If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

[Mirac]

Today science reveals many miracles that no one knew 14 centuries ago. Implications stated in Quran when people thought the earth had the shape of a tray prove that it was written by god. There are many evidence enough to write a book but I am giving you a few.

1. The Two Seas That Don't Merge

A French oceanographer, J. Cousteau noticed that the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean did not merge in the strait of Gibraltar. An incredible barrier prevented the two seas from coming together as stated in Quran.

"He has let free the two seas meeting together. Between them there is a barrier which they do not transgress."

(55-Gracious, 19-20)

This is because of a physical characteristic called “surface tension.� Thus, neighboring seas present different densities, salinity rates and compositions. Water, that usually mixes easily, can turn into a wall and it is not affected by strong waves and currents.

"He is the One who has set free the two seas; one is sweet and palatable, and the other is salty and bitter. And He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed."
(25-The Distinquisher, 53)

2. Orbits of Astronomical Objects

In 17th century Galileo Galilei discovered that planets orbited sun.

"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun, and the moon; each of them floating in an orbit."

(21-The Prophets, 33)

"By the Sky with its ingeniously devised paths (orbits)."
(51-The Dispersing, 7)

3. Landing on the Moon and its Date

"And the Moon when it is full. You will surely ride from stage to stage. So, why do they not believe?"
(84-The Splitting, 18-20)

"The Hour has come closer and the moon has split."
(54-The Moon, 1)

The number of verses to be counted from this verse to the end of the Quran is 1389. The year 1389 in the Muslim calendar corresponds to the year 1969 in the Gregorian calendar, and the year 1969 was the year when man set foot on the moon for the first time.

4. The Land-Sea Ratio

Word --- Number of occurrence in Quran ---- The Ratio
Sea --------------------- 32 --------------------- 32/45=71.111
Land -------------------- 13 --------------------- 13/45=28.888

The ratio of seas to earth: %71
The ratio of lands to earth: %29

5. Geoidal Form of Earth

Quran explains that the shape of earth is not like a tray or a sphere but geoidal by resembling it to an ostrich's egg. The word “dahw� in the verse below means rotundity like that of the ostrich’s egg.

"He made the earth egg-shaped."

(79-The Snatchers, 30)

6. Only Female Bees Work

In recent decades, it was understood that only female bees build hives, collect nectar and make honey.

"And your Lord revealed the female honeybee; build homes in mountains, and trees, and in the hives people built for you. Then, eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of your Lord made easy (for you). There comes forth from their bellies, a drink of varying colour wherein is healing for men. Verily, in this is indeed a sign for people who think."

(16-The Honeybee, 68-69)

7. Pulsars

Pulsars are highly magnetized, rotating neutron stars that emit a beam of electromagnetic radiation. The radiation can only be observed when the beam of emission is pointing towards the Earth. This is called the lighthouse effect and gives rise to the pulsed nature that gives pulsars their name. The first pulsar was observed on November 28, 1967 (from wikipedia)

"By the heavens and The Knocker. How will you comprehend what the The Knocker is? It’s a piercing star."
(86-The Knocker, 1-3)

8. Unique Fingertips

In 1856, Genn Ginsen found out that the pattern of lines at the tip of a person’s finger was something unique to the individual. Until 1856, men knew nothing about this characteristic of fingertips.

"Does the human being think that We cannot assemble his bones? Surely, We are able to reconstruct even his fingertips."

(75-The Resurrection, 3-4)

9. Big Bang, Gaseous Stage and Expansion of Universe

The Big Bang was the event which led to the formation of the universe, according to the prevailing cosmological theory of the universe's early development (known as the Big Bang theory or Big Bang model). According to the Big Bang model, the universe, originally in an extremely hot and dense state that expanded rapidly, has since cooled by expanding to the present diluted state, and continues to expand today. Over a long period of time, the slightly denser regions of the nearly uniformly distributed matter gravitationally attracted nearby matter and thus grew even denser, forming gas clouds, stars, galaxies, and the other astronomical structures observable today. (from wikipedia)

"Do not these disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were an integrated mass, which We then split, and from water We made all living things? Will they not believe even then?"

(21-The Prophets, 30)

"Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.� They said, “We come willingly.� "

(41-Elucidated, 11)

"With power did We construct firmament. Verily, We are expanding it."

(51-The Dispersing, 47)

10. The Atom and its Particles

"Not even an atom’s weight in the heavens and the earth, or something smaller or greater than it is hidden from Him, but all are in a clear record."

(34-Sheba, 3)

[Mirac]

Moderator Comment

I guess you do not understand basic English if you inferred that ...

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This is a discrimination. Why I am getting the warning when I am returning a negative comment to its owner. Did you also check what he said?

[Jester]

Moderator Warning

This is a discrimination. Why I am getting the warning when I am returning a negative comment to its owner. Did you also check what he said?

Public responses to moderator comments are not allowed under the rules. In the future, use a private message.

To indulge, however, the answer is "no". I did not read what he said because it was not reported. If you feel there is a problem, please report it.
Regardless of that issue, however, returning a negative comment is not allowed.

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[micatala]

Do you understand basic English?

Moderator Comment

There is no need to make comments questioning the language ability of other members.


Please review the Rules.


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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

[darwinian]

I provided, but you are so lazy to read earlier posts. Gross and Thurman have discovered barriers, and you say that barriers are actually haloclines which can be seen without any technical equipment. Therefore, your logic disproves you. If haloclines have been known for ages then it cannot be the haloclines that scientists have discovered recently. Also, that is why they do not say that they have discovered haloclines, but the barriers that were mentioned in the Qur’an.

First of all stop talking of "barriers". Those are called "clines" technically, and like I said there are several types of them, around four according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cline_%28hydrology%29

Now I made my point about why the "barrier" spoken of in the Quran should be identified as haloclines. I said that the Quran speaks of the barrier is between salty water and fresh water. This should be a halocline that forms where rivers meet the ocean. I also told you that haloclines are more like to be observed by ancient divers than other kinds of clines.

But still it came to my attention that an ancient Greek scientist that lived in the first century AD, named Gaius Plinius Secundus did write about clines occuring where rivers meet the ocean, in his book Naturalis Historia. Further proving my point. You have never offered any evidence that any ideas or observations about clines are nonexistent in ancient literature.

Could you link a picture where a halocline can be seen by naked eye? I am really curious if it can be seen that easily. I do not think that ancients had diving equipment and oxygen tubes, so they could dive deep in the water. Also pearl grows in shallow water. Therefore, you should prove that it can be seen in shallow water.

I also repeatedly told you to google-images for "halocline effect" where you could see pictures taken by divers themselves. Halocline itself cannot be observed but its effect can be observed when you pass through it: when the halocline is disturbed it will create a blurry vision underwater, and this is what the divers call the halocline effect. And if ancient divers experienced that, and if they noticed that one of the sides of the "barrier" is salty while the other being fresh water, then that could be the origin of such a report in the Quran.

Now if you want to identify the Quranic "barrier" with a different kind of cline you should make your point, and also refer to the cline with its technical term so we can understand what you are talking about.

The verse can be translated in either way. Detailed translations also give the other meaning. How Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, Shakir translate does not change this fact.

Change what fact? you mean the "fact" that the Quran speaks of an expanding universe? But how are we to conclude that there is such a fact about the Quran if main translations dont have it?

why do you come here and tell us of a "miracle"?

I did not know that I had to get a permission from you to tell what I think. I thought that contributors of this forum valued the freedom of speech.

This is a debate forum. You dont come here to just tell anything because it is "freedom of speech". I asked you why you keep telling us there is a miracle about "expanding universe" if there is no such thing in the Quran at all. You are evading the question.

[darwinian]

Pliny the Elder (Gaius Plinius Secundus) in his book Natural History (Naturalis Historia), which was written 600 years before Muhammad, speaks explicitly of clines occuring where rivers meet the ocean:

"It is very remarkable that fresh water should burst out close to the sea, as from pipes. But there is no end to the wonders that are connected with the nature of waters. Fresh water floats on sea water, no doubt from its being lighter; and therefore sea water, which is of a heavier nature, supports better what floats upon it. And, in some places, different kinds of fresh water float upon each other; as that of the river which falls into the Fucinus; that of the Addua into the Larius; of the Ticinus into the Verbanus; of the Mincius into the Benacus; of the Ollius into the Sevinus; and of the Rhone into the Leman lake (this last being beyond the Alps, the others in Italy): all which rivers passing through the lakes for many miles, generally carry off no more water than they bring with them. The same thing is said to occur in the Orontes, a river of Syria, and in many others" -- Pliny the Elder, Natural History, Book 2, Chapter 106 (103 in some texts)

The exact page from his book:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... pter%3D106

Now I think you will repudiate your "proof" that the Quran miraculously speaks of clines way ahead of modern science!

[Mirac]

My question still remains unanswered. If the clines have been known for ages then what was the thing that Thurman and Gross had discovered?
Also, if it cannot be seen then why you ask me to see its pictures?
I have already told you that the verse has multiple meanings, so it is meaningless to expect everyone to understand the same.

[Wyvern]

My question still remains unanswered. If the clines have been known for ages then what was the thing that Thurman and Gross had discovered?
Also, if it cannot be seen then why you ask me to see its pictures?
I have already told you that the verse has multiple meanings, so it is meaningless to expect everyone to understand the same.

If verses have multiple meanings then why are you claiming this particular verse has only one meaning?

[Goat]

My question still remains unanswered. If the clines have been known for ages then what was the thing that Thurman and Gross had discovered?
Also, if it cannot be seen then why you ask me to see its pictures?
I have already told you that the verse has multiple meanings, so it is meaningless to expect everyone to understand the same.

The phenomena known as 'Clines' has been know for a long time, however, Goss and Thurman discovered a previously unknown example of it.

[arcadiopolis]

It seems people here claim that haloclines were known by some people in 6th century. Allright.

But the issue in point is for those who have foresight:

[25.53] It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.

[25.54] It is He Who has created man from water: then has He established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things).

[25.55] Yet do they worship, besides Allah, things that can neither profit them nor harm them: and the Misbeliever is a helper (of Evil), against his own Lord!

The point is for the critical thinkers: God does not let water blend together--> But He lets humanity that were once water, blend together through relationships of lineage and marriage.


Yet insisting disbelievers insist to disbelieve. Nevertheless, if God wanted everyone as believers He would let everyone realize! So be chosen, if you are chosen to be in the garden of bliss, then you are chosen.

[Wootah]

It seems people here claim that haloclines were known by some people in 6th century. Allright.

But the issue in point is for those who have foresight:

[25.53] It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.

[25.54] It is He Who has created man from water: then has He established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things).

[25.55] Yet do they worship, besides Allah, things that can neither profit them nor harm them: and the Misbeliever is a helper (of Evil), against his own Lord!

The point is for the critical thinkers: God does not let water blend together--> But He lets humanity that were once water, blend together through relationships of lineage and marriage.


Yet insisting disbelievers insist to disbelieve. Nevertheless, if God wanted everyone as believers He would let everyone realize! So be chosen, if you are chosen to be in the garden of bliss, then you are chosen.

Does that mean that Mirac is a disbeliever because he doesn't understand the passage and thinks it relates to science?