Same sex marriage is not a church issue.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

[Darias]

I agree with you but this is a statement and not a question. It should be moved to the "Random Ramblings" section.

And to add to what you said, I feel that there should just be "marriage," in which gays, like the rest of us, are allowed to participate in and enjoy the legal benefits thereof. Civil Unions, for me, amount to "Separate but Equal" garbage; not to mention civil unions aren't federally recognized and they don't give nearly as many rights as marriage does. Gay marriage, just like the Civil Rights movement, should not be a state's rights issue. It was state's rights that allowed slavery and segregation laws.

Even if people think gays are immoral or "mentally confused" or "genetically flawed" - it doesn't matter. Granting gays the right to marry does not take away anyone else's rights. The only thing it will do is offend people.

But I don't really care about offending the "sentiments" of bigotry. It was offensive to people when we allowed African American and women to serve in the military. It is offensive for many that gays are even allowed to serve in the military at all(even though they must do so in secret).

It all boils down to the constitution. Everyone must have the same equal rights. There shouldn't be separate laws for separate groups.

To think that Christians condemn monogamous marriages because "they're gay" -- it's sad. What do they expect homosexuals to do? Do you think Christians would rather it be that homosexuals have multiple partners over the years instead of a family?

Even though Christians generally advocate marriage and refraining from sex-before marriage -- I doubt they would want gays to be able to live by those Christian values.

Why?

Because seeing homosexuals in stable marriages, raising children in stable homes would completely annihilate their world view that gays and lesbians are immoral, lustful, sinners who "spit in the face of God."

God's "way" or not, homosexuality is a fact of life. It is not some birth defect or sudden choice -- as if you can with a flip of a switch determine who you are attracted to. Homosexuality is not genetic destiny either.

What is true is that relationships are more or less a choice -- a choice of commitment.

Who are we to say "No, you can't get married and have a family because you disgust us."



I just wish America would wake up. Unfortunately if the Republicans win the midterms or even the next election, not only will we not have gay marriage -- but we probably won't have any hopes of seeing the repeal of DADT come into fruition.

Sometimes I wonder if I will ever see the legalization of gay rights in my lifetime.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I agree with you but this is a statement and not a question. It should be moved to the "Random Ramblings" section.

And to add to what you said, I feel that there should just be "marriage," in which gays, like the rest of us, are allowed to participate in and enjoy the legal benefits thereof. Civil Unions, for me, amount to "Separate but Equal" garbage; not to mention civil unions aren't federally recognized and they don't give nearly as many rights as marriage does. Gay marriage, just like the Civil Rights movement, should not be a state's rights issue. It was state's rights that allowed slavery and segregation laws.

Even if people think gays are immoral or "mentally confused" or "genetically flawed" - it doesn't matter. Granting gays the right to marry does not take away anyone else's rights. The only thing it will do is offend people.

But I don't really care about offending the "sentiments" of bigotry. It was offensive to people when we allowed African American and women to serve in the military. It is offensive for many that gays are even allowed to serve in the military at all(even though they must do so in secret).

It all boils down to the constitution. Everyone must have the same equal rights. There shouldn't be separate laws for separate groups.

To think that Christians condemn monogamous marriages because "they're gay" -- it's sad. What do they expect homosexuals to do? Do you think Christians would rather it be that homosexuals have multiple partners over the years instead of a family?

Even though Christians generally advocate marriage and refraining from sex-before marriage -- I doubt they would want gays to be able to live by those Christian values.

Why?

Because seeing homosexuals in stable marriages, raising children in stable homes would completely annihilate their world view that gays and lesbians are immoral, lustful, sinners who "spit in the face of God."

God's "way" or not, homosexuality is a fact of life. It is not some birth defect or sudden choice -- as if you can with a flip of a switch determine who you are attracted to. Homosexuality is not genetic destiny either.

What is true is that relationships are more or less a choice -- a choice of commitment.

Who are we to say "No, you can't get married and have a family because you disgust us."



I just wish America would wake up. Unfortunately if the Republicans win the midterms or even the next election, not only will we not have gay marriage -- but we probably won't have any hopes of seeing the repeal of DADT come into fruition.

Sometimes I wonder if I will ever see the legalization of gay rights in my lifetime.

Very well said! One correction I would like to point out - there are Christian churches and Christians throughout the world who embrace same sex marriages for Christians and non-Christians alike. Actually, Scripture when taken in context of all of scripture is completely silent on the issue. Jesus did not address any issues relating to sexual orientation. When you take the writings on the Apostle Paul in context of the gospel, and the doctrine that all are unrighteous, and in Christ, there is no male or female distinction,... I think many Christians will be surprised in regards to the Bible. The church used to discriminate against blacks, women, and the divorced too. America needs to wake-up from the dangers of the the right wing Repbublican agenda, God is not a Republican, nor is He a Democrat.

[Lux]

Moderator Comment

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Hi CiC, welcome to the forum! Our rules require that all topics started on the debate subforums have at least one question for debate. Please state one or more questions for debate about this subject.

For posts that are not intended for debating, feel free to use the Discussion subforums.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Do you seem to agree or disagree, and why?

.

[Kuan]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

That's a pretty tough statement to support: "Same sex marriage is immoral because it is against God's will". If it is againts God's will, then why are there same sex marriages found in the United States and throughout the world? Does the Mormon faith believe that God is unable to accomplish His will? Or do you believe the will of man is greater than the will of God? In one sense, you are saying that same sex marriages is against God's will; yet on the other sense, you are saying the churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. It is propaganda put out like organizations such as Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church to believe the law will force to conduct same sex marriages against their will. Why would a gay couple want to be married in a church who is against same sex marriages anyways? There are Christian churches who believe in same sex marriages.

I encourage you to watch the DVD called "8 The Mormon Proposition" and the Mormon Churches effort to mix Mormon religion with California's Prop 8.

[Kuan]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

That's a pretty tough statement to support: "Same sex marriage is immoral because it is against God's will". If it is againts God's will, then why are there same sex marriages found in the United States and throughout the world? Does the Mormon faith believe that God is unable to accomplish His will? Or do you believe the will of man is greater than the will of God? In one sense, you are saying that same sex marriages is against God's will; yet on the other sense, you are saying the churches should decide for themselves wheter they will marry gays or not. It is propaganda put out like organizations such as Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church to believe the law will force to conduct same sex marriages against their will. Why would a gay couple want to be married in a church who is against same sex marriages anyways? There are Christian churches who believe in same sex marriages.

The point isnt that its against gods will. My point is that gays will probably sue some churches for being "discriminatory." I have no right to impse my belief of gay marriage on them and they have no right to force me to mary them. Good question, I dont think that gays will want to be married under a church who doesnt support them. But then again, they might see this as a "golden opportunity" to sue churches and make easy money.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

That's a pretty tough statement to support: "Same sex marriage is immoral because it is against God's will". If it is againts God's will, then why are there same sex marriages found in the United States and throughout the world? Does the Mormon faith believe that God is unable to accomplish His will? Or do you believe the will of man is greater than the will of God? In one sense, you are saying that same sex marriages is against God's will; yet on the other sense, you are saying the churches should decide for themselves wheter they will marry gays or not. It is propaganda put out like organizations such as Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church to believe the law will force to conduct same sex marriages against their will. Why would a gay couple want to be married in a church who is against same sex marriages anyways? There are Christian churches who believe in same sex marriages.

The point isnt that its against gods will. My point is that gays will probably sue some churches for being "discriminatory." I have no right to impse my belief of gay marriage on them and they have no right to force me to mary them. Good question, I dont think that gays will want to be married under a church who doesnt support them. But then again, they might see this as a "golden opportunity" to sue churches and make easy money.

My Mormon friend, you have a biased tainted view through Mormon propoganda and presuppositions. Please watch the DVD "8 - The Mormon Proposition" and you will begin the see the other side of the issue. It will challenge your view and probably shake you up as a Mormon too. In my Evangeical Christian belief based on Scripture authority, the Mormon Church is wrong on many many central issues when examined through Scripture alone.

[Kuan]

The point isnt that its against gods will. My point is that gays will probably sue some churches for being "discriminatory." I have no right to impse my belief of gay marriage on them and they have no right to force me to mary them. Good question, I dont think that gays will want to be married under a church who doesnt support them. But then again, they might see this as a "golden opportunity" to sue churches and make easy money.

My Mormon friend, you have a biased tainted view through Mormon propoganda and presuppositions. Please watch the DVD "8 - The Mormon Proposition" and you will begin the see the other side of the issue. It will challenge your view and probably shake you up as a Mormon too. In my Evangeical Christian belief based on Scripture authority, the Mormon Church is wrong on many many central issues when examined through Scripture alone.

What does this post have to do with my reply?