Chirstianity - Why do you beleive?

[truthseeker_13]

Hi
I'm an atheist. I'm just wondering how you (christians) can believe something so clearly false and contradicting? I'm an avid believer in science, but i don't think that science tells me not to believe in god or anything, i just don't see how its possible to believe in somthing like god? Is it the bible? The bible is riddled with contradictions, so if some parts are wrong (if two parts contradict, one or both must be wrong), how do you know that the rest isisn't

Also, how can you support a rereligionhat does what it does, (now don't get me wrong here, iI'mtotally not allabellinghristians or anything like that, so don't kill me lol), but christianity has rreallydished out some $hi-|- in the past. I mean, your faith preaches love and forgiving, but also the destruction of non-bbelievers Christianity spread across europe and burned the ancient sites of its people, (my celtic ancestors being some of them), and erected cchurchesin their places. Christians burned witches in salem and even inspires hate crimes today. How can god allow this to happen?

Even these days, christians believe it is there duty to send its disciples into isolated, preserved civilizations on the few last remaining ffrontiersof civilization and forever spoil them, destroying some of the last vestigiments of unique culture around the world. And in these places, generally quality of life decreases by 87.9% statistically. If they were living fine on their own, but the word of god brings them suffering, how can god be benevolent and forgiving or even real?

Again, this is not an attack on christianity, I'm just looking for contrasting views.

[youngborean]

Hello and welcome to the debate.


I believe because of personal experiences which happened during my search for truth. I had questions about my state, I turned to the bible and prayed to God to answer those questions to me. He did answer them directly in the pages of Scripture. This was the real beginning of my faith. To me true faith is this personal experience. Now people act out there religions in a variety of ways. One of those varieties of Christianity are those that believe that salvation is by faith alone, not religious works. So showing a religion is not as great as the condition of someone's heart in my mind. People that murder or show no humility really are reflecting a heart that has not been changed and do not represent the gospel to me. But only God knows the heart. To me that is a beautiful picture of his equity as the great judge. As far as contradictions in Scripture, you would be better served to cite specific examples as individual posts. If you are equally interested in Contradictions of the bible and Science you may want to try a post in the Creation v Evolution subforum. Welcome and enjoy your search.

[truthseeker_13]

But how fo you know that gods answers to your prayers werent mere coincedences? Are you saying that EVERY prayer you make is answered acording to scripture?

[youngborean]

They very well may have been coincidences, but after time of intense study of the bible after those experiences, I came to believe that the initial faith I had was founded on the whole of God's word. I do believe every prayer is answered when asked in faith. The problem is that humans aren't always ready to accept answers they do not expect.

[potwalloper.]

truthseeker_13 wrote

Hi
I'm an atheist. I'm just wondering how you (christians) can believe something so clearly false and contradicting? I'm an avid believer in science, but i don't think that science tells me not to believe in god or anything, i just don't see how its possible to believe in somthing like god? Is it the bible? The bible is riddled with contradictions, so if some parts are wrong (if two parts contradict, one or both must be wrong), how do you know that the rest isisn't

Hi truthseeker_13

Welcome to the debate.

I think you will find that the belief of Christians is purely subjective and is driven by an internal desire to believe (faith) as opposed to a logical framework driven by objective evidence.

The key principle for all scientific approaches to understanding the universe lies in the alteration of fundamental beliefs based upon the best information available at the time. If general relativity was replaced with a grand unified theory tomorrow, if sufficient evidence were provided that was replicatable and survived peer review, scientists would adapt their thinking to accept the new theory.

This can be contrasted with religious belief. No matter what evidence is provided to the contrary religious believers will retain their belief, even if this means the suspension of common sense and logic and the distortion/adaptation of existing information to ensure their belief system remains intact.

It is my belief that this reflects characterological elements of their psyche rather than any evidential basis for belief and as such, in most cases, is intractable and resistant to all evidence that contrasts with that belief, acting rather as a defence mechanism to preserve their worldview.

I find such approaches astounding and frustrating at times - however perhaps Christians are lucky at being able to accept myths as truth

Regards


Pot

[bernee51]

They very well may have been coincidences, but after time of intense study of the bible after those experiences, I came to believe that the initial faith I had was founded on the whole of God's word. I do believe every prayer is answered when asked in faith. The problem is that humans aren't always ready to accept answers they do not expect.

So by this I take it you mean that regardless of the outcome the prayer has been answered?

[seventil]

Hi
I'm an atheist. I'm just wondering how you (christians) can believe something so clearly false and contradicting? I'm an avid believer in science, but i don't think that science tells me not to believe in god or anything, i just don't see how its possible to believe in somthing like god? Is it the bible? The bible is riddled with contradictions, so if some parts are wrong (if two parts contradict, one or both must be wrong), how do you know that the rest isisn't

Biblical contradictions are a completely different subject. However, I think most, if not all, of any contradiction you have ever heard of it taken completely out of context.

Also, you can be a Biblical liberal like myself and still be a strong Christian. A Biblical liberal is basically someone who believes the Bible is the Word of God but also reasons that perhaps somethings are not grammarically correct, or mistranslated, or the meaning has changed over time.

Also, how can you support a rereligionhat does what it does, (now don't get me wrong here, iI'mtotally not allabellinghristians or anything like that, so don't kill me lol), but christianity has rreallydished out some $hi-|- in the past. I mean, your faith preaches love and forgiving, but also the destruction of non-bbelievers Christianity spread across europe and burned the ancient sites of its people, (my celtic ancestors being some of them), and erected cchurchesin their places. Christians burned witches in salem and even inspires hate crimes today. How can god allow this to happen?

You are making some deadly assumptions here, which I'll point out.

First, you are assuming everything that has been done in the name of religion was actually inspired, or done for, the glory of God. I can go shoot someone in the head and say it's in the name of God, but that doesn't make me correct in what I say, or my meaning behind it righteous by any means.

Second, God allows it to happen because the that's the way the world is. Any evil or corruption the world has in it now or in the past is not because of God, but because of mankind's inherent habit to ignore God. Millions die in the crusades because of evil men doing evil things in the name of a Christian God. Witches are burned at the stake because evil men do evil things in the name of the Christian God.

So, I'll beat this horse to the ground: Doing something in the name of God does not mean it is from, or for, God.

Even these days, christians believe it is there duty to send its disciples into isolated, preserved civilizations on the few last remaining ffrontiersof civilization and forever spoil them, destroying some of the last vestigiments of unique culture around the world. And in these places, generally quality of life decreases by 87.9% statistically. If they were living fine on their own, but the word of god brings them suffering, how can god be benevolent and forgiving or even real?

Again, this is not an attack on christianity, I'm just looking for contrasting views.

Interesting statistic. I'd like to know where you got it from. Please post a source.

I've seen and read about missionary work in third world countries. From my first hand experience, your statement here is completely false. Bringing the Word of God to these places is dramatic usually, and for the good. Perhaps they are then persecuted by their country; but ask the actual believers what they think of their new life; I guarantee you they'll say it's 110% better than it's ever been before.

[potwalloper.]

I've seen and read about missionary work in third world countries. From my first hand experience, your statement here is completely false. Bringing the Word of God to these places is dramatic usually, and for the good. Perhaps they are then persecuted by their country; but ask the actual believers what they think of their new life; I guarantee you they'll say it's 110% better than it's ever been before.

As have I.

I think that this depends very much on the circumstances. I have travelled widely in Africa and once had the opportunity to see Christian missionaries from a well-known American "charity" who were requiring hungry children to attend Christian masses and proclaim their belief in Christ before they would be allowed to have food. I understand that this was repeated in South America where survivors from an earthquake had to attend a Christian ceremony before they were allowed to build the temporary shelters that the organisation had taken there. Beware of Christians bearing gifts...

The enforced application of Christian principles upon many indigenous populations during the time of the "white man's burden" resulted in the erosion of local culture, a breakdown in long-established social systems, serious inter-tribal conflict, and little improvement in the long-term quality of life. Countries in Africa are still picking up the pieces from European oppression, much of which had a religious base, indigenous people in Australia saw the total destruction of their social structure to the point where children were taken away from their parents to be taught Christian beliefs - and this was only a few decades ago.

I am not, of course, saying that all Christian assistance is bad. I am saying that it is very dangerous to make a judgment that your own beliefs and social structures are appropriate for application to others and that your beliefs are right and those of others are wrong. Assistance for those in need should not have strings attached.

Regards


Pot

[Nyril]

Biblical contradictions are a completely different subject. However, I think most, if not all, of any contradiction you have ever heard of it taken completely out of context.

Before I came to this board, I was debating here. They have a rather amazing list of contradictions, and a standing offer is that if you can prove the contradiction is not really a contradiction, it comes off the list (and it has, the challenge has been met in the past, and points have come down).

There's 330 contradictions listed in the books. If "most, if not all" contradictions are simply taken out of context, feel free to bring them up for discussion.

Also, you can be a Biblical liberal like myself and still be a strong Christian. A Biblical liberal is basically someone who believes the Bible is the Word of God but also reasons that perhaps somethings are not grammarically correct, or mistranslated, or the meaning has changed over time.

But the problem is, if you can excuse this part or that part of being a bad translation, what parts of the book can you trust? In my experience, it invariably turns out that the parts in which the bible contradicts itself, or says something entirely absurd (Such as, the Earth rests on pillars) that become mistranslations, and the good parts that you do care to frame and put up on walls made it through with a perfect translation.

[hannahjoy]

potwalloper.wrote;

Assistance for those in need should not have strings attached.

From a Christian perspective, giving the Gospel is "assistance for those in need" - a far more desperate need than food or shelter.