predestination--
i think we can agree that its probably one of the most debated and misunderstood/confusing aspects of christianity.
as a presbyterian christian. we believe in the five institutions of calvinism (i think its five, correct me if i'm wrong). one of them states that we as christians live a presdestined life-- a life that is seen by the eyes of God.
now, here is what BOGGLES the crap out of my mind:
if our lives are predestined and already planned out, HOW IS IT THAT WE HAVE FREE WILL? (Assuming that you agree that God grants us free will-- i believe he does)
but doesn't predestination contradict the idea of free will?
the only explanation i can come up with is this--
Our lives are predestined in the sense that God already KNOWS which decisions we're going to make in our lives, so technically we do have free will and we do have the power to make our own decisions-- simply, God already knows which path we will take.
BUT... on the other hand, if God already knows the decisions we're going to make, that ALREADY rules out free will because technically, we can only make the decision that God foresees, because if we go AGAINST our predestined paths, then it will prove that God is no omnipotent and it will contradict the fact that God is all-knowing.
have i just confused you? cause i'm pretty confused myself.
your input? ideas? comments?
PREDESTINATION
Moderator: Moderators
Post #2
Hi janex, and welcome to the Debating Christianity & Religion forums!
I agree that predestination is an often discussed and disputed component of religious debate. In fact, in the Philosophy subforum, we currently have three active threads discussing the issue:
Choice
Predestination/Election
Free Will
I encourage you to read through these threads, and welcome your input!
Regards,
mrmufin
I agree that predestination is an often discussed and disputed component of religious debate. In fact, in the Philosophy subforum, we currently have three active threads discussing the issue:
Choice
Predestination/Election
Free Will
I encourage you to read through these threads, and welcome your input!
Regards,
mrmufin
Post #3
Predestination is unscriptural. God knows the outcome of some of the choices we make, but he doesnt look into the outcome of our whole life. He is just. Although he could, he doesnt.
Ecclesiastes 3:1: ...time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all."
So this is not due to any foreseeing of a person's life, but due to the chance he may become a victim of unfortunate circumstances.
Romans 22:17: And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.
-(That choice is not foreordained; it is left to the individual.")
Ecclesiastes 3:1: ...time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all."
So this is not due to any foreseeing of a person's life, but due to the chance he may become a victim of unfortunate circumstances.
Romans 22:17: And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.
-(That choice is not foreordained; it is left to the individual.")
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Post #4
greetings,
I know this is a very confusing and highly debated topic. I would like to say that one of the biggest things missing in most every thread remotely relating to this is the concept of parallel truths.
Most Christians everywhere readily acknowledge that scripture clearly teaches both God's righteousness/holiness, and also His Mercy.
God is close, personal,knows us intimately, and also transcendent --his ways are higher than our ways, and his wisdom is beyond our comprehension.
The same is true with God's sovereignty and the free will of man-- God is omnipotent, but man has a role/responsibility. This thread shows both views.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... php?t=3771
In God's mind, there is not a contradiction. We would do well to affirm this truth, and not unChristianize those on the other side.
Both views can be taken to extreme. HyperCalvinism -- God hates some, His Death was only for some but not others, and that man has no part, role, or responsibility in Salvation, and those who are elected cannot refuse.
Hyper Arminianism --Man is the one who comes to God, however and whenever he wants, and on his terms. And every time they make a mistake they lose their salvation, like a person who misplaces the remote. This extreme view, leads them to think that they will live in sin until the next revival, or when ever they decide to come to God.
I attended a Calvinist school while attending an Arminian church, so have seen both sides, and have regularly attended churches ranging from PCA [5 point Calvinist] to Wesleyan Holiness, Bible Methodist, to Russian Baptist, and Evangelical Free in Poland.
The mark of maturity is not Calvinism, or how many points they agree with, or if they are Arminian, or something inbetween,but do they extend grace to brothers who believe differently.
I know this is a very confusing and highly debated topic. I would like to say that one of the biggest things missing in most every thread remotely relating to this is the concept of parallel truths.
Most Christians everywhere readily acknowledge that scripture clearly teaches both God's righteousness/holiness, and also His Mercy.
God is close, personal,knows us intimately, and also transcendent --his ways are higher than our ways, and his wisdom is beyond our comprehension.
The same is true with God's sovereignty and the free will of man-- God is omnipotent, but man has a role/responsibility. This thread shows both views.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... php?t=3771
In God's mind, there is not a contradiction. We would do well to affirm this truth, and not unChristianize those on the other side.
Both views can be taken to extreme. HyperCalvinism -- God hates some, His Death was only for some but not others, and that man has no part, role, or responsibility in Salvation, and those who are elected cannot refuse.
Hyper Arminianism --Man is the one who comes to God, however and whenever he wants, and on his terms. And every time they make a mistake they lose their salvation, like a person who misplaces the remote. This extreme view, leads them to think that they will live in sin until the next revival, or when ever they decide to come to God.
I attended a Calvinist school while attending an Arminian church, so have seen both sides, and have regularly attended churches ranging from PCA [5 point Calvinist] to Wesleyan Holiness, Bible Methodist, to Russian Baptist, and Evangelical Free in Poland.
The mark of maturity is not Calvinism, or how many points they agree with, or if they are Arminian, or something inbetween,but do they extend grace to brothers who believe differently.
