The "Born-Again Christian" Experience

[Jagella]

I have some questions about how people become converts to evangelical or fundamentalist Christianity. My questions include but are not limited to the following:

• When did you have your conversion experience?
  What was your world-view prior to conversion (atheism, Roman Catholicism, mainstream Protestant, non-Christian religion, etc.)?
  Did you hear anything on radio, read anything or watch anything on TV or video that influenced your decision to convert?
  Did any people you know encourage you to convert?
  Did you have any experiences that led you to become born-again?
  Were you eager to convert, or did you have some misgivings?
  After you converted, were your experiences as a Christian all positive, or did you have some negative experiences?
  Would you say that Christianity has improved the quality of life? What did you gain, and did you have any losses?
  Do you ever have doubts about fundamental Christian claims, or are you certain that it's all true?
  Do you share your conversion experience with others hoping they will follow your example?

Thanks!

Jagella

[Slopeshoulder]

I was "born-again," sort of, and VERY briefly.
It was 29 years ago, when i was 21.
I was catholic, bored, drifted away.
I had some emotional trauma, mostly having to do with girls, couldn't find my way, wondered what it's all about, demanded more and better understanding. I read Dostoievski (good) and CS Lewis (not so much). I went to a mainline church, got WAY into it, and joined. Turns out it was 50% evangelical-fundamentalist. This was the early 80's just as fundy belief was taking hold in the suburbs among college educated people (mostly scared lunkheaded corporate middle managers who were afraid of meaninglessness, rapid change, family instability, and sex).

After doing bible study and going on a lame retreat, i concluded, quickly, that:
- it was appealing to people who were screwed up or traumatized in some way; now they were addicted to jesus.
- it was appealing to people who were intellectually lazy, inclined to binary thinking, and satisfied with simple answers.
- it was appealing to people who need something to be OK and to have a safe space and community NOW.
- it was appealing to people who like fantasy and epics
- it was for people driven by fear, ego, and a willingness to to accept anything and otherize their opponents in order get themeselves a nice little god-gasm for all eternity.
- it was appealing to people who want to project their nueroses and wrap them in a divine blanket.
- It was appealing to people who want to shrink God to fit in a a box small enough to carry around in their pocket.
- It was appealing to people who feel weak and want power, the ultimate big brothr to protect them.
- I'm not a moron or a jerk and deserve better than this. Unfortunatly a girl I wanted to marry and a few ood friends went down the rabbbit hole.

So i went and got two elite degrees in religion and theology and rescued myself. I've studied, lived, and contemplated ever since. And now i am a post-modern, wittgensteinian, semi-heretical-catholic-daoist-buddhist, world-religion lovin,' progressive, musician. It would take a multi-volume book to summarize what I have learned and where i have journeyed.

I have long believed (28 years) that modern (post '60's) evangelical, biblicist, fundamentalist christianity (as well as other religious ultra-orthodoxies) is theogically, psychologically, politically, ethically, sociologically, culturally, and intellectually a cancer, and represents the fastest track to armegeddon and devolution. I believe it is a pathology infecting individuals and groups. If there is a God, I 'm sure he despises it.
I may disagree with, but I exempt from this indictment the intellectual and liberal evenagelical traditions associated with some mainstream churches and respected scholars (Wright, Huaerwas, Hays, Frei, Lindbeck, the Niebuhr's, etc). I may disagree, but I respect them and they have a lot to commend them.

In conclusion, the usual version of being born again I experienced like a mugging, or even a spirit rape.
HOWEVER, the real symbolism: transformation (metanoia) has always stayed with me and been determinative, just better understood in a way that is not evangelical.

I hope that is helpful.

[Jagella]

Thank you so much for the helpful and informative reply.

I can see that your experience with born-again Christianity was largely negative. As strange as it may sound, I was hoping that you or somebody else would share a positive story of his or her conversion. Christianity, especially the version touted by apologists, is a world-view that I find to be ridiculous and false. Nevertheless, I often wonder if I'm missing something. After all, what makes me so special that I'm one of the few people who recognize that God doesn't exist and that the Bible is full of fabrications?

Like you, I experienced emotional troubles with women, and I think those troubles may have been a factor in my conversion to born-again Christianity. Maybe I figured that if I can't score with women here on earth, then Jesus would make it up to me in heaven. One Christian I know, upon my pointing out that there is presumably no sex in heaven, explained that heaven is better than sex.

Freud would have a field day with that Christian and me, don't you think?

Also like you, I converted in the 1980s. It's interesting that both our conversions took place in that sad, difficult decade. Christian evangelism seemed to be very active then. I remember Jimmy Swaggart on television waving his Bible and condemning homosexuals, pornographers, and rock musicians. I was and am guilty of the latter two sins.

Yet another experience we share in common is that of leaving the faith as a result of seeing its many faults. How could a perfect God start such an imperfect system of belief? When I finally left Christianity I felt humiliated, disgusted, and scared.

Anyway, thanks again for the reply.

Jagella

[Slopeshoulder]

My conversion of spirit has been fantastic and wonderful.

But the evangelical phase indeed was a horror.

[sleepyhead]

Hello Jagella,

I have some questions about how people become converts to evangelical or fundamentalist Christianity. My questions include but are not limited to the following:

• When did you have your conversion experience?
  
  In 1972 during a jesus movement.
  
  What was your world-view prior to conversion (atheism, Roman Catholicism, mainstream Protestant, non-Christian religion, etc.)?
  
  I had just recently converted to the LDS church from Catholocism
  
  Did you hear anything on radio, read anything or watch anything on TV or video that influenced your decision to convert?
  
  The movie "The ten commandments" was rereleased and that influenced me.
  
  Did any people you know encourage you to convert?
  
  It was a stranger who witnessed to me.
  
  Did you have any experiences that led you to become born-again?
  
  Camt think of any.
  
  Were you eager to convert, or did you have some misgivings?
  
  I don't recall having any misgivings.
  
  After you converted, were your experiences as a Christian all positive, or did you have some negative experiences?
  
  some negative but mostly positive.
  
  Would you say that Christianity has improved the quality of life? What did you gain, and did you have any losses?
  
  Enabled some social relationships.
  
  Do you ever have doubts about fundamental Christian claims, or are you certain that it's all true?
  
  My beliefs have evolved a great deal from the fundamentalist Christian claims.
  
  Do you share your conversion experience with others hoping they will follow your example?

no

[McCulloch]

When did you have your conversion experience?

1979

What was your world-view prior to conversion (atheism, Roman Catholicism, mainstream Protestant, non-Christian religion, etc.)?

Nominally mainstream Protestant. Agnostic I-don't-care, really.

Did you hear anything on radio, read anything or watch anything on TV or video that influenced your decision to convert?

No.

Did any people you know encourage you to convert?

Yes. GF, her family and their church.

Did you have any experiences that led you to become born-again?

No. It just came as a realization that this seems right.

Were you eager to convert, or did you have some misgivings?

I was fully aware of the stigma attached to being a religious nut in Canadian society. But felt that it was better to be right than be accepted.

After you converted, were your experiences as a Christian all positive, or did you have some negative experiences?

Both. Mainly positive.

Would you say that Christianity has improved the quality of life? What did you gain, and did you have any losses?

Got married (different girl). Still married to her. Still in love. ... with her. Still keep in touch with some of the friends we made back then.

Do you ever have doubts about fundamental Christian claims, or are you certain that it's all true?

Needless to say, yes. I started having doubts, so I decided to attend Bible college full time to get a better theoretical grounding in my faith. I found out through more thorough study that my doubts were all justified. The evidential foundation for Biblical Christianity is not sound.

Do you share your conversion experience with others hoping they will follow your example?

Yes. Back then I might have put it this way, "God used me in the conversion of a few of my university classmates. He also used me to reach out to the deaf community where we lived. "

[Sosthenes]

Sosthenes

I did not have an experience as many claim.

At the age of 14 I answered the gospel call according to (2Thess. 2:14).

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,

All men/women are called by the gospel.

When truth *the seed" we read about in (Luke 8:5-15) is placed in the good and honest heart, they are then led by the Spirit to obey the Lords commands (Rom. 8:14) (1Cor.14:37) (James 1:18).

I heard the gospel of (1Cor.15:1-4) which shows us Christ part in the gospel. I had been shown in the New Testament each person must hear, understand, believe and obey truth to be saved (Rom.6:16-18) (John 17:17) (1Tim. 2:4) (John 7:17) (Eph.5:17).

Only obeying truth will purify the soul (1Peter 1:22).One cannot obey error and expect to be purified.

One must believe that Jesus is the Son of God (John 8:24) (John 1)
One must repent of sins (Luke 13:3)
One must confess Jesus is the Son of God (Rom.10:9,10)
One must be baptized (immersed in water for the remission of sins) (Acts 2:38 ; 8:38,39 ; 22:16) (Gal. 3:27) (1Peter 3:21) (Rom.6:3-6 ; 16-18).
One is not freed from sin until they have obeyed all the steps found above in the scriptures (Rom.6:16-18).

If we read (Acts 2:36-38 ; 8:26-39 ; 22:16) We will learn what the word of God tells people to do to become a child of God (Rom.6 16-18).

The Lord did not tell Paul what to do to be saved, rather he sent Paul (then Saul) to go to another man (Acts 9:1-6).The reason is because a heavenly vessels will not tell and earthly vessel how to be saved (2Cor.4:7). The gospel is always preached by men (2Tim. 2:2).

*I had always attended the church of Christ from my youth.(Rom. 16:16)
*I heard truth taught from the pulpit and my parents.
*My parents and church friends encouraged me to obey the gospel.
*I only experienced what you read above.
*I was eager to obey truth.
*After obeying the gospel I had both good and bad times.
*Christianity has improved my life in so many ways. I now understand why man is on earth and what man is supposed to be doing while he is here. We are to glorify God through the Church. I dropped old friends who were doing nothing but leading me in the wrong direction.I dropped old habits which kept me from studying the word of God. I need to be ready to teach people truth so they to can be saved and go to heaven one day.
* Everyone has doubts
* Yes, I hope you follow what I have posted if you have not done so to this point.

[Overcomer]

I think we really need to define just what it means to be "born again". It strikes me from what I have read in this thread, that people don't understand it. Here's how it works:

We are all born with a sin nature. That means that our spirits are dead in sin. Upon accepting Christ in sincere faith (conversion), God regenerates our spirits, that is, he brings them alive. That is what it means to be "born again". It refers to the instantaneous regeneration of the spirit. It is a work that God performs. We can't do it ourselves and nobody else can do it to us or for us. It's all about God giving us new life and begining a transformation in us.

The kind of "spiritual mugging" or "spiritual rape" that slopeshoulder described has nothing to do with God and everything to do with the devil. I, too, have had some bad experiences with people who thought of themselves as Christians, but didn't know and follow the Lord at all. But no one should reject Jesus and the Church because of some of the bad apples that misrepresent God. Judge Christianity on the basis of Christ, not people. I must say that the Lord is always gentle and loving with me, even when he's teaching me a lesson that I don't particularly want to learn.

It is entirely possible for people to spend time in churches and hang out with Christians and never be born again. In fact, anybody who says they used to be a born-again Christian never was. You can't be "unborn" spiritually any more than you can be "unborn" physically.

It's like this: You can sit in a chicken coop and cluck and eat chicken feed, but that doesn't make you a chicken. By the same token, you can sit in a church, sing the hymns and listen to sermons, but that doesn't make you a Christian.

There are people who spend their entire lives going to church who NEVER enter into a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Holy Spirit. There are people who are Christians in name only and not in reality. Their spirits were never regenerated and they were never born again.

You can tell who is born again and who isn't. A true Christian, upon being filled with the Holy Spirit, embarks on a process of sanctification under the guidance and by the power of that Holy Spirit. It's a life-long process in which the believer grows more and more like Christ, becoming spiritually mature and serving the Lord. You will never find a perfect Christian, but you will find Christians who are being perfected.

As for my personal story, Jesus revealed himself to me as a child. I had a vision of him taking my hand and I knew that he would walk with me throughout my life. I would sit in my desk at school and wonder why people didn't believe in God. After all, I prayed to him and my prayers were answered and after about a hundred of such answers, it's a little hard to call them coincidences! LOL!

So I grew up always knowing the Lord. However, I didn't always follow him closely. It was only when I was disabled in a car accident that I really started to spend time with him and study my Bible and look for answers to the big questions of life. That's when I entered into a much deeper relationship with him. My journey with him continues as I go through the process of sanctification. I can tell you that life with Jesus is always interesting, always challenging. I experience his joy, his peace, his strength and I tell people who don't know him that they're missing the best thing ever!

[Slopeshoulder]

I think we really need to define just what it means to be "born again". It strikes me from what I have read in this thread, that people don't understand it. Here's how it works:

We are all born with a sin nature. That means that our spirits are dead in sin. Upon accepting Christ in sincere faith (conversion), God regenerates our spirits, that is, he brings them alive. That is what it means to be "born again". It refers to the instantaneous regeneration of the spirit. It is a work that God performs. We can't do it ourselves and nobody else can do it to us or for us. It's all about God giving us new life and begining a transformation in us.

Why would you think we don't understand what born again christians believe?

The kind of "spiritual mugging" or "spiritual rape" that slopeshoulder described has nothing to do with God and everything to do with the devil.

Then this confirms my 30 year old conviction that evangelical, biblicist, fundamentalist, born again christianity is not of God , but of the devil (not that I believe in the devil, let's say it's from the dark, bad, fallen, deluded part of us, representing a perversion of healthy and good religion).

I, too, have had some bad experiences with people who thought of themselves as Christians, but didn't know and follow the Lord at all. But no one should reject Jesus and the Church because of some of the bad apples that misrepresent God. Judge Christianity on the basis of Christ, not people.

I agree, instead we should reject evangelical, biblicist, fundamentalist perversions of christianity. Which is what I did.

There are people who spend their entire lives going to church who NEVER enter into a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

This is becaue many devout christians see evangelical, biblicist, fundamentalist, born again christianity as a crock. But they are tranformed, converted, metanoia'd, etc. Born agains make such an idol of thier version fo the faith that they are blined to this in their fellow christians.

There are people who are Christians in name only and not in reality. Their spirits were never regenerated and they were never born again.

See above. Born againness is one version of christianity; it does not and has never defined christianity. But I do affirm that for something to be reasonably real some sort of conversion/transformation/metanoia needs to take place.

You can tell who is born again and who isn't. A true Christian, upon being filled with the Holy Spirit, embarks on a process of sanctification under the guidance and by the power of that Holy Spirit. It's a life-long process in which the believer grows more and more like Christ, becoming spiritually mature and serving the Lord. You will never find a perfect Christian, but you will find Christians who are being perfected.

It is against the rules of this forum to declare who is and isn't a true christian. For example, I'm a progressive semi-heretical catholic christian agnostic religious humanist inclusivist, a postmodern existentialist, semi-narrative wittgensteinian fidest, with a great fondness for world religion and little tolerance for magical thinking, biblicism, or calvinism. And I'm hyper liberal on social and sexual issues. And I'm a seminary grad who has never renounced nor been put out of the church. What does that make me? Oops, per the rules, thou must remaineth silent.

I'm sincerely glad you believe you have a great relationship with Jesus. Just watch who you call unchristian, and don't assume all christians need to be like you. OK?

[Furrowed Brow]

- it was appealing to people who were screwed up or traumatized in some way; now they were addicted to jesus.
- it was appealing to people who were intellectually lazy, inclined to binary thinking, and satisfied with simple answers.
- it was appealing to people who need something to be OK and to have a safe space and community NOW.
- it was appealing to people who like fantasy and epics
- it was for people driven by fear, ego, and a willingness to to accept anything and otherize their opponents in order get themeselves a nice little god-gasm for all eternity.
- it was appealing to people who want to project their nueroses and wrap them in a divine blanket.
- It was appealing to people who want to shrink God to fit in a a box small enough to carry around in their pocket.
- It was appealing to people who feel weak and want power, the ultimate big brothr to protect them.
.............
I have long believed (28 years) that modern (post '60's) evangelical, biblicist, fundamentalist christianity (as well as other religious ultra-orthodoxies) is theogically, psychologically, politically, ethically, sociologically, culturally, and intellectually a cancer, and represents the fastest track to armegeddon and devolution. I believe it is a pathology infecting individuals and groups. If there is a God, I 'm sure he despises it.

Now If I said all that .....and it is not so far away from what I often feel....I'd probably be accused of being biased.