Paranormal Research

[aprilannies]

I had a friend call my attention to this link:

http://www.rednova.com/news/display/?id=126649#

about paranormal research that is going on at Princeton. These scientists have some interesting studies on time travel, psychic phenomenon, and global consciousness. What could religious implications be if these studies continue to gain credibility?

Please move if needed, I didn't really know where to put this.

[Dilettante]

But are those studies really gaining any credibility? Check this out:
http://skepdic.com/refuge/bunk23.html#global
And this:
http://skepdic.com/pear.html
Scientists have been fooled in the past, they never suspect any foul play. I would have James Randi look into it, just to be on the safe side...

[ST88]

Psychics came in many flavors...
1) face to face telepaths:
The experimenter typically interacts directly with the "psychic individual" in order to test his powers. The experimenter knows the correct answer in the experiment, but does not reveal it to the subject. If the subject correctly guesses the answer, then he is pyschic.

But invariably the experimenter has what grifters call a "tell". The "psychics" in this situation can pick up on the differences in the behavior of the experimenter, whether it is voice inflection, gestures, facial movements or whatever, depending on what the correct answer is. Many times, this is an unconscious process for both members. The psychics in this situation probably don't know how they receive the correct answers because it's done on a subliminal level. There needn't be any foul play.

2) the shotgun prophet
The Princeton black box fits this description, as does Nostradamus. The weirdest part about the black box story was that the circuits picked up the outpouring of emotion from Princess Diana's funeral. Excuse me? Princess Di's funeral? Why nothing about the Heaven's Gate suicides? Why nothing about Timothy McVeigh's conviction? Or the collective swooning of America's females for Leonardo DiCaprio's death scene in Titanic? Or the many other happenings from 1997. The fact that there was an effect at a particular time should not imply any correlation, especially when there were plenty of other things it should have picked up on but didn't. If it were a complete coincidence that these two things happened on the same day, we shouldn't be surprised.

[Dilettante]

ST88 wrote:

Psychics came in many flavors...
1) face to face telepaths:
The experimenter typically interacts directly with the "psychic individual" in order to test his powers. The experimenter knows the correct answer in the experiment, but does not reveal it to the subject. If the subject correctly guesses the answer, then he is pyschic.

But invariably the experimenter has what grifters call a "tell". The "psychics" in this situation can pick up on the differences in the behavior of the experimenter, whether it is voice inflection, gestures, facial movements or whatever, depending on what the correct answer is. Many times, this is an unconscious process for both members. The psychics in this situation probably don't know how they receive the correct answers because it's done on a subliminal level. There needn't be any foul play.

What I mean by "foul play" is cold reading, hot reading, pencil reading, and any of the various techniques available to people pretending to have telepathic powers. As you know, conjurors (who do not claim any special powers) are just as good at "telepathy" as psychics. I don't buy the "subliminal" explanation because anything subliminal goes unperceived by definition, so it would not be much help, and because there's usually a lot at stake for the psychic not to be paying 100% of his/her attention to the experimenter. I'd say it's only unconscious for the experimenter.

[ST88]

I don't buy the "subliminal" explanation because anything subliminal goes unperceived by definition, so it would not be much help, and because there's usually a lot at stake for the psychic not to be paying 100% of his/her attention to the experimenter. I'd say it's only unconscious for the experimenter.

I'm not so sure that all claimed psychics are charlatans, as you seem to suggest. I think there are some people who genuinely believe that they have these extrasensory powers. That they are actually picking up on the behavior of the other person, and not the "thought waves" or whatever, is a perfectly reasonable explanation for me. Subliminal in the sense that the psychic doesn't realize where the information is coming from.

But, of course, there are a good number of deceivers out there, and the Uri Geller tricks of the world have been exposed enough to make everyone suspicious.

[Dilettante]

ST88:

I'm not so sure that all claimed psychics are charlatans, as you seem to suggest. I think there are some people who genuinely believe that they have these extrasensory powers.

On second thoughts, you're probably right. It's entirely possible. But I still think that, while those psychics who don't charge a fee may act in good faith, 99% of the "professional" psychics are conscious, deliberate frauds. (The rest are unaware that they're not real)

[Todd]

I just got into this topic and thought I'd display my thoughts.

I don't believe any person is psychic, but I believe that demons persuade some people that they are by doing 'supernatural' things.

[Dilettante]

I don't believe in the power of either demons or psychics. I think the kind of tricks professional psychics use is available to any experienced conjuror. No need for paranormal explanations.

[eveil42]

man cannot reject the fact that his perception can go beyond his body, i -look-at-you. the connection itself is of a psychic nature, this connection is a concioussness connected to a concioussness. our preceptions are far removed from our body but yet we can still understand that our muscles feel a twinge of pain. when your friend feels a certain pain and expresses this pain to you , you can comprehend it. this understanding is related to an internal formula- your conciousness. therefore, i would not rule out the psychic completely.
best,
eveilgrl_

[ST88]

when your friend feels a certain pain and expresses this pain to you , you can comprehend it. this understanding is related to an internal formula- your conciousness. therefore, i would not rule out the psychic completely.

This is exactly the kind of misconception about how people empathize with others that drives me nuts. The brain is able to imagine how something feels either by pulling up the reserves of memory for when it happened or by creating an analagous situation purely in a memory form. This accounts for false memory syndromes among people who falsely believe they were abused as children. I am able to cringe just thinking about an episiotomy despite the fact that my plumbing does not support thinking that way.

This is exactly what I mean when I say that people do not know how they know certain things, so they assume it is a psychic connection.