Does God exist?

[otseng]

Does God exist? What reasons are there to believe that God is real?


Admin note:
This thread used to be called "Does God exist or not?"
I have renamed this thread to be "Does God exist?"
Another thread has been created to discuss God's nonexistence, "Disproving God".

[juber3]

God certantly does exist it is shown to us in the bible. Many here uses different bibles but all christianity believes in the same "theory" God was a man, was crucified rose and is now eternally living. I heard all excuses most notably this one

He just fainted

This is quite funny. If god was crucified and at the very end to prove he was dead a roman solider thrusted a spear into his side, how could a man faint 3 days and night and then remove a big bolder? Also some of the prophecies in the "Sacred text" shall i call it is being fulfilled. In the bible it says that the nation of Israel will be rebuilt. In 1948 this came true. Now if god didn't exist how would this be true to this very day. "In the last days there shall be wars and rumors of wars." hmm this sounds like Afghanistan and Iraq. If god wasn't alive how could he of "predicted" it. This is what caused me to believe in god and trusting on his son, i am a firm believe that in fact he does and will forever exist.

[Rancid Uncle]

I don't think God exists. It's possible but it's possible an magic invisible spider monkey inhabits my inner ear. There is one big reason I don’t believe in God. Nobody has ever taken a picture of God, nobody has ever recorded his booming voice and nobody has measured his presence in any way. All things that we know of that exist have been measured. It's definitely not a coincidence that all existent things are also measurable things. Until someone somehow measures God I'll have a hard time believing just like how I have a hard time believing in a magic invisible spider monkey lives in my inner ear.

[juber3]

Rancid, Buddy, let me write something for you. No-body could of taken a picture because cameras wasnt around then. How would they take a picture? Art work you say? For artwork to actually be "good" the subject has to of been in the same spot for hours on end. What about in the garden of gasemni(ga-sem-a-ni) when jesus said " iam that iam" and made all the guards drop to their feet. What about when god was shown to 500 people at once? Now if it was one person i might think it is crazy but 500. " After that, he was seen of above
five hundred brethren at once;
of whom the greater part remain
unto this present, but some are
fallen asleep. -KJV 1611 SWORDSEARCHER- Even though you couldnt match this with measures (measuring was dependent on the king in control at the time) this shows HISTORICALLY that jesus did infact exist. We found all this text (the dead sea scrolls) which was FOUND near Jerusalem in 1947. This is text written hundreds and thousands of years back, and shows evidence of this...massacre.

[perspective]

Let's assume some dude named Jesus did actually exist - he was born, he was crucified, and he died. Maybe we even could have a picture of this guy from a camera. How does that prove that he is some supernatural being? How does that prove that he is a god? How does that show that he had any powers beyond mortal ones like everybody else? Like Rancid points out - until I can see some tangible evidence, it's more unlikely than likely (in my eyes) that a supernatural god exists.

[juber3]

Heya Perspective long time no see

Your questions

How does that prove that he is some supernatural being? How does that prove that he is a god? How does that show that he had any powers beyond mortal ones like everybody else?

are like what i hear everywhere else so lets start with the first. How does that prove he is some supernatural being and how does it show he had super natural powers? Well hmm he ROSE AGAIn and appeared before 500 appeas supernatural to me. He fed 5000 which was found in the dead sea scrolls. If they found the scrolls then i believe because that thing is ancient. Now tell me which other guy (other then lazarus which jesus rose by the way) that can rise again? THERE IS NONE. How could this earth come into being? Your telling me a super explosion just BANG here earth is. There has to be a god to do this. If it is found in the first line 'in the begning GOD created the heavens and the earth'. Now again it is almost impossible to measure the ideals of Jesus because in the old time they had no measuring system, there system was pence and so forth. But you might say 'moses parted the red sea surley he is a god'. NO. It is found in the bible that infact he prayed to god and was in great favor with god. Also god was a sinless man. YES HE NEVER DID SIN. Now i sin everyday and i know the justifications or that sin, but it is belief enough for me that he did have supernatural powers. What about when he casted a demon out of a person. That is supernatural. And in everyday life when you breathe, how do you know that it is there? It is just like jesus how do you know that he is there? Yes you can SEE you breathing but can you see your breath in the normal everyday enviroment? NO!. Now christians can feel his supernatural power when the pray or when they go to church. You can feel the holy ghost move.

[perspective]

Heya Perspective long time no see

Yeah, I know - been applying to law school and stuff...

Well hmm he ROSE AGAIn and appeared before 500 appeas supernatural to me. He fed 5000 which was found in the dead sea scrolls.

How do you know that he rose again? Where is there any evidence that he did? Just because the story of the 3 little bears has been told for thousands of years, and written on old parchment, does that mean that bears can talk? I would have to offer some evidence of talking bears for you to believe it - the mere existence of fairy tale books doesn't prove anything.

If they found the scrolls then i believe because that thing is ancient. Now tell me which other guy (other then lazarus which jesus rose by the way) that can rise again? THERE IS NONE.

Exactly. I'd contend no one else has risen from the dead because it is impossible to do. Until I see someone do it, I'll believe that it is not possible. I'd call it unlikely versus impossible if it could be hypothesized or derived from some sort of known scientific principles, but since it can't - I'll go with "impossible" over "unlikely".

How could this earth come into being?

There are a lot of possibilities of how the universe could have come into being. None of them can be proven yet. So people must go with the most likely explanation. In my mind, the most likely explanation involves physics, chemistry, biology. Not magic. I've never seen anything magical. I have seen many things biological, chemical, physical.

There has to be a god to do this. If it is found in the first line 'in the begning GOD created the heavens and the earth'.

The writings in the bible are not proof of the creation of the universe.

Also god was a sinless man. YES HE NEVER DID SIN. Now i sin everyday and i know the justifications or that sin, but it is belief enough for me that he did have supernatural powers.

That's not enough for me. Sin is arbitrary - even within christianity. The bible forbids plenty of activities that "moral" christians partake in. I could never base my beliefs on a bible where some words are taken literally and some are interpreted to the liking of the reader. It's all so arbitrary to me - and it doesn't prove that supernatural beings exist.

What about when he casted a demon out of a person. That is supernatural.

Did you witness this 'casting'? How do I know he casted a demon out of person? I've never seen a demon. Again, just because the bible says something that does not prove that it actually happened.

And in everyday life when you breathe, how do you know that it is there? It is just like jesus how do you know that he is there? Yes you can SEE you breathing but can you see your breath in the normal everyday enviroment? NO!.

No, but I can conduct several different science experiments to prove that air exists. I can show that people without air will die within a very short time frame. I can show that plants in a vacuum will not survive, that freezing a balloon full of air will shrink the air mass into a smaller volume. I can disperse things into the air and freeze them back out. I can blow air out of a balloon against my face and feel it. You can do it too. I can prove to you that air exists through your senses as well as through mine.

Now christians can feel his supernatural power when the pray or when they go to church. You can feel the holy ghost move.

Well, I'd love to feel these sensations, but I can't. So I'll just keep disbelieving until your god decides to make himself known to me.

[otseng]

There is one big reason I don’t believe in God. Nobody has ever taken a picture of God, nobody has ever recorded his booming voice and nobody has measured his presence in any way. All things that we know of that exist have been measured.

Not all things that we believe to exist is directly measurable or photographable.

Neither your emotions nor volition are measurable, but most likely they exist. The earth's core has never been photographed, and we believe that to exist. I do not believe quarks have ever been photographed, but we believe they exist. Black holes of course can't be photographed, but we believe in them.

The point is, there are many things we believe in because of indirect evidence. We see things that point to it's existence, but we can't directly measure or see them.

Same with God. God is not directly measureable, but we can see indirect evidence of it's existence.

[juber3]

Same with God. God is not directly measureable, but we can see indirect evidence of it's existence.

Agreed. There are many things we havent been able to see or measure but it still exist. We believe in many things that are not seen such as air. I know air has a measurable appearence such as barometer reading but we cant directly see the air. Nor can we see heaven or hell but a majority of the population believes it exist.

[Abs like J']

I might first point to a key difference in wording:
RancidUncle posted All things that we know of that exist have been measured.
Otseng in response posted Not all things that we believe to exist is directly measurable or photographable.

There is a significant difference between what we know to exist and what we simply believe to exist. As to the things related by Otseng -- emotions, choices, geological core, black holes and quarks -- these are all things which while not necessarily photographed can be measured and studied scientifically. We have knowledge of these things rather than simple belief.

To this Otseng says (with juber's agreement):

God is not directly measureable, but we can see indirect evidence of it's existence.

When people discuss this "indirect evidence" of a supernatural entity, it always seems to be via natural means. It isn't indirect evidence of god's existence but rather an exercise in disregarding the true relation between cause and effect in the natural world. One need not assume a supernatural creator or personal deity to explain and understand the natural world, and indeed, attempts to do so violate the principle of parsimony.

Juber took the added step of mentioning what most people believe, but certainly belief by the majority does not have the power to alter the truth. What is, is... and no amount of belief can make it otherwise.