Questions on religion?

[JamieM]

Hello,

My name is Jamie and this is my first post here. I am not a religious person though chritisanity was the popular faith in my schooling so I guess this is the one I relate to most.

However, in general, religion really does fascinated me and I would ike to understand why there are so many believers.

I hope that you will alow me to ask some questions. Once I receive some of the answers hopefully my question will intensify and become more specific.

Isn't it true that many people (although not all) are brought up through childhood to follow a particular religion? So basically you are programmed to your belief. It doesn't really matter what religion you were brought up with, you would have probably believed whatever you were told in this regard.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ walked on water and performed these many miracles which have been claimed. What would you think if a newspaper reported that today a man was seen walking across the surface of the water. I expect you would think it was a load of rubbish. So why is it that you believe the word of the bible.

How can you fully understand what is being said in the bible? The language used does not make sense to me.

What is religion really about, what is it's purpose?

I will leave it at that for now and hope to receive some good answers soon.

Many thanks.

Jamie.

[otseng]

Welcome to the forum Jamie.

Isn't it true that many people (although not all) are brought up through childhood to follow a particular religion?

This is probably true.

So basically you are programmed to your belief. It doesn't really matter what religion you were brought up with, you would have probably believed whatever you were told in this regard.

Actually, I am different. I was raised in a non-religious home. Though there were influences of Buddhism and Christianity, we never discussed religion in my home. I came to be a Christian in college.

I would say the religion one is brought up does matter. And depending on the experience, it would sway one to believe or not to believe in that religion. I would say that generally, if one has a positive experience with that religion, it would sway the person to accept that religion. If one has a negative experience, it would sway the person to reject that religion.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ walked on water and performed these many miracles which have been claimed. What would you think if a newspaper reported that today a man was seen walking across the surface of the water. I expect you would think it was a load of rubbish. So why is it that you believe the word of the bible.

Since Jesus claimed to be God, I would expect him to have some supernatural powers. If he didn't, I would actually be more skeptical of his claims.

But miracles should not be the basis of one's faith. Even demonic forces can do miracles, but that doesn't mean we should follow them.

The basis should be a faith that resonates with our heart and with our mind. Does it make sense to my heart? Does it make sense to my mind? I believe Christianity fulfills both.

How can you fully understand what is being said in the bible?

I don't think anyone can fully understand it. Mankind has been studying it, criticizing it, debating it, analyzing it for thousands of years and we still don't fully understand it.

However, the main plot of the Bible is easy to understand. God desires to have a relationship with his children. But his children are rebellious. So God sends a messenger to Earth to show them how much he loves them.

The language used does not make sense to me.

Are you referring to the King James Version? Most modern translations are quite readable - New International Version, New American Standard, etc.

What is religion really about, what is it's purpose?

Christianity is about only one thing really - love.

Mat 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

[harvey1]

What would you think if a newspaper reported that today a man was seen walking across the surface of the water. I expect you would think it was a load of rubbish. So why is it that you believe the word of the bible.

That was funny! Good one.

But, let me return that one by saying what if the same newspaper reported that scientists found a rock and it was infinitely old (let's say that dating methods improved drastically...). Wouldn't you think that would be a load of rubbish too? Or, what if that newspaper reported that this same rock had a computer chip inside of it, wouldn't that be even more rubbish? How can a rock be infinitely old and have a computer chip inside it? Yet, with a little abstract thought, this is the very thing that must be true for atheism to be right...

So, if whatever the history of our universe, one thing seems certain, there's a story waiting to be told (or has been told) that would sound to our ears as a lot of rubbish. That story is one that religion has gradually improved upon over thousands of years in its telling. It doesn't mean the story is historically correct, but I for one think that humans are in touch with our intuitive natures, and although religion is sloppy with history, it is excellent in getting to the heart of the intuitive facts that matter.

So, Jamie, your newspaper might be reporting the news incorrectly, but it isn't telling you the heart of that story. The story of what intuitive minds e.g. - "Einstein's" and "Curie's", "Beethoven's" and "Mozart's", "Aristotle's" and "Wittgenstein's", have all existed in the past to tell. Only recently has the human mind turned mostly away from intuitive thought, but we still have modern confirmed examples of how powerful this line of thought can be. See here.

How can you fully understand what is being said in the bible? The language used does not make sense to me. What is religion really about, what is it's purpose?

It's not easy in my opinion to understand what is being said in the bible. It has large sections where humanity is just starting to awaken to spiritual truth, and therefore those sections are like reading the director's cut of the Pulp Fiction script. However, over time, I think it becomes apparent that there are much larger sections of scripture that tell a very important story, one in which gives ultimate meaning to human life (and not the "here's a rock, worship it and give it thanks" meaning that atheists would like to give to people...).

As for the purpose of religion, I think that is best summed up by Jesus:

Then they brought him to Jesus. And they threw their own clothes on the colt, and they set Jesus on him. And as He went, many spread their clothes on the road. Then, as He was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works they had seen, saying:

• Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the LORD!' Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!

And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples." But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out."

Herein lies the purpose of religion. It is a response so innate and so human, that it fuels humans to all kinds of acts that if not channeled appropriately, can lead to fascist regimes, communist state atheism religions (btw, atheism has a terrible track record when it comes to governing... ), etc. Religion might seem to be mixed with some psychological need, and I suspect that it is, but I think it is more than that. I think it is the nature of the universe to cry out "Abba, Father" that we are the children of God.

[unprofitable servant]

Hello Jamie.

What is religion really about, what is it's purpose?

Man's definition of religion to me means 'coming again to God' but I don't believe in mans understanding of what religion is.

I believe in the bibles testimony of what religion is when it says at James 1:27

27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Isn't it true that many people (although not all) are brought up through childhood to follow a particular religion? So basically you are programmed to your belief. It doesn't really matter what religion you were brought up with, you would have probably believed whatever you were told in this regard.

Yes many are programmed to a way of thinking and believing.But not just in this arena. Our whole life is programmed to believe what someone in authority says do or believe.

But the real thing is being able to follow Jesus Christ and not man.

[bernee51]

I hope that you will alow me to ask some questions.

A warm welcome to you Jamie. Questions are not only appreciated on this forum but expected.

Isn't it true that many people (although not all) are brought up through childhood to follow a particular religion? So basically you are programmed to your belief. It doesn't really matter what religion you were brought up with, you would have probably believed whatever you were told in this regard.

I couldn't agree more. We are all born atheists - any belief is part of our aculturalization. As our levels of consciousness grow we move through various stages - magical, mythical, rational and so on. Conventional christian religious belief is well and truly part of the mythical.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ walked on water and performed these many miracles which have been claimed. What would you think if a newspaper reported that today a man was seen walking across the surface of the water. I expect you would think it was a load of rubbish. So why is it that you believe the word of the bible.

Personally I do not believe it happended, any more so than any of the many other fantastic stories that go to make up the cultural history of homo sapiens. It flabbergasts me to hear believers of one faith decrying the authenicity of the supernatural presented in myths of another faith while blindly accepting the same or similar stories in their own.

How can you fully understand what is being said in the bible? The language used does not make sense to me.

If it is taken for what it truly is, myth and metaphor, it can make a little more sense. For a deeper understanding of the palce of myth in the evolution of society I suggest reading Joseph Campbell.

What is religion really about, what is it's purpose?

A deep question - one philosophers have grappled with for millennia.

As it refers to the personal subjective it has been suggested that religion can be translative or transformative or a mixture of both.

The translative aspects of religion do not usually or necessarily change the level of consciousness of a person nor bring about any deep-seated transformation. It tends to console that apart of the self that deals with the world. As long as there is belief in the myths, performance of prescribed rituals, the mouthing of prayers and/or embrace of dogma then there is, it is fervently believed, salvation – either now in the glory of being god-saved or in the promise of an afterlife that ensures eternal peace. This has the effect of consoling the self and helps make sense of and tolerate the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

For a few however religion can be a transformation. It can act as a liberator of the self that offers not a conventional reinforcement of current level of consciousness but a radical transformation that brings about change at the deepest levels of being. This transformation challenges and undermines all that goes to make up the translative aspects of religion. It is not found in myth and dogma but at the deepest level of all sentient beings. It is not god given, it is self grasped.

[JamieM]

What would you think if a newspaper reported that today a man was seen walking across the surface of the water. I expect you would think it was a load of rubbish. So why is it that you believe the word of the bible.

That was funny! Good one.

But, let me return that one by saying what if the same newspaper reported that scientists found a rock and it was infinitely old (let's say that dating methods improved drastically...). Wouldn't you think that would be a load of rubbish too?

No

Or, what if that newspaper reported that this same rock had a computer chip inside of it, wouldn't that be even more rubbish? How can a rock be infinitely old and have a computer chip inside it? Yet, with a little abstract thought, this is the very thing that must be true for atheism to be right...

Sorry I don't really get your point here. I am not an atheist, I am very open minded and for that reason I would not rubbish an old rock with a computer chip inside. In my opinion you must consider the universe and the possibility of higher beings from other planets. Perhaps Jesus Christ is such a being. My point is that many people would not believe the story in the paper yet they do believe the word of the bible. Why?

I get the impression, though I may be wrong, that you are saying that the bible is not a factual story in entirity. Are you saying it is partially written to provoke thought and express feeling amongst it's readers? Perhaps in a metaphorical sense like someone else mentioned.

I must admit that I find some of the replies here quite confusing and that many of you are passing on your thoughts through your knowledge of religion. In effect you are speaking a language of religion which I am not familiar with and I find it difficult to determine what some of you mean.

Thanks for the replies so far, I would like to ask more questions, though I am going to watch a bit of God TV as this is always good at inspiring questions in my mind.

Be back soon, thanks!

[unprofitable servant]

I must admit that I find some of the replies here quite confusing and that many of you are passing on your thoughts through your knowledge of religion. In effect you are speaking a language of religion which I am not familiar with and I find it difficult to determine what some of you mean.

What is "the language of religion" that is confusing you? Maybe I jumped in too fast

[Dilettante]

Hi JamieM,

I consider myself agnostic, so I'll confess I have no knowledge about God. But I'll try to answer your questions as best I can...

Isn't it true that many people (although not all) are brought up through childhood to follow a particular religion? So basically you are programmed to your belief. It doesn't really matter what religion you were brought up with, you would have probably believed whatever you were told in this regard.

Probably. But we know that people do sometimes abandon their beliefs or acquire new ones. So it isn't like the program is definitive.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ walked on water and performed these many miracles which have been claimed. What would you think if a newspaper reported that today a man was seen walking across the surface of the water. I expect you would think it was a load of rubbish. So why is it that you believe the word of the bible.

As I said, I'm not sure that those miracles happened exactly as described. It could be all poetic license for all I know. They haven't been proven. But then again very few things can be proven beyond doubt. Maybe Mozart never existed (his body has not yet been found). We have his music, but it could be the work of someone else. What I think is that it is permissible for us to believe things we can't prove beyond doubt as long as those things do not contradict reason.

How can you fully understand what is being said in the bible? The language used does not make sense to me.

I don't. Most likely nobody does. Not only because of the language, but because of the socio-cultural context. The people who come closer to understanding the Bible, if not fully, at least in considerable depth, are specialists. Everyone can read the Bible, but few can even begin to understand it. Perhaps that's why so many people don't even try.

What is religion really about, what is it's purpose?

I have never seen a satisfactory definition of religion. "Religion" in general is a slippery topic. Different religions have different purposes. Some religions attempt to lead you to a heaven where all your desires will be fulfilled. Others claim that happiness lies precisely in the removal of all desire. So there is no single purpose.

[Bro Dave]

Hi JamieM, you have mail!

Bro Dave

[RevJP]

Just a few short comments:

I get the impression, though I may be wrong, that you are saying that the bible is not a factual story in entirity. Are you saying it is partially written to provoke thought and express feeling amongst it's readers? Perhaps in a metaphorical sense like someone else mentioned.

The Bible is an amazing document in its complexity and simplicity. As was mentioned there are some very understandable translations (NIV being one of the best IMO), so the letter of scriptures can be read and understood by almost anyone. The paraphrases of scripture "Bible in Basic English, The Message, etc. make the essence of scripture even that much more understandable to anyone.

The complexity and simplicity lies in the nature of the writing, the duality of it. Many debate over whether the bible is literal or figurative - it is both, simultaneously. Do I believe the events depicted are literal? Yes, but those same events, or should I say depictions of those events also speak to the spirit, they are metaphorical for our spiritual lives as well as a historical record.