Women Preachers

[UHCAIan]

Im new here I just started here today. I think this could fit under the belief section. My topic is on women preaching,pastoring,and leading in the church. Do you all think its right?

I have a female pastor, I can tell the Holy Spirit is in her. Our church has grown under her leadership.

Scriptures I think support it(if I am wrong please let me know.)
-Acts 2:17-21
-Acts 18:18-28 (because Priscilla's name is written first,unusual in Paul's time)
-Romans 16
-Romans 16:7


Scriptures I think are against(if I am wrong correct me.)
-1 Corinthians 11
-2 Timothy 2:11-15

Those are scriptures I could find right off. I don't have a problem with women preaching,like I said my pastor is a woman and she is truly anointed. I believe God call who he wants to call. What do you all believe?

[McCulloch]

Scriptures can be and have been found to support both positions. If you believe that scriptures are from the god, then you must find a way to come to an understanding of what all of the passages mean consistently. It can be hard work. Take all of the passages which seem to point to the teaching you disagree with and reconcile them with what you do believe. It is called hermeneutics.

It is also pointless, I don't believe that scriptures are from God.

I can tell the Holy Spirit is in her.

How can you tell?

[UHCAIan]

Scriptures can be and have been found to support both positions. If you believe that scriptures are from the god, then you must find a way to come to an understanding of what all of the passages mean consistently. It can be hard work. Take all of the passages which seem to point to the teaching you disagree with and reconcile them with what you do believe. It is called hermeneutics.

It is also pointless, I don't believe that scriptures are from God.

I can tell the Holy Spirit is in her.

How can you tell?

I can tell because, when you are around her you feel something divine on her. You feel as we call it the anointing of God on her. Any person around her would feel it. In the way she speaks,walks,looks,and acts. You will have to be around her to really know what I am talking about.

[McCulloch]

I can tell [that the Holy Spirit is in her] because, when you are around her you feel something divine on her. You feel as we call it the anointing of God on her. Any person around her would feel it. In the way she speaks,walks,looks,and acts. You will have to be around her to really know what I am talking about.

I am sure that the people who were around Jim Jones felt the same way.

If God inspired the Bible and the Bible teaches that women should not be allowed to teach or exercise authority over a man, then if this woman teaches otherwise, she is teaching against God.

Look at the context of Paul's instruction:

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Paul makes it abundantly clear that he is not addressing the issue of a single church or a particular group of unruly uneducated women. Nor is he merely reflecting the culture of his time. No, Paul appeals to the very creation of humanity as a justification of his practice to discriminate against women in any teaching role.

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Paul could not have been more clear. It takes a whole lot of mental gymnastics to make this passage say anything other than what is apparent. Read it in context.

[UHCAIan]

I can tell [that the Holy Spirit is in her] because, when you are around her you feel something divine on her. You feel as we call it the anointing of God on her. Any person around her would feel it. In the way she speaks,walks,looks,and acts. You will have to be around her to really know what I am talking about.

I am sure that the people who were around Jim Jones felt the same way.

If God inspired the Bible and the Bible teaches that women should not be allowed to teach or exercise authority over a man, then if this woman teaches otherwise, she is teaching against God.

Look at the context of Paul's instruction:

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Paul makes it abundantly clear that he is not addressing the issue of a single church or a particular group of unruly uneducated women. Nor is he merely reflecting the culture of his time. No, Paul appeals to the very creation of humanity as a justification of his practice to discriminate against women in any teaching role.

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Paul could not have been more clear. It takes a whole lot of mental gymnastics to make this passage say anything other than what is apparent. Read it in context.

I do no like how you compared my pastor to Jim Jones. That was very disrespectful. Two obivioulsly you did not read the supporting scriptures. Paul was talking the the Curch in Corinth. Because women had just learned the word of God, and were teaching, and preaching it wrong. Misleading other saints. So Paul told them ti sit down, and not allow them to preach,teach, or say anything in church. He was talking to the church in Corinth, and anyother church that has that same problem. No to all churches. I God's word, and understand it. I pray to him for wisdom,knwledge and understanding. ANd he gives it to me. And, if you read the bible and took head to it, and understood it you would not be in the situation you are in, by not believing the word of God. God bless you.

[McCulloch]

I do no like how you compared my pastor to Jim Jones. That was very disrespectful.

I am sorry that I caused offense. I meant no disrespect. I do not know your pastor. My only point was that a person's feelings can be deceptive, as was the case for the followers of Jim Jones, who apparently felt that he was the messenger of the Holy Spirit.

Two obivioulsly you did not read the supporting scriptures. Paul was talking the the Curch in Corinth. Because women had just learned the word of God, and were teaching, and preaching it wrong. Misleading other saints. So Paul told them ti sit down, and not allow them to preach,teach, or say anything in church.

Paul, in his letter to the Corinthians was certainly addressing the church in Corinth. Yet, as I pointed out, he makes a rather sweeping statement about the role of women in the Church. He does not say that in Corinth only, Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Do you similarly limit the application of the theology expressed to the Romans only to the church in Rome? I have read the entirety of the Corinthian letters and I must have missed the place where he states that his teachings have application for that church only. Please point it out for me.

Paul in his letter to Timothy similarly clearly expresses that his instructions are to be applied universally. Why else would he appeal to the creation to justify his view about the role of women?

I God's word, and understand it. I pray to him for wisdom,knwledge and understanding. ANd he gives it to me. And, if you read the bible and took head to it, and understood it you would not be in the situation you are in, by not believing the word of God. God bless you.

Yes, I admit that I am limited in my understanding of the Bible. I can only discern the meaning of the writings from the words therein. I have not the advantage of any form of supernatural assistance. As far as I know, I have never disbelieved the word of God. Every time that I am aware that God has communicated to me, I have believed it. How is it that you know that God has communicated to you?

[UHCAIan]

I do no like how you compared my pastor to Jim Jones. That was very disrespectful.

I am sorry that I caused offense. I meant no disrespect. I do not know your pastor. My only point was that a person's feelings can be deceptive, as was the case for the followers of Jim Jones, who apparently felt that he was the messenger of the Holy Spirit.

Two obivioulsly you did not read the supporting scriptures. Paul was talking the the Curch in Corinth. Because women had just learned the word of God, and were teaching, and preaching it wrong. Misleading other saints. So Paul told them ti sit down, and not allow them to preach,teach, or say anything in church.

Paul, in his letter to the Corinthians was certainly addressing the church in Corinth. Yet, as I pointed out, he makes a rather sweeping statement about the role of women in the Church. He does not say that in Corinth only, Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Do you similarly limit the application of the theology expressed to the Romans only to the church in Rome? I have read the entirety of the Corinthian letters and I must have missed the place where he states that his teachings have application for that church only. Please point it out for me.

Paul in his letter to Timothy similarly clearly expresses that his instructions are to be applied universally. Why else would he appeal to the creation to justify his view about the role of women?

I God's word, and understand it. I pray to him for wisdom,knwledge and understanding. ANd he gives it to me. And, if you read the bible and took head to it, and understood it you would not be in the situation you are in, by not believing the word of God. God bless you.

Yes, I admit that I am limited in my understanding of the Bible. I can only discern the meaning of the writings from the words therein. I have not the advantage of any form of supernatural assistance. As far as I know, I have never disbelieved the word of God. Every time that I am aware that God has communicated to me, I have believed it. How is it that you know that God has communicated to you?

Im sorry I came off offensive as well. God has communictated with me through my mind. He tells me things, and send me messages that I wouldnt have known any otherway. God is just an awesome God.

[McCulloch]

Off topic:

God has communictated with me through my mind. He tells me things, and send me messages that I wouldnt have known any otherway.

How is it that you know that the thoughts you have are from God and are not simply your own imaginings?


Back on topic:

I am curious as to how you tap dance around these:

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

[Guest]

Im new here I just started here today. I think this could fit under the belief section. My topic is on women preaching,pastoring,and leading in the church. Do you all think its right?

I have a female pastor, I can tell the Holy Spirit is in her. Our church has grown under her leadership.

Scriptures I think support it(if I am wrong please let me know.)
-Acts 2:17-21
-Acts 18:18-28 (because Priscilla's name is written first,unusual in Paul's time)
-Romans 16
-Romans 16:7


Scriptures I think are against(if I am wrong correct me.)
-1 Corinthians 11
-2 Timothy 2:11-15

Those are scriptures I could find right off. I don't have a problem with women preaching,like I said my pastor is a woman and she is truly anointed. I believe God call who he wants to call. What do you all believe?

I believe the Bible is not geared toward feminism. It generally sets the tone that man leads and wives are to be submissive. I believe however there are times when a man does not step up to the plate and a woman has to fill the gap. Esther was an example of that. I believe the intended order was for man to be the leader (pastor) in a church setting. Anything else, though, like evangelism, teaching, etc are wide open for any female. Some take it to the other extreme and believe that a woman should not even be a President. I do not agree with that.

[coop101]

To UHCAIan;
I'm new to this site also. I been reading all the posts. good points in response to you question. I have always believe that women could preach, but Pastoring?, I had no scripture to stand on. in my heart I knew it, but no scripture to stand on. so last year I went to God in prayer and asked for the revelation. and he gave me the answer, with scripture. I'll share with you this revelation. and I'll be brief as I can.

First, lets define a Pastor or the role of Pastoring.
Book of Acts 20:17-28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. these are ELDERS. out of the elders the gift of pastoring comes, notice I said the gift of pastoring.

Pastors are not called or sent, but given. Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Ephesian 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Here we are in the year 2010, and we as Christians is still walking a divided line on this subject. this topic have has been debated, argued, misused, and we have slandered the Good name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for the world to see. I fear the Lord very much, and he has chose me to speak on this topic, and he have also given me more insight for this subject at hand. by the Grace given unto me, now I share this insight with you.

In taking this task, which I do gladly. for the purpose of this topic which is to give foundation scripture (information) for all to use, and to stand on in regards to Pastors who happens to be Female (women).

The scriptures have been before our face and on our lips all the time, but hidden. yes, Joel 2:28, that's the verse. but to see the revelation clearly I'll use 4 book of the Holy Bible 2 from the old testament, and 2 from the new testament.. I'll walk you through this step by step. to some this will be nothing new. but now the scriptural reference is presented.

starting with, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding".

Pastors are given. Question, what for ?.
Ephesian 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesian 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesian 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Ephesian 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Ephesian 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Now we know what Pastors are for, onto to Joel 2:28
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

we have a promise from God according to the prophet Joel. onto Acts 2:1-4 where this promise is fulfilled.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The apostles are speaking in other tongues. hold that thought. now to Acts 2:16

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Question at verse 4 of Acts chapter 2: if this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. I have a question?. why is the Apostle Peter preaching in other tongues. there is nothing in Joel 2:28 saying anything about speaking in other tongues, right, or did it?. there is only what is listed?. 1. prophesy, 2. dream, 3. visions. so why are they speaking with other tongues?. Answer: Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. so now we can see why Peter was speaking in other tongues. it was the gifts of the Holy Spirit that did it. Question, what are the gifts of the Holy Spirit. are his gifts only limited to 3 mention in Joel 2:28. prophesy, dream, and visions

so here is the connection: it is the Spirit that was promised, his gifts.
remember, Peter said this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. scripture cannot lie. lets look at all of the Gifts of the spirit.

onto 1 Corinthians
1 Corinthians Chapter 12, verses 4-11
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; stop, is not this that was that Peter spoke of. yes!. lets go on. to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

now look above at verse 8 of chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. now what is a word of wisdom, it means understanding.* see below for a definition of word of wisdom, used in spiritual matters.

now we have the gifts of knowledge and understanding. lets look again at what God said in Jeremiah. "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding".

Now that have been establish, the connection between the gifts promised in Joel 2:28 and the realization of their use in 1 Corinthians 12 and Acts chapter 2. next, how do the female come into play with these gifts. since the apostle Peter stated that, "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" , Question again, who qualify for these Gifts. lets see, Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Now, Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.Daughters, seem like that's a female to me. handmaids, seem like that's a female to me also. (look like God is no respecter of person), and the scripture cannot be broken. let's see this used in scripture.
Romans Chapter 16 verse 1.I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Phebe is a female (woman), and she is also a servant.
So, from the bible scripture, and the understanding of what a Pastor is, can a female be a Pastor?, YES
Now are women allowed to used these gifts inside in the church, Yes.

Next we'll look at the office of prophet for the woman. and the understanding of the scripture in 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:11 & 12

also we need to look at and understand the role of the prophet under the new testament.


Love and peace
coop

* W.E. Vine Dictionary <2,,5428,phronesis> "understanding, prudence," i.e., a right use of phren, "the mind," is translated "wisom"
Note: "While sophia is the insight into the true nature of things, phronesis is the ability to discern modes of action with a view to their results; while sophia is theoretical, phronesis is practical" (Lightfoot). Sunesis, "understanding, intelligence," is the critical faculty; this and phronesis are particular applications of sophia.