Some questions for Muslims:
What does the Qur'an teach about killing those who convert from Islam to another faith?
What do the Islamic haddiths depict Mohammad as teaching about the execution of those who convert from Islam to another faith?
What does Islamic Sharia law say about killing those who convert from Islam to another faith?
How does all of this relate to the Qur'anic insistance that there should be "no compulsion" in religion?
Islam and its apostates: kill all, or kill only some?
Moderator: Moderators
Post #91
Hello Murad,
You say I took quotes out of context, and then corrected my verse with a completely different verse?
I quoted 9:5, you quoted 2:190.
Is it not true that
The Quran is not put together in chronological order.
The Quran does not contradict itself, it simply abrogates the early writings that contradict the newer ones, making the later books as truth and the older books as null and void.
After all a "perfect" book would not contradict right.
You say I took quotes out of context, and then corrected my verse with a completely different verse?
I quoted 9:5, you quoted 2:190.
Is it not true that
The Quran is not put together in chronological order.
The Quran does not contradict itself, it simply abrogates the early writings that contradict the newer ones, making the later books as truth and the older books as null and void.
After all a "perfect" book would not contradict right.
Post #92
This was reported as uncivil. If the reporter wishes to PM me his/her reasoning, I will look further into it.. For the time being, I am simply clearing the reportWood-Man wrote:So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
Post #93
Sources: Ibn Ishaq, pp. 463-64; Tabari vol. 8, p. 34.Confused wrote:This was reported as uncivil. If the reporter wishes to PM me his/her reasoning, I will look further into it.. For the time being, I am simply clearing the reportWood-Man wrote:So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?
(5) The sentence: Death by decapitation for around 300-600 men and pubescent boys, and enslavement for the women and children. Ibn Ishaq says that the number may have been as high as 800-900 (p. 464).
And this was only ONE well known and documented mass murder.
Post #94
So you are challenging his source? Okay then, that requires a different intervention. If that is the case, then please PM me to prevent derailing this thread.bobroonie wrote:Sources: Ibn Ishaq, pp. 463-64; Tabari vol. 8, p. 34.Confused wrote:This was reported as uncivil. If the reporter wishes to PM me his/her reasoning, I will look further into it.. For the time being, I am simply clearing the reportWood-Man wrote:So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?
(5) The sentence: Death by decapitation for around 300-600 men and pubescent boys, and enslavement for the women and children. Ibn Ishaq says that the number may have been as high as 800-900 (p. 464).
And this was only ONE well known and documented mass murder.
That being said, the mere mentioning of a historical reference may seem violent or or tasteless, however, that doesn't make it any less of a historical reference, so I will stand my ground on the uncivil tone.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
Post #95
Hello bobroonie & Confused
Confused; Wood-Man hasn't said anything offensive; its all good.
Nethertheless 9:5 itself doesn't set the whole context, if you read 9:6 that would establish the context.
Confused; Wood-Man hasn't said anything offensive; its all good.
Yes you are totally right, i copied and pasted the wrong verse.bobroonie wrote: You say I took quotes out of context, and then corrected my verse with a completely different verse?
Nethertheless 9:5 itself doesn't set the whole context, if you read 9:6 that would establish the context.
I want to ask you an honest question; how many War Generals or Leaders do you know that not only free their prisoners, but also escort them to a secure area?Quran:
9:5-6 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
It has everything to do with the timeline of the Prophets life; as he gained more influence, he also gained more enemies; and thus he receieved more revalations regarding military warfare in the Medinan sura's.bobroonie wrote: The Quran does not contradict itself, it simply abrogates the early writings that contradict the newer ones, making the later books as truth and the older books as null and void.
After all a "perfect" book would not contradict right.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
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We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
Post #96
"I want to ask you an honest question; how many War Generals or Leaders do you know that not only free their prisoners, but also escort them to a secure area?"
It's relative to the location, time period and general, Muhammad was no different. He was a warlord that did what he had to do to take power. He was peaceful when it suited him, and he was violent when it suited him.
It's relative to the location, time period and general, Muhammad was no different. He was a warlord that did what he had to do to take power. He was peaceful when it suited him, and he was violent when it suited him.
Post #97
That is another myth promoted by anti-islamic websites.bobroonie wrote: He was peaceful when it suited him, and he was violent when it suited him.
Think about it this way, is it logical for someone when he is weak and powerless to war? For example if you read about his history you will actually see he fled from his enemies and thus migrated out of his city.
Once he attained disciples that believed in his miracles, he slowly gained power and thus was able to hold his ground, and hence he had the ability to enter war.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
Post #98
Woland wrote:You have not answered Wood-Man's question. Did Muhammad mass behead prisoners of war after one or many battles, or not?
Murad wrote:Yes the men were beheaded.
Woland wrote:Do you believe that all the men with pubic hair in the tribe deserved to be killed, and all the women and children turned into slaves?
Murad wrote:They comitted treason; under the law; treason has the death sentence.
Quran: wrote: 9:5-6 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
Do you think the Pagans knew they needed to ask thee for asylum before hundreds of their friends and family were beheaded?Murad wrote:I want to ask you an honest question; how many War Generals or Leaders do you know that not only free their prisoners, but also escort them to a secure area?
Post #99
Perhaps the opening, "So Murad, ..." seemed impolite. My apologies if so. I find it sometimes gets tedious to go through the process of quoting a prior post and thought it would be easier to just direct my question to the person, since the question is self-explanatory. I can see, however, how this personalizes the interaction a bit more than the typical unaddressed form. In debates in the U.S. Senate, they never address another debater directly, but only in the third person, such as "The honorable Senator from Louisiana has not explained why he claims xyz." The fact that someone perceived my post as uncivil is enough for me to avoid directly addressing posts in the future.Confused wrote:This was reported as uncivil. If the reporter wishes to PM me his/her reasoning, I will look further into it.. For the time being, I am simply clearing the reportWood-Man wrote:So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?
Post #100
Don't let it get to you. Some people are thin-skinned when it comes to questioning their beliefs but the moderating team here has proven to fair......as shown above in this particular case. Your comment was not even borderline uncivil.Wood-Man wrote:Perhaps the opening, "So Murad, ..." seemed impolite. My apologies if so. I find it sometimes gets tedious to go through the process of quoting a prior post and thought it would be easier to just direct my question to the person, since the question is self-explanatory. I can see, however, how this personalizes the interaction a bit more than the typical unaddressed form. In debates in the U.S. Senate, they never address another debater directly, but only in the third person, such as "The honorable Senator from Louisiana has not explained why he claims xyz." The fact that someone perceived my post as uncivil is enough for me to avoid directly addressing posts in the future.Confused wrote:This was reported as uncivil. If the reporter wishes to PM me his/her reasoning, I will look further into it.. For the time being, I am simply clearing the reportWood-Man wrote:So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?
