Who was made first?

[Chem]

The following post is a little faceious on my part. I know that in the bible that Adam was the first human to be "created". However, there does seem to be a problem with the anatomy of man. Why do we have nipples? This would seem to suggest that woman was first. Any Comments.

[Scottey]

First off, I believe that everything that the bible says is Absolute truth.

Maybe God just wanted guys to have nipples? Maybe it was his creative design. Maybe he did this for a sexual purpose. (Have you ever thought about that? Why God made sex so pleasurable.) I guess I don't understand where the problem is here.

God Bless,
Scottey J

[The Happy Humanist]

The following post is a little faceious on my part. I know that in the bible that Adam was the first human to be "created". However, there does seem to be a problem with the anatomy of man. Why do we have nipples? This would seem to suggest that woman was first. Any Comments.

The answer is that they aren't nipples. They actually belong to the phone company and are reserved for future use.

[LillSnopp]

The reason men have nipples is because we are all (from the start) 100% X chromosomes.

X chromosomes equals Woman.
Y chromosomes equals men.


So from the start, All men where "suppose" to be woman, but took a different route (so to speak). And got a certain amount of Y chromosomes, and less X chromosomes. So our nipples are the beginning to breasts, but as we have no particular use for them, we did not get enought X chromosomes for them to evolve.


But ofcourse, to accept this Factual Objective Truth, you can not be a Creationist or similar (as this goes against there reality).


Oh, and Hi to All btw.

[LillSnopp]

The reason men have nipples is because we are all (from the start) 100% X chromosomes.

X chromosomes equals Woman.
Y chromosomes equals men.


So from the start, All men where "suppose" to be woman, but took a different route (so to speak). And got a certain amount of Y chromosomes, and less X chromosomes. So our nipples are the beginning to breasts, but as we have no particular use for them, we did not get enought X chromosomes for them to evolve.


But ofcourse, to accept this Factual Objective Truth, you can not be a Creationist or similar (as this goes against there reality).


Oh, and Hi to All btw.

[youngborean]

X chromosomes equals Woman.
Y chromosomes equals men.


So from the start, All men where "suppose" to be woman, but took a different route (so to speak). And got a certain amount of Y chromosomes, and less X chromosomes. So our nipples are the beginning to breasts, but as we have no particular use for them, we did not get enought X chromosomes for them to evolve.


But ofcourse, to accept this Factual Objective Truth, you can not be a Creationist or similar (as this goes against there reality).


Oh, and Hi to All btw.

Where did the Y Chromosome come from? Your factual objective truth you seems to gloss over this fact. There are several different intrepetations that can be derived from the bible. One possibility is that the first human had all of the genetic parts (like a hermaphrodite) and split to form man in woman. Saying man just got a "certain amount" does little as a working model and is not Factual or Objective. It is a proposed mechanism that could just be a myth, just like creationism.

[LillSnopp]

Where did the Y Chromosome come from? Your factual objective truth you seems to gloss over this fact.

In what way? We are not talking about the origin of the human anatomy. Hence, this would stray from topic.

There are several different intrepetations that can be derived from the bible. One possibility is that the first human had all of the genetic parts (like a hermaphrodite) and split to form man in woman. Saying man just got a "certain amount" does little as a working model and is not Factual or Objective. It is a proposed mechanism that could just be a myth, just like creationism.

Ehm, No, this is a scientific fact, whatever you like it or not, im sorry. Like Tellus is orbiting the Sun, and so forth. Very easy science really.

[Jose]

Oddly, I know something about this, so I'll blab away a bit.

In early embryogenesis, males and females are identical. Only after their gonads form (ovaries or testes) and release hormones, do the secondary sex characteristics develop into male or female patterns. Basically, testosterone determines maleness; its absence determines femaleness. For the genitalia, the same initial tissues are used to make male or female parts. Usually, this works OK, but more and more frequently these days, babies are often born with intermediate forms of these parts, as a result of developmental problems, or more likely, interference by chemicals that act as "endocrine disruptors" and masculinize female embryos, or feminize male embryos.

The nipples are part of this generic body plan. They don't do much in anyone until puberty. Women produce more estrogen, and the nipples develop into functional breasts. If men take estrogen supplements, they develop breasts, too. [This happened to a friend of mine, who eventually learned that his daily medication was pressed in the same pill factory that made birth control pills--and he was getting a wee bit of estrogen as carry-over!] It is not uncommon for people who are born with female brain-wiring, but male (or male-ish) genital anatomy, to switch sexes when they figure out who they really are, and take estrogen to build breasts.

The brain isn't as well understood, except that it is clear that male and female "wiring" is different. It is undoubtedly under control of the same basic system--the X vs Y chromosome makeup, and hormonal fine-tuning. Chemical or genetic interference with this system produces brain wiring that is intermediate between male and female--hence gays and lesbians, and the estrogen industry's relatively small market of breast building.

This is basically the way it works in other mammals, too. Two X chromosomes and you're female. One X and one Y, and the SRY gene on the Y makes your gonads become testes, which secrete testosterone, and you're male.

So, it seems that God gave men nipples to make sex changes easier. Either that, or the construction of a basic mammalian body requires so much similarity between the sexes that, evolutionarily, the way to differentiate them was to change the hormones to amplify or shrink different generic tissues.

Where did the Y Chromosome come from? Your factual objective truth you seems to gloss over this fact.

Ooooh--good question. I was just reading about this yesterday. Now that we have DNA sequence information from both the human X and the human Y, we can tell definitively that the Y is derived from the X. This is the same pattern we see in a number of plant species that are just developing an X/Y-based sex determination system for male and female plants. The genes that determine morphological characteristics (flower parts, for the plants; other parts for us) are either on, or controlled by genes that are on, the X chromosome. First, one version of the X becomes different due to mutation (we'll call it a proto-Y), and associated with (required for) determination of maleness. Eventually, as inversions occur due to Xrays or cosmic rays or whatever, the X and proto-Y become unable to recombine, and therefore unable to share genetic information. Thereafter, the sequences on the X and Y diverge (because they can't be repaired by recombination).

An interesting finding seems to be that many genes for intelligence are on the X. The idea is that women preferred smarter men (better at making stone tools, or fire, perhaps?), and therefore selected for those versions of the X chromosome (only one of which is in men, since the other is a Y) that produced smarter men. This, of course, also produced smarter women (who have two X's, and should therefore be, and probably are, smarter than men). In any event, this kind of "sexual selection," or selection by mate choice, seems to have played a significant role in our developing intelligence rapidly--and was probably even more rapid because critical genes are on the X chromosome.

[ST88]

The following post is a little faceious on my part. I know that in the bible that Adam was the first human to be "created". However, there does seem to be a problem with the anatomy of man. Why do we have nipples? This would seem to suggest that woman was first. Any Comments.

The development of the fetus in the womb has a default setting of female. Before 9 weeks, males and females develop in the same way. It requires the presence of a Y Chromosome for a fetus to start developing male characteristics. There are some other weird chromosomal abnormalities that would allow an XX individual to be male, but the presence of the Y chromosome is a the primary factor.

Evolution has determined that this is way things like this happen. It must be very important in an evolutionary sense for a fetus to have developed these structures this early on (before gender identification). It should be noted that males have very underdeveloped mammary glands that produce milk under certain conditions (excessive stimulation, excessive hormone influence, etc.) Males can even develop female-type breasts in a condition called gynecomastia.

Some male animals also have nipples, so this is not an exclusively human trait. These evolutionary decisions were possibly made long before us.

ed to add: once again, Jose beats me to the punch. What he said.

[The Happy Humanist]

once again, Jose beats me to the punch. What he said.

No, you're both wrong. It's what I said. They're for Call Forwarding and Call Waiting.

So there.