpayer expense, be it noted. Find me a rabbi that is paid as much as a second-string tackle on that team.

Since I brought it up: Waste of resources? Corruption of values? Hello? If you want to complain about things that block learning, how about pro sports? In my 26 years of teaching, at least half the boys in my classes were utterly indifferent to their academic studies, confident that they were going to be pro football or basketball players. Half. And I am NOT exaggerating in the slightest.

I happily agree with every objection here. Maybe Jews even have a bit of culpability for a few of them. But not all religions, and not even all Christians, are so blameworthy; and in my opinion, there are other institutions in our society that are just as worthy of criticism as the Church.

Don't tell me that spending more money on pro sports than on public education, as we do in the US, is justifiable because it's entertainment. For many people, so is religion, and if you're going to give the NFL a huge pass and billions of dollars because it makes people happy, you can do the same for the Baptists.

Oh, and don't forget: football fans claim that it teaches values, too. Uh-huh.

Do you complain that the Church neglects the poor, but think it's OK for some guy to make $10 million a year because he can throw or catch a ball? Why is that?

Hey, everybody has a pet peeve. For most of you guys, it's fundamentalism, and some of you habitually tar all religion with that brush. For me it's professional sports, particularly the colossal waste of time, money and energy that is the socially-enforced and taxpayer-funded civil religion known here in Texas as Football.

I agree with what you're saying about warped values in society in general. However I believe religion is given the more critical eye, because the teachings of many is to give up wealth, tithe, feed and cloth the poor and all that sort of stuff. They tell others this is what they should be doing and then seem to waste their money on buildings and huge salaries. It is this sort of hypocrisy that is so blatent and noticeable. Even though people may be wrong to spend so much money on sports and stuff like that, none of them are going around telling everybody that they should give up their wealth to help others. No one is telling everybody how they should live their lives and if they don't do it their way, they'll pay the price later.