We are each limited and gifted. We did not create, request or define who we are and the physical and personality traits we have to work with. Is it therefore reasonable we all be held accountable for our accomplishments we may achieve or attocities we may commit?
Bro Dave
Are you responsible for your physical vehicle's limitations?
Moderator: Moderators
Post #3
Ofcourse you are.We are each limited and gifted. We did not create, request or define who we are and the physical and personality traits we have to work with. Is it therefore reasonable we all be held accountable for our accomplishments we may achieve or attocities we may commit?
You, yourself, are responsible for your own actions, and your own life.
You, as a person, can modify both your physical and personality traits. You can improve your physique trough training and general exercise. Becoming more Vital, improving dexterity and so forth.
The same goes for your personal traits. How you work, how you act, like a human being. You can improve, or worsen, You, as a person, can become more intelligent, or less intelligent.
To say that you cant improve, is tragical and pathetic to say. As this limits what you are, and also shows that you, cant become better at anything.
Post #4
Okay, so then if I am mentally handicapped, I am as fully responsible as are you. Do you see my point? There has to be some grey scale here, with a line somewhere in the middle. And if there is, how did you get on the side of the line you are on?Of course you are.
You, yourself, are responsible for your own actions, and your own life.
You, as a person, can modify both your physical and personality traits. You can improve your physique trough training and general exercise. Becoming more Vital, improving dexterity and so forth.
The same goes for your personal traits. How you work, how you act, like a human being. You can improve, or worsen, You, as a person, can become more intelligent, or less intelligent.
To say that you cant improve, is tragical and pathetic to say. As this limits what you are, and also shows that you, cant become better at anything.
Bro Dave
Post #5
1. Anything particular you wish to refer the responsibility on?(1)Okay, so then if I am mentally handicapped, I am as fully responsible as are you. (2)Do you see my point? There has to be some grey scale here, with a line somewhere in the middle. (3)And if there is, how did you get on the side of the line you are on?
2. I dont see a grey scale, where is it?
3. What side? How do you mean?
Whatever you are retarded, Creationist or Criminal, you are still responsible for your life. If you dont agree to this, we have a world like the United States, where everyone can sue anyone, for doing anything.
You dont seem to want to equate responsibility to someone because they are ´mentally handicapped´, if so, this means of course that someone else would be responsible for him/her. So can this handicapped person do anything he/she wants? Personally, i do not like the idea of letting mentally handicapped people live, as they are a burden to society, but this is another topic.
Re: Are you responsible for your physical vehicle's limitati
Post #6This is a great question. Are sociopaths born or are they made? And if they are born the way they are, how do we reconcile the idea that people should have the "freedom" to live the way they choose?Bro Dave wrote:We are each limited and gifted. We did not create, request or define who we are and the physical and personality traits we have to work with. Is it therefore reasonable we all be held accountable for our accomplishments we may achieve or attocities we may commit?
The best answer I've heard goes something along the lines of "We're dealt our hand, it's up to us to play it."
You can take this to an extreme and ask questions such as: Is it disappointing that Einstein did not produce more groundbreaking material, seeing as how he was a genius and all? Which really isn't fair.
or...
Should the Boston Strangler be congratulated for only killing thirteen women? Which doesn't seem fair either.
But, in general, I believe that what we achieve and what crimes we may commit are under our control. There are exceptions, of course, but this would be a rule.
Post #7
My point is, our individual ability to control our lives is limited by the mental and physical tools we came into the world with. I believe we are like “drivers” of the “vehicle”, and not the vehicle itself. But none the less, if the “windshield” of our vehicle is smashed, limiting our visibility, we are more likely to have an accident. Does that make us worse as a driver than the person whose windshield is not broken?
Another way to view it is we are all actors in a play, and has been given a character to express. This role, beggar or king, will color our choices and our experiences in life. Yes, you must reach for what you perceive as your highest potential. That is our individual responsibility. However, that potential may be severely limited. Our I.Q may be low. Whatever the limitation, you will respond differently than someone else. So, do your achievements or failings reflect on you, the actor, or can you transfer responsibility to God, who cast you in this role, for who you become?
Bro Dave
Another way to view it is we are all actors in a play, and has been given a character to express. This role, beggar or king, will color our choices and our experiences in life. Yes, you must reach for what you perceive as your highest potential. That is our individual responsibility. However, that potential may be severely limited. Our I.Q may be low. Whatever the limitation, you will respond differently than someone else. So, do your achievements or failings reflect on you, the actor, or can you transfer responsibility to God, who cast you in this role, for who you become?
Bro Dave
Re: Are you responsible for your physical vehicle's limitati
Post #8ST88, since you are agnostic, the possibilities are going to be limited to genetic roulette. Some are lucky, some are not. This, in my opinion, puts you at an advantage, because you do not consider the possibility of being cast in a poor or degrading part by your Creator. Because of this, you will take responsibility not so much for the limitations of your vehicle, and will just try to maximize its potential. But for those who believe in God, the question can be vexing! So vexing in fact, that is never really formally addressed. This brings me to the reason I asked the question to start with. Is God our partner in this life, living within us and sharing in every experience? Or is He some dispassionate observer who in His perfection is completely above it all? Well, if you pick #2, God could hardly create imperfect beings,(or beings capable of being imperfect) and then not take responsibility for those imperfections.
So, which is it?
Bro Dave
So, which is it?
Bro Dave
Post #9
Well no, its genetics. You can have superior genetic, or inferior, thats why genetical breeding should be conducted, so we can get out the best instead of letting anyone spread inferior genes around.ST88, since you are agnostic, the possibilities are going to be limited to genetic roulette. Some are lucky, some are not. This, in my opinion, puts you at an advantage, because you do not consider the possibility of being cast in a poor or degrading part by your Creator. Because of this, you will take responsibility not so much for the limitations of your vehicle, and will just try to maximize its potential. But for those who believe in God, the question can be vexing! So vexing in fact, that is never really formally addressed. This brings me to the reason I asked the question to start with. Is God our partner in this life, living within us and sharing in every experience? Or is He some dispassionate observer who in His perfection is completely above it all? Well, if you pick #2, God could hardly create imperfect beings,(or beings capable of being imperfect) and then not take responsibility for those imperfections.
Christians must be on my side about this, because some people are closer to God (the Jews are the chosen people for example), which makes that they should agree on whom and what is to breed. Especially when they are against homosexuality and such. But i never spoken to a Christian about it, they rarely want to face the hard questions.
But my view is pretty debated, and most people dont agree.
Post #10
Eugenics is a touchy subject, especially in light of Hitler, but yet you have to be stupid not to see what is so crucial to breeding thouroughbreds and show animals, can hardly be dismissed for humans.Well no, its genetics. You can have superior genetic, or inferior, thats why genetical breeding should be conducted, so we can get out the best instead of letting anyone spread inferior genes around.
Christians must be on my side about this, because some people are closer to God (the Jews are the chosen people for example), which makes that they should agree on whom and what is to breed. Especially when they are against homosexuality and such. But i never spoken to a Christian about it, they rarely want to face the hard questions.
But my view is pretty debated, and most people dont agree.
For me, one must first seperate the driver from his/her vehicle. If you got a "Mercadez", good for you. But what if you ended up with a Yugo?
The UB takes a lot of hateful hits because they say we will need to address exactly the problems you mentioned. However, they emphisize that we are not to get too proactive! This is a field where some immediate prevention in perpetuating inferior vehicles is critical. Yes, we will have to continue "maintanance" on those already "off the production line", but we DO need to close the "factories"!
Here is a quote from the Urantia Book:
After all, the real jeopardy of the human species is to be found in the unrestrained multiplication of the inferior and degenerate strains of the various civilized peoples rather than in any supposed danger of their racial interbreeding.
[Presented by the Chief of Seraphim stationed on Urantia.]
So you are not alone in your assesment, only a little ahead of your time...
Bro Dave
