In Islam, Allah is said to have taken his pen and begun to write. Each person's life has been scripted out in precise, exact detail before the world was created. Some Christians even have similar views of the God of the Bible (although I and many other Christians do not share that view).
Anyway, the question is, If God has scripted every detail of our lives before we were even born, can we still have free will?
I do not wish to debate whether we actually have free will, or whether free will is possible in our physical universe. The question at hand is simply whether free will--freedom of choice, freedom to do otherwise--makes any sense at all if our lives have been scripted by the Deity before we were born.
Does Divine foreknowledge negate free will?
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Re: Does Divine foreknowledge negate free will?
Post #31If it can be known ahead of time, there is no free will.[color=red]ChaosBorders[/color] wrote:If it has imposed neither condition nor restraint upon the actors, but merely knows ahead of time which of the possibilities those actors will ultimately choose, how has it violated their free will?
That a being knows makes no difference.
If there is true free will, the omniscient being cannot actually know what they will choose.[color=green]ChaosBorders[/color] wrote:The question is basically, if somehow there existed free will to begin with, how does adding an omniscient being into the mix negate that if the being never in any way interacts or interferes with that freedom?
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Re: Does Divine foreknowledge negate free will?
Post #32Why not? If there was free will in the first place, what possible logical connection is there between a being knowing ahead of time and the actions of the person? It's a supernatural being, knowledge doesn't automatically mean influence.AkiThePirate wrote:If it can be known ahead of time, there is no free will.[color=red]ChaosBorders[/color] wrote:If it has imposed neither condition nor restraint upon the actors, but merely knows ahead of time which of the possibilities those actors will ultimately choose, how has it violated their free will?
That a being knows makes no difference.If there is true free will, the omniscient being cannot actually know what they will choose.[color=green]ChaosBorders[/color] wrote:The question is basically, if somehow there existed free will to begin with, how does adding an omniscient being into the mix negate that if the being never in any way interacts or interferes with that freedom?
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Post #34
It's omniscient. It knows the possibilities, and it knows which one the person will pick. As long as it did not influence the possibilities or actions in any way, there is no reason to believe that if the person already had free will that adding an omniscient being negates that.AkiThePirate wrote:If there is free will, how can a being know?
And again, this is a very narrow exception given practically no one who believes in God also believes that God had no influence on the possibilities and actions. Also narrow because it assumes a reality in which the laws of physics somehow allow free will, which is contrary to our own. But under these specific and unrealistic conditions, there is no reason to assume a being cannot be omniscient without automatically negating free will.
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Post #36
If you were going with the assumption of their physical reality being like ours, most likely so. But we're going with the assumption that they (somehow) start out with free will. They can freely pick between options A and B and C. As it so happens, they will end up picking option B. Given that it was free, it may well have been made entirely arbitrarily. But it was made. No one observing it having happened from the present or future is likely to be accused of having negated their free choice.AkiThePirate wrote:Given that they know the possibility, is it not possible to conclude that there was only one possibility to begin with?
Due to the nature of an omniscient being, its observation just happens to be able to come before the actual event occurred. But as long as it had no influence upon the event in question in any way, there is no reason to assume that knowing ahead of time negated the person's freedom to pick between the three choices. The perspective from which it is viewing the event is entirely unrelated to what occurs during the event.
I do not think in our own physical reality, or using any meaningful concept of God, that this is or actually could be the case. But again, in this highly hypothetical and unrealistic circumstance, I think it is possible for an omniscient being to exist simultaneously with free will.
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Post #38
The OP postulated a reality that has a dimension of time, and per Post 5 also assumed free will before considering the effects of the omniscient being. In such a reality I do not think they necessarily contradict.AkiThePirate wrote:When postulating a reality different to ours, can you also posit time?
I'll agree that if you can assemble your own reality, omniscience and free will do not necessarily contradict.
Re: Does Divine foreknowledge negate free will?
Post #39God is the source of all future possibilites. By giving humans the choice of which options they will choose for themselves (out of an almost innumerable set of options) God makes free will possible.ChaosBorders wrote:...by both knowing and purposefully limiting the specific possibilities to what they are, God is violating the free will of the actors...
God is a free agent, and God interacts with us as free agents. This is what makes genuine love possible.ChaosBorders wrote:...I also don't think if you're going from a Biblical perspective God has in any way had a non-interference policy.