Ancient stone tablet may prove resurrection predated Jesus

[Clownboat]

http://www.thetechherald.com/article.ph ... sus-Christ

The three-foot-high mysterious stone tablet, which has been written on rather than carved, is known as the Angel Gabriel’s Vision of Revelation.
Israel Knohl, biblical studies professor at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, has concluded the key line 80 of the text as Gabriel telling a historic Jewish rebel named Simon, who was killed by the Romans in 4 BC: "In three days you shall live, I Gabriel, command you."
"This sheds new light on the messianic activity of Jesus," Knohl said to Reuters news agency. "It proves that the concept of the messiah was already there before Jesus,"

Then you have the Epic of Gilgamesh that has similar aspects to the flood story.
The Garden of Eden story is also similar to an earlier myth.

Question for debate: What does this suggest about he Bible being God inspired if in actuality the stories themselves are not original?

[LiamOS]

We have spiritual means to know this.

Whoah, whoah...

Welcome to the Science and Religion subforum.
I will now challenge you to show:
-A spiritual reality exists.
-It is possible to use this to gain objective knowledge of real world events.
-You know how.

[bernee51]

But Jesus was a real person...

And you know this how?

...and the mythology that was built around him does not detract from the spiritual value of his teaching...

Which parts of the 'Jesus Story" as it has come to us is myth and which is not?

What 'spiritual value'? Please define 'spiritual'.

[mgb]

We have spiritual means to know this.

Whoah, whoah...

Welcome to the Science and Religion subforum.
I will now challenge you to show:
-A spiritual reality exists.
-It is possible to use this to gain objective knowledge of real world events.
-You know how.

Outside mathematics it is not possible to prove anything. It is not possible to prove that I wrote this message. We are concerned with consciousness and how to interpret it. My experience tells me that spiritual reality exists. No matter what I say by way of proving this you can come up with counter arguments and I can come up with counter counter arguments...and so it goes.

It is really a matter of discussing things and seeing where the discussion leads not proving things because nothing is provable.

[mgb]

But Jesus was a real person...

And you know this how?

...and the mythology that was built around him does not detract from the spiritual value of his teaching...

Which parts of the 'Jesus Story" as it has come to us is myth and which is not?

What 'spiritual value'? Please define 'spiritual'.

The evidence for Jesus' existence is overwhelming in terms of biblical study.
It matters little at this late stage in history what is myth about Jesus and what is not. The essential messages religion teaches have been said many many times.

'Spiritual' is what concerns the person and consciousness.

[LiamOS]

Outside mathematics it is not possible to prove anything. It is not possible to prove that I wrote this message.

Of course, I only mean prove to an acceptable degree.

My experience tells me that spiritual reality exists.

My experience doesn't.
I wonder who's correct?

No matter what I say by way of proving this you can come up with counter arguments and I can come up with counter counter arguments...and so it goes.

Well, we could always do the tango for the sake of doing the tango...

It is really a matter of discussing things and seeing where the discussion leads not proving things because nothing is provable.

When I say prove, I mean show evidence in favour of to the point where assuming otherwise is untenable.
If a spiritual reality exists, it stands to reason that it can be at least inferred to an acceptable degree.

As per rule five, I'd ask you to at least attempt to defend your assertions or qualify them as objectively unfounded opinion.

The evidence for Jesus' existence is overwhelming in terms of biblical study.

The Bible says Jesus existed? Wow.
However, outside evidence of Jesus' existence is incredibly underwhelming, given his claimed powers.

[SailingCyclops]

Outside mathematics it is not possible to prove anything.

This is not true. I can have you look into the sky and prove that the sun, moon, and stars exist by simple observation.

We are concerned with consciousness and how to interpret it.

Are you equating consciousness with what you claim to be spirit? What is your definition of spiritual?

My experience tells me that spiritual reality exists.

What "experience"? How is that experience proof that it is due to something spiritual?

Bob

[mgb]

The evidence for Jesus' existence is overwhelming in terms of biblical study.

The Bible says Jesus existed? Wow.
However, outside evidence of Jesus' existence is incredibly underwhelming, given his claimed powers.

What I mean is that deep 'forensic' bible study in the spirit of the 'Higher Criticism' provides great evidence of Jesus existence. Bible study and analysis is a vast subject. I am not talking about reading the bible and taking it at face value.

I will answer the rest of your questions in a day or so...

[SailingCyclops]

What I mean is that deep 'forensic' bible study ..... I am not talking about reading the bible and taking it at face value.

If forensic bible study does not include taking the bible at face value, it's useless! How can you possibly use defective "evidence" to forensically deduce any truth? It's an absurd notion on it's face.

Bob

[bernee51]

The evidence for Jesus' existence is overwhelming in terms of biblical study.

I don't doubt the bible holds that Jesus existed. By that standard, do you accept that the Bhagavad Gita is evidence for the existence of Krishna?

It matters little at this late stage in history what is myth about Jesus and what is not.

"At hsi late stage..."...when did it matter and when did it stop mattering?

The essential messages religion teaches have been said many many times.

And...?

'Spiritual' is what concerns the person and consciousness.

I have no idea what this means...care to elaborate?

What exactly do you mean by 'spiritual'?

[mgb]

As per rule five, I'd ask you to at least attempt to defend your assertions or qualify them as objectively unfounded opinion.

The philosopher Bertrand Russell said that
he did not believe in God because of a lack
of evidence. I think he is wrong to put it in
these terms. Spirituality cannot be put into
narrow academic definitions of 'true' and 'false'.
Spirituality exists on a higher level of consciousness
and cannot be simplistically encapsulated in human
intellectual notions about 'truth'.

For a theist the 'evidence' is ubiquituous. For
an atheist there is no evidence. Rather than
centering things on evidence it is better to
understand faith in terms of one's world view
and to ask if faith is a cogent and consistent
world view and whether it makes sense of our
conscious experience. So debates about evidence
are difficult to sustain because the very arguments
they stimulate are concerned with what constitutes
evidence in the first place.

But I understand your questions. You are asking for
evidence of spiritual reality. In my opinion
there is no other reality; reality is ultimately
spiritual - in the same way that, for example, there
is no material reality because there is no material
substance per se. Matter is energy and what is material
is only geometry. When energy condenses into matter
it assumes a certain geometry. This geometry is what
we call matter. From a scientific point of view only
energy exists. Equally, from a human point of view,
only spirit exists and everything human is simply
a context in which spiritual reality is made manifest.

In other words what we call psychological, political,
aesthetic, personal, just, social etc. are only
spiritual reality in a human context. Human
life is not real or ultimate. Spiritual life is.
If you have studied Plato's doctrine of Forms you
will see what I mean. 'Here below' is a world of
metaphor and image. For example we have a 'beautiful
statue' on an earthly level. On a spiritual level
beauty is beauty itself without need of physical images.

Now with regard to evidence. All I can say to people
is that they look at the world and ask themselves
if the world appears to be the way Buddhists,
Neoplatonists, Christians etc say it is. This is no
small request because there is a great fog in the modern
mind but it is the only way we can decide what truth is.
We must look and see with our own eyes.

I know this post does not address all your questions but they are very general and this post is just to show you where my thinking is at...