Question for non-theists ...

[McCulloch]

First off, this is not a debate thread. If you wish to debate, there are lots of places to debate on this site. But this thread is for discussion.

We non-theists do not accept the claim by the Christians that the Bible is a document inspired by the living God. But, we cannot deny the huge impact that this collection of writings has had on our civilization. And it is hard to imagine that anything that has been so influential to so many for so long has nothing of value, meaning or beauty.

So, here is our chance. What is it in the Bible that you like or appreciate? What specifically do you find in the Bible that is good?

If the answer is nothing, then simply don't post.

[McCulloch]

I'll go first. The parable of the Good Samaritan, it think is an absolutely great story. It tells a truth that needs to be told. It slams the self-righteous and promotes genuine altruism. It works on so many levels. It has become so much of our culture, that many people who could not tell a Samaritan from a Phoenician, know what a Good Samaritan is.

[Ooberman]

I think the Pericope Adulterae is a great story. Similar to what Mc has said about the Good Samaritan, it puts the powerless ahead of the powerful, especially when justice is involved.

John 7:53-8:11 (KJV):

7:53 And every man went unto his own house. 8:1 Jesus went unto the Mount of Olives. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now, we don't know what the character Jesus was supposed to have written, but it may have been a literary device. If he wrote something lame, the story would fail, but because we don't know, judging from the reaction of the scribes and Pharisees, we can guess it was pretty cool. Maybe their own infidelities or sins?

[snoogy]

For me it would have to be the values and ideals that it sets out. it's just a shame that they haven't been listened to.

[sleepyhead]

First off, this is not a debate thread. If you wish to debate, there are lots of places to debate on this site. But this thread is for discussion.

We non-theists do not accept the claim by the Christians that the Bible is a document inspired by the living God. But, we cannot deny the huge impact that this collection of writings has had on our civilization. And it is hard to imagine that anything that has been so influential to so many for so long has nothing of value, meaning or beauty.

So, here is our chance. What is it in the Bible that you like or appreciate? What specifically do you find in the Bible that is good?

If the answer is nothing, then simply don't post.

hello McCulloch,

I have a special liking for the stories of the OT. For me they are about a race of people who are suddenly placed in an environment where they need to be concerned of what God wants them to do. How God responds to the Israelites provides insight into what God is like.

[Ooberman]

Actually, I will add more. Since I was raised on Xianity, the basic theology is ingrained in me. I understand the concept of Good vs Evil in the personifications of the characters, the narrative arc of the characters and the whole idea of sin, redemption, paradise, hell, etc.

What is (arguably) great is that, because these themes are taught when you are young, you tend to see most things in these terms and when another writer alludes to them, you recognize the context and it makes the play, movie or book more rich.

For example, you can't watch a Bergman film without knowing the Bible, you can't laugh at the irreverence of the Life of Brian or the Holy Grail without it, you can't fully appreciate a painting by Caravaggio without knowing the Bible, or understand why "Piss Jesus" is a great work of art.

For example, if "Chocolate Jesus" was "Chocolate Steven" it would just be some dude on a stick, but because of the fear and reverence we were taught to have, irreverence takes on another meaning.

Growing up means your childish beliefs are sacrificed and the more reverent, the better, in a way.

So, there are so many aspects of the Biblical story that are peppered throughout Western art, and the fact that I was raised to revere and honor it, makes it much more enjoyable when it is referenced in other art forms.

Had I been raised a Buddhist or Hindu, I might recognize other themes, but I would have missed so much depth of a large swath of Western Art and Architecture.

Personally, I don't like the Bible as literature, but the religion that came out of it has been able to mature and ripen into a pretty thick and meaty mythology with plenty of layers.

[YaeMPs]

The Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you woud have others do unto you"

This sentiment charachterizes perfectly for me the essence of the Christianity that I was born into in rural Ontario. I think this attitude is why (moderate) Christians are such nice people.

I would go so far as to say that it is impossible to find fault with this ideal which is, I guess, why variations of it can be found in many religions and cultural foudations throughout the world.

[McCulloch]

The Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"

This sentiment characterizes perfectly for me the essence of the Christianity that I was born into in rural Ontario. I think this attitude is why (moderate) Christians are such nice people.

I would go so far as to say that it is impossible to find fault with this ideal which is, I guess, why variations of it can be found in many religions and cultural foundations throughout the world.

OK, but the outstanding question is whether variations of the Christian Golden Rule are to be found in other religions and ideologies world wide or is it that Christianity is merely one of the many variations on this universal principle.

[font=Times New Roman]Being from rural Ontario you might relate to the whole chicken and egg paradox. While I'm a big city guy (Toronto), my family roots are from farms near Allenford and Elsinore [paternal] (near Owen Sound) and farms near St. Thomas and Alymer [maternal] (S of London).[/font]

[YaeMPs]

According to Wikipedia the earliest written examples are from ancient egypt 2040 - 1650 BCE which would predate the earliest Biblical references.
Examples are also to be found in Taoism, Bhuddism, Hinduism and very many other Religions whose records aren't quite so ancient but have existed a very long time. Seemingly the entire globe is painted with the wisdom of these words.

Did this axiom (can we call it that?) occur indepently to all these diverse cultures by virtue of its obvious logic or perhaps by some mammalian tendency towards empathy? Or is it rooted in some truly ancient pre-historic oral tradition that spread with human migration or by dissemination?

I surely don't know.

[Druijf]

I think the book of Samuel is a good piece of literature about friendship, honor, revenge. The more poetical parts in the prophetic books are beautiful from a literary perspective.