Christian Unity
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Christian Unity
Post #1Should Christians unite in defense of the "Law" when it is abundantly clear that an Administration is flouting those laws?
Post #2
The Body of this debate was moved by moderators to random ramblings section titled..... "The Laws that be were ordained for Organised Crime?"
My argument is that a large enough group could assist those serving in positions of trust to behave with honour as in ...."Adherence to that which is right or a conventional standard of conduct"
That conventional standard of conduct being set out in Law
My argument is that a large enough group could assist those serving in positions of trust to behave with honour as in ...."Adherence to that which is right or a conventional standard of conduct"
That conventional standard of conduct being set out in Law
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Jester
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Post #3
Moderator Action
Moved to a more appropriate forum.
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Moderator actions indicate that a thread/post has been moved, merged, or split. Such actions are taken at the discretion of a moderator.
Moved to a more appropriate forum.
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Moderator actions indicate that a thread/post has been moved, merged, or split. Such actions are taken at the discretion of a moderator.
We must continually ask ourselves whether victory has become more central to our goals than truth.
Post #5
An interesting move Jester
Are you Jesting when you Presume that we should confuse Law with politics? -
"Politics" didn't get a mention in my version of the Holy Bible- I was quite surprised to see it on a Christian Website at all let alone finding my thread moved to it
I agree somewhat in that each can lead to a little judgmental instability but such laws as "Property Law" and the "Law of Contract" are pretty much Global and have influenced religious beliefs and behavior for quite a few Centuries... as I recall there was even a price put on Christ?...
I never considered that to be "Political" either...(The things people will do for money eh)...to some it is still more important than Christ
As to considering "Christian Unity" to be a political debate.... well um I guess we will disagree on that one for the reasons given- but it could just be that I am a New Zealander and although I am using New Zealand Law as a reference for the thread- I am aware that rather a lot of Internationals have purchased interests in properties laundered in this manner Internationally most assuredly including America - should Christians recognise Political boundaries to Brotherhood/Sisterhood?
I understood the moving of the original thread for the reason given (I didn't spell it out) but moving this debate seems a little much perhaps you wouldn't mind enlightening me on our cultural? differences in interpretations? Is it perhaps that I am new to this forum and need to learn a new doctrine?
Are you Jesting when you Presume that we should confuse Law with politics? -
"Politics" didn't get a mention in my version of the Holy Bible- I was quite surprised to see it on a Christian Website at all let alone finding my thread moved to it
I agree somewhat in that each can lead to a little judgmental instability but such laws as "Property Law" and the "Law of Contract" are pretty much Global and have influenced religious beliefs and behavior for quite a few Centuries... as I recall there was even a price put on Christ?...
I never considered that to be "Political" either...(The things people will do for money eh)...to some it is still more important than Christ
As to considering "Christian Unity" to be a political debate.... well um I guess we will disagree on that one for the reasons given- but it could just be that I am a New Zealander and although I am using New Zealand Law as a reference for the thread- I am aware that rather a lot of Internationals have purchased interests in properties laundered in this manner Internationally most assuredly including America - should Christians recognise Political boundaries to Brotherhood/Sisterhood?
I understood the moving of the original thread for the reason given (I didn't spell it out) but moving this debate seems a little much perhaps you wouldn't mind enlightening me on our cultural? differences in interpretations? Is it perhaps that I am new to this forum and need to learn a new doctrine?
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Jester
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Post #6
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We must continually ask ourselves whether victory has become more central to our goals than truth.
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Furrowed Brow
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Post #7
Politicians have to obey the law like the rest of us. For example, the Italian prime minister is presently facing trial for paying for sex with an underage girl. A couple of British members of parliament have recently received sentences for fiddling their expenses. There is still a slim chance (maybe wishful thinking) of seeing Tony Blair facing charges over the Iraq war. Where politicians otherwise do not meet the ethical standard of its electorate they stand to get voted out. That is how a healthy democracy works. So the purpose of a relgious lobby is to influence the politcal process.
Whilst everyone has the right to club together to make their voice heard a powerful religious lobby is I think a dangerous thing because ultimately there is no compromise or negotiation with folk who have faith in "God's law" and the logical end point is a theocracy and intolerance of alternative views. At least that is my fear. Put another way: if religious folk are ready to compromise then they have an equal vote with the rest of us.
Whilst everyone has the right to club together to make their voice heard a powerful religious lobby is I think a dangerous thing because ultimately there is no compromise or negotiation with folk who have faith in "God's law" and the logical end point is a theocracy and intolerance of alternative views. At least that is my fear. Put another way: if religious folk are ready to compromise then they have an equal vote with the rest of us.
Post #8
On the surface of it you make a very good argument.... only thing is politicians are in an excellent position to change or manipulate the laws and with parties working together even in what appears to be a democracy we seem to unavoidably get "Regimes" that are able to operate above the Law (without accountability) they have the ability to choose the top Judges, enlist the best spin doctors, create new legislation, amend existing legislation, control? the focus of law enforcement agencies...... the list goes on and on
As individuals it could be said they are accountable for their actions but as a group they are not held accountable for their actions- even if they are voted out the damage is done. [So what will it change if Tony Blair takes one for the team?]...
I do agree with you that their would be a real problem dealing with religious types of intolerance and History proves this problem is not to be sneered at (or else) ...
On the other hand the Business Mentality has its problems as well first- Honouring the word is not required to make a sale so if there is rust in the chassis and you can get the customer to focus upon how shiny the hub caps are you may well make a sale and that’s what you are employed for- But more importantly when the doors shut at night the customer/clients are no longer your concern
In a family of course your siblings are of concern 24/7 and if considered from a business point of view they would be liabilities not assets…… or simply “loved ones�- (should we all become so cold?)
So that leaves concepts of what is believed to be a healthy Democracy… here we have a multiple choice as well- some consider the ability to vote in an election to be an indication of democracy (Nations like America have proven that groups with large sums of money can facilitate democracy?) I see a problem there because domestically- it is mostly control of the Public Purse (bottomless pit) being negotiated for on behalf of Business recipients with no open accounting
Others would believe that a Democracy is intended to meet the Hopes and Aspirations of the people through their elected representatives … but this too would require honour as again the hopes and aspirations of only one sector may be addressed and of course the nature of the vote itself means you only need to please the people coming up to the elections (Santa gets a shot)
New Zealand is a rather small and young country that sent more of its sons off to the two significant wars per capita than any other Nation- everyone lost a Brother, Father, Son or Friend in defense of the Victims of Oppressive Regimes- after the Wars People/survivors were united and honour was present as seen nowadays internationally after significant disasters …With very little the nation built its infrastructure, Dams for water supply or Electricity, Roads, Communications etc all under a Structure known as a “Constitutional Monarchy� and initiated by their Elected Representatives while administrated by Ministries- It worked so well that Business mentalities focused upon those interests and now the Securities built for future Generations are “Owned� by Businesses and those that invested are clients and customers – I see very real problems with that and I also see a Business Sponsored Media call for a Republic on the horizon- (now the Peoples Assets accumulated under a Constitutional Monarchy have been laundered).
The people did get to vote for representatives but not for the laundering or relinquishing of their Investments, or the Stability and Security these provided –Yet another example of a flaw within the types of Democracy available?-
As individuals it could be said they are accountable for their actions but as a group they are not held accountable for their actions- even if they are voted out the damage is done. [So what will it change if Tony Blair takes one for the team?]...
I do agree with you that their would be a real problem dealing with religious types of intolerance and History proves this problem is not to be sneered at (or else) ...
On the other hand the Business Mentality has its problems as well first- Honouring the word is not required to make a sale so if there is rust in the chassis and you can get the customer to focus upon how shiny the hub caps are you may well make a sale and that’s what you are employed for- But more importantly when the doors shut at night the customer/clients are no longer your concern
In a family of course your siblings are of concern 24/7 and if considered from a business point of view they would be liabilities not assets…… or simply “loved ones�- (should we all become so cold?)
So that leaves concepts of what is believed to be a healthy Democracy… here we have a multiple choice as well- some consider the ability to vote in an election to be an indication of democracy (Nations like America have proven that groups with large sums of money can facilitate democracy?) I see a problem there because domestically- it is mostly control of the Public Purse (bottomless pit) being negotiated for on behalf of Business recipients with no open accounting
Others would believe that a Democracy is intended to meet the Hopes and Aspirations of the people through their elected representatives … but this too would require honour as again the hopes and aspirations of only one sector may be addressed and of course the nature of the vote itself means you only need to please the people coming up to the elections (Santa gets a shot)
New Zealand is a rather small and young country that sent more of its sons off to the two significant wars per capita than any other Nation- everyone lost a Brother, Father, Son or Friend in defense of the Victims of Oppressive Regimes- after the Wars People/survivors were united and honour was present as seen nowadays internationally after significant disasters …With very little the nation built its infrastructure, Dams for water supply or Electricity, Roads, Communications etc all under a Structure known as a “Constitutional Monarchy� and initiated by their Elected Representatives while administrated by Ministries- It worked so well that Business mentalities focused upon those interests and now the Securities built for future Generations are “Owned� by Businesses and those that invested are clients and customers – I see very real problems with that and I also see a Business Sponsored Media call for a Republic on the horizon- (now the Peoples Assets accumulated under a Constitutional Monarchy have been laundered).
The people did get to vote for representatives but not for the laundering or relinquishing of their Investments, or the Stability and Security these provided –Yet another example of a flaw within the types of Democracy available?-
