The World as a Test

[Wootah]

Hi all,

My understanding of Islam is that Allah created the world to test humans and those that passed would go to paradise.

On that understanding here are my issues with that belief system.

* Allah created evil.

Implicit in the world as a test is that Allah created man to die, created diseases, suffering and all the rest to test us. I have seen a video of a Muslim apologist in response to the 'problem of evil' go so far as to say that there is no such thing as evil.

* Is the test fair?

* Since Allah places a seal on people's hearts how is that fair on a person still undergoing the test?


Thanks,

Wootah

[sleepyhead]

Hello Wootah,

I'm not a Moslem. Both Christianity and Islam believe life is a test. What makes reincarnation appealing is that we believe life is a learning experience.

[Wootah]

Hello Wootah,

I'm not a Moslem. Both Christianity and Islam believe life is a test. What makes reincarnation appealing is that we believe life is a learning experience.

Your claim is simply not true of Christianity. Christians think the world was made good for our enjoyment and we corrupted it. God never intended to use creation to test us.

[bernee51]

Hello Wootah,

I'm not a Moslem. Both Christianity and Islam believe life is a test. What makes reincarnation appealing is that we believe life is a learning experience.

Your claim is simply not true of Christianity. Christians think the world was made good for our enjoyment and we corrupted it. God never intended to use creation to test us.

And a buddhist would think that the world just is. No intent.

Wootah, what was the question you wanted to ask re. buddhism?

[wonderer]

Hello Wootah,

I'm not a Moslem. Both Christianity and Islam believe life is a test. What makes reincarnation appealing is that we believe life is a learning experience.

Your claim is simply not true of Christianity. Christians think the world was made good for our enjoyment and we corrupted it. God never intended to use creation to test us.

It is true of Christianity as well. For example Christians who try to justify why God doesn't just create everyone 'good' so that nobody has to go to hell, say its because he wanted to test who would choose to follow him from their own 'free will'. Therefore, they are saying God is testing us in this life.
Think also of the many references in the New Testament epistles to suffering being a trial.

[wonderer]

Hi all,

My understanding of Islam is that Allah created the world to test humans and those that passed would go to paradise.

On that understanding here are my issues with that belief system.

* Allah created evil.

Implicit in the world as a test is that Allah created man to die, created diseases, suffering and all the rest to test us. I have seen a video of a Muslim apologist in response to the 'problem of evil' go so far as to say that there is no such thing as evil.

* Is the test fair?

* Since Allah places a seal on people's hearts how is that fair on a person still undergoing the test?


Thanks,

Wootah

Its similar with both religions, and equally unfair. It leads logically to the conclusion that in each case, the deity was responsible for evil coming into existence.

[Wootah]

Let's try to keep digression to a minimum. As far as I am aware this is a fundamental flaw in Islam and any claim to Allah being just. If you feel it warrants more discussion from the Christian perspective start a thread.

It is true of Christianity as well. For example Christians who try to justify why God doesn't just create everyone 'good' so that nobody has to go to hell, say its because he wanted to test who would choose to follow him from their own 'free will'. Therefore, they are saying God is testing us in this life.

I would answer we are not created good because then there would be no free will and with no free will there is no ability for us to love. Christianity does not hinge on considering this life a test, it can seem like one now but it was just created to be enjoyed. Islam does say this life is a test created as is by Allah and so it must justify that claim and the claim that Allah is just, especially when the Koran also claims that Allah seals people hearts thus preventing them from succeeding at the test.

Think also of the many references in the New Testament epistles to suffering being a trial.

The difference is that in Islam the world was created as a trial whereas we are asked to look at our suffering as a trial in Christianity.

Its similar with both religions, and equally unfair. It leads logically to the conclusion that in each case, the deity was responsible for evil coming into existence.

There is no part of the Christian theology that I am aware of that asserts the Christian has to regard life as a test in the way Muslims have to believe life is a test.

[wonderer]

Re digressing, you seem to be trying to show Islam in an unfavorable light compared to Christianity with this thread, so I think that needs challenging, as actually they are very similar in regard to this life being a test. In fact, I think both religions have the story of Adam and Eve being tested by God in the Garden of Eden as to whether they would choose good or evil.

[Wootah]

Re digressing, you seem to be trying to show Islam in an unfavorable light compared to Christianity with this thread, so I think that needs challenging, as actually they are very similar in regard to this life being a test. In fact, I think both religions have the story of Adam and Eve being tested by God in the Garden of Eden as to whether they would choose good or evil.

What part of my original post raised or suggested that Islam was unfavourable to Christianity with this thread? I think you are perceiving something that isn't there in the original post.

[wonderer]

Re digressing, you seem to be trying to show Islam in an unfavorable light compared to Christianity with this thread, so I think that needs challenging, as actually they are very similar in regard to this life being a test. In fact, I think both religions have the story of Adam and Eve being tested by God in the Garden of Eden as to whether they would choose good or evil.

What part of my original post raised or suggested that Islam was unfavourable to Christianity with this thread? I think you are perceiving something that isn't there in the original post.

You're right. I apologize for that.
I can't help noticing, however, that the criticisms you aim at Islam apply also to Christianity, so forgive me for mentioning that. For example where you say that Allah sealed people's hearts, that reminds me of how the Christian God also blinded certain people against the truth, and only called some.