As a Roman Catholic, I was taught that when one dies they automatically enter purgatory. And in purgatory, you are purged of your sins before you enter into heaven.
Is there any biblical basis for this doctrine?
Is Purgatory Biblical?
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Heterodoxus
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Re: Is Purgatory Biblical?
Post #2No offense intended but, despite the teachings of the Catholic "church fathers," there is, as best as I'm able to recall offhand, no legitimate Scripture support for that doctrine. To provide a more detailed response would require me to perform an in-depth reanalysis of Scripture.WinePusher wrote:Is there any biblical basis for [the doctrine of Purgatory]?
However, I'm not interested enough in the issue of whether or not there is a spiritual purgatorium to do that. Anyone else?
[center]"That upon which you set your heart and put your trust is properly your god."[/center]
[right]~Martin Luther, Large Catechism 1.1-3.[/right]
[right]~Martin Luther, Large Catechism 1.1-3.[/right]
Re: Is Purgatory Biblical?
Post #3None. of which I am aware.WinePusher wrote:As a Roman Catholic, I was taught that when one dies they automatically enter purgatory. And in purgatory, you are purged of your sins before you enter into heaven.
Is there any biblical basis for this doctrine?
As far as I can tell, it is an ancient religious superstition.
According to the dictionary the word comes from the Latin word "purgatorium" which means a place of cleansing. We get our English word "purge" from the same word.
http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-d ... /purgatory
According to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory#cite_note-7
" the conception of purgatory as a geographically situated place is largely the creation of medieval Christian piety and imagination."
The bible teaches us that people are dead already in their sins. If all the living people on this planet are really dead in their sins then does not make this earth the place of the dead where people suffer for their sins or "pay the price" or suffer the consequences of their actions? Can people who are dead already die again?
If you are dead in sins and get cleansed or purged from the sins and then die again. You are dying to death not dying to life. If you die to death you end up in life ( heaven ) not in death ( hell) or any other place. There is only life and death. There is nothing in between.
If any place is literal purgatory it would be this planet earth which can also be perceived as hell and a place of punishment since this is the place where sin reigns in the mortal body. While on this earth in our temporary life time, we either learn to be good and become "god like"/ gods or we become "devil like"/devils and choose to live and die in sin.
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Slopeshoulder
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Post #4
No, there is no scriptural basis that I know of. But so what? Catholics don't make an ossified idol of scripture, never have.
I'm unfamiliar with the theology that led to it.
BUT, as time has gone on I have come to really appreciate the doctrine of purgatory for two reasons:
First, without it, the heaven or hell option is harshly binary. One or the other, no in-between, and for reasons that seem inadequete. Either "too many" or "too few" folks go to one or the other. People find that troublesome, and for good reason. So Purgatory offers a third place that mediates between the two and functions as the place where most people "go." Or they already are now if you consider it a metaphor.
Second, other traditions, notably Hinduism and Buddhism, have an analogy in the notion of rebirth. Rebirth and Purgatory are both about ongoing soul work and manage to overcome the binary heaven-or-hell-for-eternity-after-this-brief-life problem that Protestants are stuck with. Of course, the ideas (purgatory and rebirth) are different, but their function is the same: ongoing soul work. I find that fascinating. (BTW, in the same way, the Catholic saints function like the jillions of local "gods" in Hinduism: as interest and location-specific experience mediators of the divine. Luther was so austere and sin obsessed that he drained some really cool humane stuff out of the tradition).
The Catholics thought about this, one of the best things they do, and came up with an imaginative and humane solution in the form of...Purgatory. Bravo. I'd like to read the theology. I take none of this literally, but instead see it as a way to frame life. And I prefer the Catholic, Hindu, Buddhist lens on this issue. I prefer detachment and awakening to purgation, but whatever.
Rather than literally believe it, you may choose to "affirm" doctrines like this, that is, consider them a core dimension of the story and identity of your faith, including the Catholic inclination to actually think about this stuff in an ongoing and extra-biblical way. In this way you stand in the catholic tradition, and remain a catholic, but you don't have to sound like a nut case and believe magic stuff. And if your fundy bible friends give you a hard time about purgatory, tell them they can go to hell.
I'm unfamiliar with the theology that led to it.
BUT, as time has gone on I have come to really appreciate the doctrine of purgatory for two reasons:
First, without it, the heaven or hell option is harshly binary. One or the other, no in-between, and for reasons that seem inadequete. Either "too many" or "too few" folks go to one or the other. People find that troublesome, and for good reason. So Purgatory offers a third place that mediates between the two and functions as the place where most people "go." Or they already are now if you consider it a metaphor.
Second, other traditions, notably Hinduism and Buddhism, have an analogy in the notion of rebirth. Rebirth and Purgatory are both about ongoing soul work and manage to overcome the binary heaven-or-hell-for-eternity-after-this-brief-life problem that Protestants are stuck with. Of course, the ideas (purgatory and rebirth) are different, but their function is the same: ongoing soul work. I find that fascinating. (BTW, in the same way, the Catholic saints function like the jillions of local "gods" in Hinduism: as interest and location-specific experience mediators of the divine. Luther was so austere and sin obsessed that he drained some really cool humane stuff out of the tradition).
The Catholics thought about this, one of the best things they do, and came up with an imaginative and humane solution in the form of...Purgatory. Bravo. I'd like to read the theology. I take none of this literally, but instead see it as a way to frame life. And I prefer the Catholic, Hindu, Buddhist lens on this issue. I prefer detachment and awakening to purgation, but whatever.
Rather than literally believe it, you may choose to "affirm" doctrines like this, that is, consider them a core dimension of the story and identity of your faith, including the Catholic inclination to actually think about this stuff in an ongoing and extra-biblical way. In this way you stand in the catholic tradition, and remain a catholic, but you don't have to sound like a nut case and believe magic stuff. And if your fundy bible friends give you a hard time about purgatory, tell them they can go to hell.
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WinePusher
Post #5
Good point, I don't accept sola scriptura but I do whole heartedly accept the Bible as the primary source of truth, as does the Catholic Church.Slopeshoulder wrote:No, there is no scriptural basis that I know of. But so what? Catholics don't make an ossified idol of scripture, never have.
Hmm, but Catholics are then condemned for not basing their beliefs in scripture. The trouble I have with purgatory is that if Jesus Christ died and paid the price for my sins (which I think you believe?) then why is purgatory neccesary.Slopeshoulder wrote:The Catholics thought about this, one of the best things they do, and came up with an imaginative and humane solution in the form of...Purgatory. Bravo. I'd like to read the theology. I take none of this literally, but instead see it as a way to frame life. And I prefer the Catholic, Hindu, Buddhist lens on this issue. I prefer detachment and awakening to purgation, but whatever.
Lol, I'm sure that if my fundy friends had to choose between hell and purgatory they'd choose purgatory.Slopeshoulder wrote:Rather than literally believe it, you may choose to "affirm" doctrines like this, that is, consider them a core dimension of the story and identity of your faith, including the Catholic inclination to actually think about this stuff in an ongoing and extra-biblical way. In this way you stand in the catholic tradition, and remain a catholic, but you don't have to sound like a nut case and believe magic stuff. And if your fundy bible friends give you a hard time about purgatory, tell them they can go to hell.
Post #6
Jesus taught a similar concept about people on earth needing to be born again. (John 3:3-7, 1 Pet 1:23 )Slopeshoulder wrote:
Second, other traditions, notably Hinduism and Buddhism, have an analogy in the notion of rebirth. Rebirth and Purgatory are both about ongoing soul work and manage to overcome the binary heaven-or-hell-for-eternity-after-this-brief-life problem that Protestants are stuck with. Of course, the ideas (purgatory and rebirth) are different, but their function is the same: ongoing soul work.
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Joshua Patrick
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Post #7
The concept of an after-death purification from sin and the consequences of sin is also stated in the New Testament in passages such as 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 and Matthew 5:25–26, 12:31–32.
The doctrine of purgatory, or the final purification, has been part of the true faith since before the time of Christ. The Jews already believed it before the coming of the Messiah, as revealed in the Old Testament (2 Macc. 12:41–45) as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works, such as one which records that Adam will be in mourning "until the day of dispensing punishment in the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy" (The Life of Adam and Eve 46–7). Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.
Jews, Catholics, and the Eastern Orthodox have always historically proclaimed the reality of the final purification. It was not until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century that anyone denied this doctrine. As the quotes below from the early Church Fathers show, purgatory has been part of the Christian faith from the very beginning.
Some imagine that the Catholic Church has an elaborate doctrine of purgatory worked out, but there are only three essential components of the doctrine: (1) that a purification after death exists, (2) that it involves some kind of pain, and (3) that the purification can be assisted by the prayers and offerings by the living to God. Other ideas, such that purgatory is a particular "place" in the afterlife or that it takes time to accomplish, are speculations rather than doctrines.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
"And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again received her [Thecla]. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: ‘Mother, you shall have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the righteous’" (Acts of Paul and Thecla [A.D. 160]).
Abercius
"The citizen of a prominent city, I erected this while I lived, that I might have a resting place for my body. Abercius is my name, a disciple of the chaste Shepherd who feeds his sheep on the mountains and in the fields, who has great eyes surveying everywhere, who taught me the faithful writings of life. Standing by, I, Abercius, ordered this to be inscribed: Truly, I was in my seventy-second year. May everyone who is in accord with this and who understands it pray for Abercius" (Epitaph of Abercius [A.D. 190]).
The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity
"[T]hat very night, this was shown to me in a vision: I [Perpetua] saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid color, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age, who died miserably with disease. . . . For him I had made my prayer, and between him and me there was a large interval, so that neither of us could approach to the other . . . and knew that my brother was in suffering. But I trusted that my prayer would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then . . . I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me. Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me: I saw that the place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright; and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. . . . [And] he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment" (The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity 2:3–4 [A.D. 202]).
Tertullian
"We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death—birth into eternal life]" (The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]).
"A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice" (Monogamy 10:1–2 [A.D. 216]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"The strength of the truly believing remains unshaken; and with those who fear and love God with their whole heart, their integrity continues steady and strong. For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace [i.e., reconciliation] is given. Yet virginity is not therefore deficient in the Church, nor does the glorious design of continence languish through the sins of others. The Church, crowned with so many virgins, flourishes; and chastity and modesty preserve the tenor of their glory. Nor is the vigor of continence broken down because repentance and pardon are facilitated to the adulterer. It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord" (Letters 51[55]:20 [A.D. 253]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
"Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out" (Catechetical Lectures 23:5:9 [A.D. 350]).
Gregory of Nyssa
"If a man distinguish in himself what is peculiarly human from that which is irrational, and if he be on the watch for a life of greater urbanity for himself, in this present life he will purify himself of any evil contracted, overcoming the irrational by reason. If he has inclined to the irrational pressure of the passions, using for the passions the cooperating hide of things irrational, he may afterward in a quite different manner be very much interested in what is better, when, after his departure out of the body, he gains knowledge of the difference between virtue and vice and finds that he is not able to partake of divinity until he has been purged of the filthy contagion in his soul by the purifying fire" (Sermon on the Dead [A.D. 382]).
John Chrysostom
"Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them" (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).
"Weep for those who die in their wealth and who with all their wealth prepared no consolation for their own souls, who had the power to wash away their sins and did not will to do it. Let us weep for them, let us assist them to the extent of our ability, let us think of some assistance for them, small as it may be, yet let us somehow assist them. But how, and in what way? By praying for them and by entreating others to pray for them, by constantly giving alms to the poor on their behalf. Not in vain was it decreed by the apostles that in the awesome mysteries remembrance should be made of the departed. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. When the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome sacrificial Victim is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have departed in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf" (Homilies on Philippians 3:9–10 [A.D. 402]).
Augustine
"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended" (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).
"But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death" (ibid., 172:2).
"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment" (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).
"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).
"The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death" (ibid., 29:109).
The doctrine of purgatory, or the final purification, has been part of the true faith since before the time of Christ. The Jews already believed it before the coming of the Messiah, as revealed in the Old Testament (2 Macc. 12:41–45) as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works, such as one which records that Adam will be in mourning "until the day of dispensing punishment in the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy" (The Life of Adam and Eve 46–7). Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.
Jews, Catholics, and the Eastern Orthodox have always historically proclaimed the reality of the final purification. It was not until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century that anyone denied this doctrine. As the quotes below from the early Church Fathers show, purgatory has been part of the Christian faith from the very beginning.
Some imagine that the Catholic Church has an elaborate doctrine of purgatory worked out, but there are only three essential components of the doctrine: (1) that a purification after death exists, (2) that it involves some kind of pain, and (3) that the purification can be assisted by the prayers and offerings by the living to God. Other ideas, such that purgatory is a particular "place" in the afterlife or that it takes time to accomplish, are speculations rather than doctrines.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
"And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again received her [Thecla]. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: ‘Mother, you shall have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the righteous’" (Acts of Paul and Thecla [A.D. 160]).
Abercius
"The citizen of a prominent city, I erected this while I lived, that I might have a resting place for my body. Abercius is my name, a disciple of the chaste Shepherd who feeds his sheep on the mountains and in the fields, who has great eyes surveying everywhere, who taught me the faithful writings of life. Standing by, I, Abercius, ordered this to be inscribed: Truly, I was in my seventy-second year. May everyone who is in accord with this and who understands it pray for Abercius" (Epitaph of Abercius [A.D. 190]).
The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity
"[T]hat very night, this was shown to me in a vision: I [Perpetua] saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid color, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age, who died miserably with disease. . . . For him I had made my prayer, and between him and me there was a large interval, so that neither of us could approach to the other . . . and knew that my brother was in suffering. But I trusted that my prayer would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then . . . I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me. Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me: I saw that the place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright; and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. . . . [And] he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment" (The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity 2:3–4 [A.D. 202]).
Tertullian
"We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death—birth into eternal life]" (The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]).
"A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice" (Monogamy 10:1–2 [A.D. 216]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"The strength of the truly believing remains unshaken; and with those who fear and love God with their whole heart, their integrity continues steady and strong. For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace [i.e., reconciliation] is given. Yet virginity is not therefore deficient in the Church, nor does the glorious design of continence languish through the sins of others. The Church, crowned with so many virgins, flourishes; and chastity and modesty preserve the tenor of their glory. Nor is the vigor of continence broken down because repentance and pardon are facilitated to the adulterer. It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord" (Letters 51[55]:20 [A.D. 253]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
"Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out" (Catechetical Lectures 23:5:9 [A.D. 350]).
Gregory of Nyssa
"If a man distinguish in himself what is peculiarly human from that which is irrational, and if he be on the watch for a life of greater urbanity for himself, in this present life he will purify himself of any evil contracted, overcoming the irrational by reason. If he has inclined to the irrational pressure of the passions, using for the passions the cooperating hide of things irrational, he may afterward in a quite different manner be very much interested in what is better, when, after his departure out of the body, he gains knowledge of the difference between virtue and vice and finds that he is not able to partake of divinity until he has been purged of the filthy contagion in his soul by the purifying fire" (Sermon on the Dead [A.D. 382]).
John Chrysostom
"Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them" (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).
"Weep for those who die in their wealth and who with all their wealth prepared no consolation for their own souls, who had the power to wash away their sins and did not will to do it. Let us weep for them, let us assist them to the extent of our ability, let us think of some assistance for them, small as it may be, yet let us somehow assist them. But how, and in what way? By praying for them and by entreating others to pray for them, by constantly giving alms to the poor on their behalf. Not in vain was it decreed by the apostles that in the awesome mysteries remembrance should be made of the departed. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. When the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome sacrificial Victim is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have departed in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf" (Homilies on Philippians 3:9–10 [A.D. 402]).
Augustine
"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended" (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).
"But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death" (ibid., 172:2).
"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment" (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).
"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).
"The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death" (ibid., 29:109).
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Joshua Patrick
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Joshua Patrick
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- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:42 pm
- Location: Ireland
Post #9
The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).Hmm, but Catholics are then condemned for not basing their beliefs in scripture. The trouble I have with purgatory is that if Jesus Christ died and paid the price for my sins (which I think you believe?) then why is purgatory neccesary.
The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.
Brother, Jesus died for our SINS, so PURGATORY is available for US. It is a state not to forgive our sins, but to purify the soul, before the gates of heaven are opened to us.
Btw, do you go to confession?
