God must be crazy! if this be true!!--1

[shubhamgarg1993]

Put simply, the basic premise of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are as follows:
- God is just, kind, perfect
- This life is our first and last life
- God is testing us here
- Based on the marks we obtain in this test, we will go to either Heaven or Hell.
The differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam lie only in
- the testing criteria and the description of Heaven and Hell
- the level of fanaticism required for passing this Test.
But the basic construct is same – One Life which is Test, God is best examiner, and Result is Pass (Heaven) or Fail (Hell) .
Let us evaluate this basic construct critically through a series of examples, and decide whether it is logically plausible.


1.
Many children die in the wombs. Now as per Islam or Christianity would they go to Heaven or Hell? Most scholars of Islam and Christianity say they go to Heaven because they never did anything wrong in their lives.
Now my question is “Did they even have an option to do anything wrong?�
Is God not being partial by clearing one candidate even without starting his examination, and another one has to keep giving test after test continuously for 100 years!

2.
Many children die young before they reach maturity. Even the wrong acts they do are not out of willful desire to do something wrong but out of innocence. Would they reach Heaven or Hell?
If they reach Heaven, then why does God not kill everyone in their childhood and ensure a seat in Heaven for them? Is God not being unjust and imperfect?
If they reach Hell, what was their fault?
Say twins were born. Both lived same innocent life for first 3 years. Then one died. He will go straight to Heaven. The other remained innocent for next few years, then got into bad company, became an Apostate/Kafir and died at age of 60. Now he should go to Hell, as per the Books.
Is this not God’s crime that he made him live for 60 years and not his brother? Had he killed both at same age of 3 years, both would have gone to Heaven!
So if there is one life and permanent Heaven/Hell, it proves God is unjust.

3.
A person is born insane. His mental faculties have not developed beyond say, age of five. But he lives a long life. Will he go to Hell or Heaven?
Again the same questions as above rise. And result in either God being unjust or concept of one life as test to enter Heaven/Hell being wrong.

4.
One person is born in family of Hindu, another in home of an atheist, one as a Muslim and another as a Christian. Based on what they imbibe from their respective societies, they become a devout Hindu, Atheist, Muslim and Christian respectively.
Now as per Islam, only those who believe in Quran and Muhammad can go to Heaven. As per Christians, only those who surrender to Jesus can go to Heaven.
So who will go where?
Definitely the Hindu and Atheist are bound to go to Hell. Now my question is “Was God not unjust by not giving everyone birth in family of Muslim or Christian, whosoever is correct?�
What is my fault if I was born and brought up in a Hindu family and never got any reason to be convinced by Quran or Bible? Why has God planned my stay in Hell from advance?

5.
A person who is devout follower of Islam believes that children go to Heaven because that is what scholars teach him. So as a noble example of self-sacrifice, he starts killing children. His logic is that, even if I have to burn in Hell forever, I should do my best to ensure that these innocent children get reservation for Paradise!
Thus he is doing a selfless social service. Will he go to Heaven or Hell?
If he goes to Heaven, then Allah or God is setting a wrong example for people to follow.
If he goes to Hell, then selflessness is bad.
Further, since no one will actually know who will go where until doomsday comes, it means God has already spread enough confusion to motivate many innocent selfless social workers to follow the path of infanticide and killing!


do wait for another part of this topic for other questions(15 total) i didn't wish to make this topic a lengthy one.

[Kuan]

1.
Many children die in the wombs. Now as per Islam or Christianity would they go to Heaven or Hell? Most scholars of Islam and Christianity say they go to Heaven because they never did anything wrong in their lives.
Now my question is “Did they even have an option to do anything wrong?�
Is God not being partial by clearing one candidate even without starting his examination, and another one has to keep giving test after test continuously for 100 years!

A lot depends on the beliefs here, for me: They were already tested somehow before they got here.

2.
Many children die young before they reach maturity. Even the wrong acts they do are not out of willful desire to do something wrong but out of innocence. Would they reach Heaven or Hell?
If they reach Heaven, then why does God not kill everyone in their childhood and ensure a seat in Heaven for them? Is God not being unjust and imperfect?
If they reach Hell, what was their fault?
Say twins were born. Both lived same innocent life for first 3 years. Then one died. He will go straight to Heaven. The other remained innocent for next few years, then got into bad company, became an Apostate/Kafir and died at age of 60. Now he should go to Hell, as per the Books.
Is this not God’s crime that he made him live for 60 years and not his brother? Had he killed both at same age of 3 years, both would have gone to Heaven!
So if there is one life and permanent Heaven/Hell, it proves God is unjust.

I believe there is a age where children become accountable for there sins. The twin analogy doesn't really work because they might look alike, but they aren't the same spirit or person.

3.
A person is born insane. His mental faculties have not developed beyond say, age of five. But he lives a long life. Will he go to Hell or Heaven?
Again the same questions as above rise. And result in either God being unjust or concept of one life as test to enter Heaven/Hell being wrong.

Again, he was already tested so he didnt need to be tested on earth.

4.
One person is born in family of Hindu, another in home of an atheist, one as a Muslim and another as a Christian. Based on what they imbibe from their respective societies, they become a devout Hindu, Atheist, Muslim and Christian respectively.
Now as per Islam, only those who believe in Quran and Muhammad can go to Heaven. As per Christians, only those who surrender to Jesus can go to Heaven.
So who will go where?
Definitely the Hindu and Atheist are bound to go to Hell. Now my question is “Was God not unjust by not giving everyone birth in family of Muslim or Christian, whosoever is correct?�
What is my fault if I was born and brought up in a Hindu family and never got any reason to be convinced by Quran or Bible? Why has God planned my stay in Hell from advance?

Your not judged by your faith in god. Your judged by your actions here on earth. If there is a heaven, I guarantee you that there will be atheists and Hindus there.

5.
A person who is devout follower of Islam believes that children go to Heaven because that is what scholars teach him. So as a noble example of self-sacrifice, he starts killing children. His logic is that, even if I have to burn in Hell forever, I should do my best to ensure that these innocent children get reservation for Paradise!
Thus he is doing a selfless social service. Will he go to Heaven or Hell?
If he goes to Heaven, then Allah or God is setting a wrong example for people to follow.
If he goes to Hell, then selflessness is bad.
Further, since no one will actually know who will go where until doomsday comes, it means God has already spread enough confusion to motivate many innocent selfless social workers to follow the path of infanticide and killing!

Yes, this probably happens but god did not intend it to happen this way. This scenario is not gods fault, its human fault.
[/quote]
Judging by the subforum this is in and your wording, I dont think it was intended for a christian...but I just realized that so I think im still gonna post cause this would be a waste of time otherwise....

P.S. Mods, please dont get too at me!

[McCulloch]

I believe there is a age where children become accountable for there sins.

Including their sins against the English language? Why shouldn't these children be killed before reaching that unspecified age? Kill them: 100% chance of them getting rewarded. Let them live: less than that.

You're not judged by your faith in god. You're judged by your actions here on earth.

This teaching is contrary to the New Testament and many the teaching of many Christians.

If there is a heaven, I guarantee you that there will be atheists and Hindus there.

How can you make such a guarantee? Can you give me another chance at life, if you end up being wrong?

[Kuan]

I believe there is a age where children become accountable for there sins.

Including their sins against the English language? Why shouldn't these children be killed before reaching that unspecified age? Kill them: 100% chance of them getting rewarded. Let them live: less than that.

Yeah thats a 100% chance of making it. But god didn't intend for this to happen.

You're not judged by your faith in god. You're judged by your actions here on earth.

This teaching is contrary to the New Testament and many the teaching of many Christians.

It might be contrary to other christians but then again, us mormons are pretty crazy!

If there is a heaven, I guarantee you that there will be atheists and Hindus there.

How can you make such a guarantee? Can you give me another chance at life, if you end up being wrong?

How? Because I dont see any other way that it could work. If you were judged for your faith rather than works it would not be fair. I cant give you another chance but If I end up being wrong, I dont think you will lose anything.

[McCulloch]

I believe there is a age where children become accountable for there sins.

Why shouldn't these children be killed before reaching that unspecified age? Kill them: 100% chance of them getting rewarded. Let them live: less than that.

Yeah thats a 100% chance of making it. But god didn't intend for this to happen.

Why not? How do you know?

Us mormons are pretty crazy!

That would be we not us.

If there is a heaven, I guarantee you that there will be atheists and Hindus there.

How can you make such a guarantee? Can you give me another chance at life, if you end up being wrong?

How? Because I don't see any other way that it could work. If you were judged for your faith rather than works it would not be fair. I cant give you another chance but If I end up being wrong, I don't think you will lose anything.

How can that be called a guarantee? A guarantee, in finance, is a promise by one party to assume responsibility for the debt obligation of a borrower if that borrower defaults. In commercial law, a guarantee, aka a warranty, is an assurance by one party to the other party that certain facts or conditions are true or will happen; the other party is permitted to rely on that assurance and seek some type of remedy if it is not true or followed.

[ChaosBorders]

Put simply, the basic premise of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are as follows:
- God is just, kind, perfect
- This life is our first and last life
- God is testing us here
- Based on the marks we obtain in this test, we will go to either Heaven or Hell.
The differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam lie only in
- the testing criteria and the description of Heaven and Hell
- the level of fanaticism required for passing this Test.
But the basic construct is same – One Life which is Test, God is best examiner, and Result is Pass (Heaven) or Fail (Hell) .
Let us evaluate this basic construct critically through a series of examples, and decide whether it is logically plausible.

That might be the basic premise of many who follow those religions, but certainly not all of us. I, for one, do not think God is testing us here, nor any of your points that follow from that.

[Burninglight]

Put simply, the basic premise of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are as follows:
- God is just, kind, perfect
- This life is our first and last life
- God is testing us here
- Based on the marks we obtain in this test, we will go to either Heaven or Hell.
The differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam lie only in
- the testing criteria and the description of Heaven and Hell
- the level of fanaticism required for passing this Test.
But the basic construct is same – One Life which is Test, God is best examiner, and Result is Pass (Heaven) or Fail (Hell) .
Let us evaluate this basic construct critically through a series of examples, and decide whether it is logically plausible.


1.
Many children die in the wombs. Now as per Islam or Christianity would they go to Heaven or Hell? Most scholars of Islam and Christianity say they go to Heaven because they never did anything wrong in their lives.
Now my question is “Did they even have an option to do anything wrong?�
Is God not being partial by clearing one candidate even without starting his examination, and another one has to keep giving test after test continuously for 100 years!

2.
Many children die young before they reach maturity. Even the wrong acts they do are not out of willful desire to do something wrong but out of innocence. Would they reach Heaven or Hell?
If they reach Heaven, then why does God not kill everyone in their childhood and ensure a seat in Heaven for them? Is God not being unjust and imperfect?
If they reach Hell, what was their fault?
Say twins were born. Both lived same innocent life for first 3 years. Then one died. He will go straight to Heaven. The other remained innocent for next few years, then got into bad company, became an Apostate/Kafir and died at age of 60. Now he should go to Hell, as per the Books.
Is this not God’s crime that he made him live for 60 years and not his brother? Had he killed both at same age of 3 years, both would have gone to Heaven!
So if there is one life and permanent Heaven/Hell, it proves God is unjust.

3.
A person is born insane. His mental faculties have not developed beyond say, age of five. But he lives a long life. Will he go to Hell or Heaven?
Again the same questions as above rise. And result in either God being unjust or concept of one life as test to enter Heaven/Hell being wrong.

4.
One person is born in family of Hindu, another in home of an atheist, one as a Muslim and another as a Christian. Based on what they imbibe from their respective societies, they become a devout Hindu, Atheist, Muslim and Christian respectively.
Now as per Islam, only those who believe in Quran and Muhammad can go to Heaven. As per Christians, only those who surrender to Jesus can go to Heaven.
So who will go where?
Definitely the Hindu and Atheist are bound to go to Hell. Now my question is “Was God not unjust by not giving everyone birth in family of Muslim or Christian, whosoever is correct?�
What is my fault if I was born and brought up in a Hindu family and never got any reason to be convinced by Quran or Bible? Why has God planned my stay in Hell from advance?

5.
A person who is devout follower of Islam believes that children go to Heaven because that is what scholars teach him. So as a noble example of self-sacrifice, he starts killing children. His logic is that, even if I have to burn in Hell forever, I should do my best to ensure that these innocent children get reservation for Paradise!
Thus he is doing a selfless social service. Will he go to Heaven or Hell?
If he goes to Heaven, then Allah or God is setting a wrong example for people to follow.
If he goes to Hell, then selflessness is bad.
Further, since no one will actually know who will go where until doomsday comes, it means God has already spread enough confusion to motivate many innocent selfless social workers to follow the path of infanticide and killing!


do wait for another part of this topic for other questions(15 total) i didn't wish to make this topic a lengthy one.

They are good questions. I was born and raised Catholic, but I didn't remain that way. It is the same, those that are born into Muslim, Hindu or even in cults are going to always be a product of their up bringing, but they don't have to be a prisoner to it. God created man in His image and likeness with the power to chose.

God doesn't want a bunch of compliant automatons. We are all free to choose, but we aren't free of the consequences of those choices. I believe everyone gets a change to choose, and all are responsible for the amount of faith they have been given or the amount of light they have received.

If you took God out of the picture, you can say life is crazy too. Life is certainly not fair. The Bible says, "He that has the son of God has life; he that doesn't have the son has not life, but the wrath of God abides on him. The point is this: As written: "How shall we escape the judgment of God if we neglect so great a salvation."

Jesus gave himself as a living sacrafice so we could have eternal life. Everyone that reads this message has been given an opportunity to choose. Our choices in this life determine our eternal fate.

[Burninglight]

I believe there is a age where children become accountable for there sins.

Including their sins against the English language? Why shouldn't these children be killed before reaching that unspecified age? Kill them: 100% chance of them getting rewarded. Let them live: less than that.

You're not judged by your faith in god. You're judged by your actions here on earth.

This teaching is contrary to the New Testament and many the teaching of many Christians.

If there is a heaven, I guarantee you that there will be atheists and Hindus there.

How can you make such a guarantee? Can you give me another chance at life, if you end up being wrong?

Mormons want to be considered Christians but they teach contrary to what Christians believe. IMO, that proves Mormonism is a cult, Christians will assure you that if you remain in Mormonism and teach others that way of life, you will definitely reap a Christless eternity. If you ask how I know? I'll say it is written in the Bible that those that trust in their works have fallen from God's grace. We are only saved by God's grace through faith. If one has faith, there will be works, but one can have works without faith. Unless it is works that are a product of faith and God's creating in us the will to do of His good pleasure, it profits us nothing.

[McCulloch]

Mormons want to be considered Christians but they teach contrary to what Christians believe.

Mormons, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, self-identify as Christian, though some of their beliefs differ from mainstream Christianity. How would you classify them? They are not Hindu, Muslim or Jewish. Their history, mythology, teachings and traditions all originate from the Christian movement.

IMO, that proves Mormonism is a cult,

What do you mean by the word cult?

Q. What is the difference between a cult and a denomination?
A. About two hundred years.

Most scholars no longer refer to any new or unorthodox religious movements as cults.

[Burninglight]

Mormons want to be considered Christians but they teach contrary to what Christians believe.

Mormons, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, self-identify as Christian, though some of their beliefs differ from mainstream Christianity. How would you classify them? They are not Hindu, Muslim or Jewish. Their history, mythology, teachings and traditions all originate from the Christian movement.

IMO, that proves Mormonism is a cult,

What do you mean by the word cult?

Q. What is the difference between a cult and a denomination?
A. About two hundred years.

Most scholars no longer refer to any new or unorthodox religious movements as cults.

A cult is more than 200 years difference. Christianity was considered a cult 2000 years ago. Islam & Christianity are not cults; they are major world religions. A cult is usually a small band of people by comparison that has weird ceremonies that lead its members into a maze of deception that allows them to be manipulated and controlled. That is not to say it doesn't happen in major world religions, but that is the difference. We cannot call Islam or Christianity cults, but strange things can stem out of them that would have the makings of a cult