Who was Cain/Cainan

[mitty]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

[S-word]

[mitty wrote].........."Those quotes are all very well and mean nothing to me since they are still only words written by bronze/iron age male writers about their world as they perceived it and without the benefit of our scientific knowledge to explain things that were imagined as supernatural to them. As for the real Jesus (not the mythical one) he was someone whose mother was a girl called Mary, whose parents were susposedly Joachime and Anne (Gospel of James) and his biological father was perhaps Heli's son, Joseph (Luke 3:23), and his stepfather was Jacob's son, Joseph (Matt 1:12-16). Jesus was largely ignored by all but a few, and he was even ignored by his own family (Matt 13:55-8) including his own mother. Surely if there was anything extraordinary about Jesus, then his own family particularly his own mother would have noticed and acknowledged it. But they didn't, and he was observed by eyewitnesses to probably have a drinking problem (Matt 11:19) and it is likely he had a homosexual relationship with a particular disciple (John 13:23-5 19:26 21:20 Mark 14:51-2 Mark's secret gospel)"

[S-word's Response]........All that you say here about the man Jesus, may or may not be true, it is purely speculation. I believe as do many of the RCC faith, that Mary was the daughter of Heli the Levite, who I personally believe, was the father of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus, who Heli the grand-father of Jesus, had sired to another woman, and that unbeknown to Mary or Joseph, who would have met at the house of their cousin, Elizabeth of the daughters of Levi, they had shared a common father.

I believe that Mary, who declares herself to be an obedient handmaid to our indwelling God, (For the kingdom of God is within you) and Joseph her half-brother, were spiritually attracted to each other before they realised that they were related, and that their act of obedience to the holy spirit, by which the promised child was conceived, was hidden in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits.

Isaac is a prototype of Jesus and like Jesus, Isaac was born of God's promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit. Both are seen as the seed that was promised to Abraham. Both Isaac and Jesus were the sons of parents who were both sired by the one Father. ‘Terah,’ is the father to both Abraham and Sarah, while ‘Heli,’ is the father of both Joseph and Mary. Both Mary and Sarah were informed by an angel that they would become Pregnant and bear the son of God's promise. Isaac was offered up as a sacrifice by his physical father, Jesus was offered up by his spiritual father, who descended upon him in the form of a dove as the voice was heard to say, ‘ you are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.� See the more ancient authorities

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved Son in who I am well pleased.�) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,: vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the Old Latin (a. b. c. ff.l), by Justin Martyr (AD. 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290) among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD.) Juvencus (AD. 330) Faustus (AD. 400) and Agustine.
All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.� Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art My Son. This day I have begotten thee.�

Three months before the unmarried Mary was found with child, she had told the angel that up until that point in time she was still a virgin. Once male semen has been introduced into the womb of woman, whether or not conception occurs with that mating, any child that she bears to any other man, will carry certain genetic characteristics, of that first male, for the two will have become one. Therefore it was imperative that Mary remain a virgin until she was united with the one who was chosen by the holy spirit to be the father of Jesus. For Mary had the same genetic inheritance as her half brother Joseph the son of Heli, which was their ancestral spirits of all those who had fallen asleep in righteousness and had been gathered to the living evolving spirit of Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham, after they had paid the blood price for any mistakes that they had made in their lives.

Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, gives the meaning of the Hebrew word “Almah,� which is used in Isaiah 7: 14; as, (Concealment: Unmarried woman.) when Mary, the obedient handmaid to her indwelling spirit, who had told the angel three months earlier that she was at that time still a virgin, after being told of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, she then went from her home town of Nazareth to a small town near Jerusalem to join with many other members of the family of Elizabeth the cousin of Mary who were of the daughters of Levi, where she must have met for the first time and was spiritually attracted to the biological father of Jesus, who had come from Cyprus. The act of obedience from which the child of God’s promise was conceived in the womb of the “Almah,� unmarried woman, was concealed in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of spirits.

Joseph, the biological father of Jesus, was the son of Heli the Levite, and the half brother to Mary. Joseph the son of Heli from the tribe of Levi, was about the 40th descendant of Nathan the son of Bathsheba and half brother to Solomon. Nathan the priest was the son of Uriah the Hittite who had become a member of the tribe of Levi by his marriage to Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel, the son of Obed-Edom the Levite.

The Lord our saviour made Jesus to be our high priest, and no high priest is chosen from any tribe other than the tribe of Levi.


Zechariah 12: 12-14; Each family in the land will mourn by itself: the family descended from David, (which includes all of his biological sons and their wives) by themselves. The family descended from Nathan and their wives, by themselves etc. this shows clearly that Nathan is not a biological son of David from the tribe of Judah. It is through Nathan, the stepson and possible son-in-law of David, that Jesus’ claim to the throne of David comes.

This Joseph the Levite who is the descendant of Nathan, came from Cyprus (Barnabas) and he had a half sister by the name Mary, who was the adopted mother of John, who Jesus had surnamed “Son of Thunder,� who is identified with the young John who was surnamed “Mark,� which means ‘Hammer,’ or “The Hammerer.� After the death of Jesus, this Joseph the Levite, took his half sister and young John up north into the land of Pamphylia, where today, in the town of Ephesus, the grave sites of Mary and John can still be visited.

A question to you Mitty: Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"

Where's the biblical reference that Jesus's mother was the daughter of Heli and therefore the half sister of Jesus's biological father. I guess that's feasible, since incestuous relationships seemed to be quite common in the early OT stories with the ultimate one being in the 2nd version of the creation story in Genesis chapter 2 where the adam (or first man) is bonking his identical twin sister (despite a minor problem of a stray Y chromosome) and there are the descriptions of the drunken orgies between Lot and his two daughters in a cave. Anyway, the only reference I know of about Jesus's maternal grandparents is in the Apocryophal Gospel of James indicating they were Joachime and Anne and not also his paternal grandparents Heli and his missus. Your version is certainly a case of keeping things in the family, but nowadays would perhaps result in a jail sentence particularly if Heli was actually Jesus's biological father instead of Mary's brother.

As for the Cainan/Cain story, the son of Arphaxad is another Cain/Cainan and descendant of the one in the genealogy in Genesis 4:17-8 and in the slightly different version of the genealogy in Genesis 5:10-4.

There are many references to Mary the daughter of Heli (Alexandria Helios), who was the grandfather of Jesus, which you can Google up if you are so inclined.

Alexandria Helios (Sun) is the twin brother to Cleopatra Selena (Moon), they were the children of Cleopatra and Mark Antony, who was killed by Octavian (The Emperor Augustus) in 31 BC, in their struggle for the throne of the assassinated Julius Caesar.

About 20 years after the death of Mark Antony, who was a close friend of Herod the Great, Herod Married a young Macedonian Jewess by the name of Cleopatra who bore to him Philip the nephew of Alexandra Helios (Heli) who was the father of Mary and Joseph the Levite from Cyprus (Macedonia) who were Philip's cousins; and Philip was ruler of the Macedonian territory of northern Galilee. It was to Philip who the Greek Macedonians came in search of Jesus.

The story of Lot and his daughters is a wonderful yarn about two young girls, who had just witnessed the destruction of their entire known world, where every man in their known world, according to their belief, had been killed.

In order to be the saviours of the human race, and knowing that their honourable father would never agree to have sex with his own daughters, they plied him with wine, and while he was in a state of deep intoxication, they raped him, saving the human race, 'in their eyes,' and thereby justifying their righteous actions. No person is judged on what they do, but on the reasons that their deeds were done.

The first humans were simply animals, until they decided to Judge for themselves that which was good or bad, instead of being like the animals from which they had evolved, who were obedient to the inner evolved wisdom of their ancestors from which they had evolved, or rather their indwelling animal instincts. That’s when sin entered the world, when the animal man, refused to obey their indwelling evolving ancestral spirit.

You also quote from the apocryphal gospel of James: well enough said on that subject.

[mitty wrote]….. Your version is certainly a case of keeping things in the family, but nowadays would perhaps result in a jail sentence particularly if Heli was actually Jesus's biological father instead of Mary's brother.

[S-word’s Response]…… don’t know what you are on about, apparently it is not only the bible that you have difficulty understanding, but you seem to also have trouble understanding the posts that you read in this forum. Heli the Levite is the Father of Mary and Joseph (Repeat, the FATHER of Mary and Joseph),who are both of the tribe of Levi from which every high priest is chosen, and Heli is the grandfather to Jesus who was chosen by God and made high priest with these words, See Hebrew 5: 5; “You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father.�

[mitty wrote]……. As for the Cainan/Cain story, the son of Arphaxad is another Cain/Cainan and descendant of the one in the genealogy in Genesis 4:17-8 and in the slightly different version of the genealogy in Genesis 5:10-4.

[S-word’s Response]…… As usual, you are so wrong mitty. �Kainam or Cainan:� The Book of Jubilees 8:1-2;�In the 29th Jubilee, in the first week, in the beginning thereof, Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasueja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she bore him a son in the third year of this week, and he called his name “Kainam/Cainan.

Verses 5 and 6;And in the 30th jubilee, in the second week, in the first year thereof, he “Kainam� took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year he begat a son, and he called his name “Shelah.�

Kainam/Cainan, was later to die, and Shelah was raised by his grandfather Arpachshad.

[mitty]

[mitty wrote].........."Those quotes are all very well and mean nothing to me since they are still only words written by bronze/iron age male writers about their world as they perceived it and without the benefit of our scientific knowledge to explain things that were imagined as supernatural to them. As for the real Jesus (not the mythical one) he was someone whose mother was a girl called Mary, whose parents were susposedly Joachime and Anne (Gospel of James) and his biological father was perhaps Heli's son, Joseph (Luke 3:23), and his stepfather was Jacob's son, Joseph (Matt 1:12-16). Jesus was largely ignored by all but a few, and he was even ignored by his own family (Matt 13:55-8) including his own mother. Surely if there was anything extraordinary about Jesus, then his own family particularly his own mother would have noticed and acknowledged it. But they didn't, and he was observed by eyewitnesses to probably have a drinking problem (Matt 11:19) and it is likely he had a homosexual relationship with a particular disciple (John 13:23-5 19:26 21:20 Mark 14:51-2 Mark's secret gospel)"

[S-word's Response]........All that you say here about the man Jesus, may or may not be true, it is purely speculation. I believe as do many of the RCC faith, that Mary was the daughter of Heli the Levite, who I personally believe, was the father of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus, who Heli the grand-father of Jesus, had sired to another woman, and that unbeknown to Mary or Joseph, who would have met at the house of their cousin, Elizabeth of the daughters of Levi, they had shared a common father.

I believe that Mary, who declares herself to be an obedient handmaid to our indwelling God, (For the kingdom of God is within you) and Joseph her half-brother, were spiritually attracted to each other before they realised that they were related, and that their act of obedience to the holy spirit, by which the promised child was conceived, was hidden in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits.

Isaac is a prototype of Jesus and like Jesus, Isaac was born of God's promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit. Both are seen as the seed that was promised to Abraham. Both Isaac and Jesus were the sons of parents who were both sired by the one Father. ‘Terah,’ is the father to both Abraham and Sarah, while ‘Heli,’ is the father of both Joseph and Mary. Both Mary and Sarah were informed by an angel that they would become Pregnant and bear the son of God's promise. Isaac was offered up as a sacrifice by his physical father, Jesus was offered up by his spiritual father, who descended upon him in the form of a dove as the voice was heard to say, ‘ you are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.� See the more ancient authorities

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved Son in who I am well pleased.�) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,: vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the Old Latin (a. b. c. ff.l), by Justin Martyr (AD. 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290) among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD.) Juvencus (AD. 330) Faustus (AD. 400) and Agustine.
All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.� Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art My Son. This day I have begotten thee.�

Three months before the unmarried Mary was found with child, she had told the angel that up until that point in time she was still a virgin. Once male semen has been introduced into the womb of woman, whether or not conception occurs with that mating, any child that she bears to any other man, will carry certain genetic characteristics, of that first male, for the two will have become one. Therefore it was imperative that Mary remain a virgin until she was united with the one who was chosen by the holy spirit to be the father of Jesus. For Mary had the same genetic inheritance as her half brother Joseph the son of Heli, which was their ancestral spirits of all those who had fallen asleep in righteousness and had been gathered to the living evolving spirit of Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham, after they had paid the blood price for any mistakes that they had made in their lives.

Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, gives the meaning of the Hebrew word “Almah,� which is used in Isaiah 7: 14; as, (Concealment: Unmarried woman.) when Mary, the obedient handmaid to her indwelling spirit, who had told the angel three months earlier that she was at that time still a virgin, after being told of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, she then went from her home town of Nazareth to a small town near Jerusalem to join with many other members of the family of Elizabeth the cousin of Mary who were of the daughters of Levi, where she must have met for the first time and was spiritually attracted to the biological father of Jesus, who had come from Cyprus. The act of obedience from which the child of God’s promise was conceived in the womb of the “Almah,� unmarried woman, was concealed in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of spirits.

Joseph, the biological father of Jesus, was the son of Heli the Levite, and the half brother to Mary. Joseph the son of Heli from the tribe of Levi, was about the 40th descendant of Nathan the son of Bathsheba and half brother to Solomon. Nathan the priest was the son of Uriah the Hittite who had become a member of the tribe of Levi by his marriage to Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel, the son of Obed-Edom the Levite.

The Lord our saviour made Jesus to be our high priest, and no high priest is chosen from any tribe other than the tribe of Levi.


Zechariah 12: 12-14; Each family in the land will mourn by itself: the family descended from David, (which includes all of his biological sons and their wives) by themselves. The family descended from Nathan and their wives, by themselves etc. this shows clearly that Nathan is not a biological son of David from the tribe of Judah. It is through Nathan, the stepson and possible son-in-law of David, that Jesus’ claim to the throne of David comes.

This Joseph the Levite who is the descendant of Nathan, came from Cyprus (Barnabas) and he had a half sister by the name Mary, who was the adopted mother of John, who Jesus had surnamed “Son of Thunder,� who is identified with the young John who was surnamed “Mark,� which means ‘Hammer,’ or “The Hammerer.� After the death of Jesus, this Joseph the Levite, took his half sister and young John up north into the land of Pamphylia, where today, in the town of Ephesus, the grave sites of Mary and John can still be visited.

A question to you Mitty: Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"

Where's the biblical reference that Jesus's mother was the daughter of Heli and therefore the half sister of Jesus's biological father. I guess that's feasible, since incestuous relationships seemed to be quite common in the early OT stories with the ultimate one being in the 2nd version of the creation story in Genesis chapter 2 where the adam (or first man) is bonking his identical twin sister (despite a minor problem of a stray Y chromosome) and there are the descriptions of the drunken orgies between Lot and his two daughters in a cave. Anyway, the only reference I know of about Jesus's maternal grandparents is in the Apocryophal Gospel of James indicating they were Joachime and Anne and not also his paternal grandparents Heli and his missus. Your version is certainly a case of keeping things in the family, but nowadays would perhaps result in a jail sentence particularly if Heli was actually Jesus's biological father instead of Mary's brother.

As for the Cainan/Cain story, the son of Arphaxad is another Cain/Cainan and descendant of the one in the genealogy in Genesis 4:17-8 and in the slightly different version of the genealogy in Genesis 5:10-4.

There are many references to Mary the daughter of Heli (Alexandria Helios), who was the grandfather of Jesus, which you can Google up if you are so inclined.

Alexandria Helios (Sun) is the twin brother to Cleopatra Selena (Moon), they were the children of Cleopatra and Mark Antony, who was killed by Octavian (The Emperor Augustus) in 31 BC, in their struggle for the throne of the assassinated Julius Caesar.

About 20 years after the death of Mark Antony, who was a close friend of Herod the Great, Herod Married a young Macedonian Jewess by the name of Cleopatra who bore to him Philip the nephew of Alexandra Helios (Heli) who was the father of Mary and Joseph the Levite from Cyprus (Macedonia) who were Philip's cousins; and Philip was ruler of the Macedonian territory of northern Galilee. It was to Philip who the Greek Macedonians came in search of Jesus.

The story of Lot and his daughters is a wonderful yarn about two young girls, who had just witnessed the destruction of their entire known world, where every man in their known world, according to their belief, had been killed.

In order to be the saviours of the human race, and knowing that their honourable father would never agree to have sex with his own daughters, they plied him with wine, and while he was in a state of deep intoxication, they raped him, saving the human race, 'in their eyes,' and thereby justifying their righteous actions. No person is judged on what they do, but on the reasons that their deeds were done.

The first humans were simply animals, until they decided to Judge for themselves that which was good or bad, instead of being like the animals from which they had evolved, who were obedient to the inner evolved wisdom of their ancestors from which they had evolved, or rather their indwelling animal instincts. That’s when sin entered the world, when the animal man, refused to obey their indwelling evolving ancestral spirit.

You also quote from the apocryphal gospel of James: well enough said on that subject.

[mitty wrote]….. Your version is certainly a case of keeping things in the family, but nowadays would perhaps result in a jail sentence particularly if Heli was actually Jesus's biological father instead of Mary's brother.

[S-word’s Response]…… don’t know what you are on about, apparently it is not only the bible that you have difficulty understanding, but you seem to also have trouble understanding the posts that you read in this forum. Heli the Levite is the Father of Mary and Joseph (Repeat, the FATHER of Mary and Joseph),who are both of the tribe of Levi from which every high priest is chosen, and Heli is the grandfather to Jesus who was chosen by God and made high priest with these words, See Hebrew 5: 5; “You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father.�

[mitty wrote]……. As for the Cainan/Cain story, the son of Arphaxad is another Cain/Cainan and descendant of the one in the genealogy in Genesis 4:17-8 and in the slightly different version of the genealogy in Genesis 5:10-4.

[S-word’s Response]…… As usual, you are so wrong mitty. �Kainam or Cainan:� The Book of Jubilees 8:1-2;�In the 29th Jubilee, in the first week, in the beginning thereof, Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasueja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she bore him a son in the third year of this week, and he called his name “Kainam/Cainan.

Verses 5 and 6;And in the 30th jubilee, in the second week, in the first year thereof, he “Kainam� took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year he begat a son, and he called his name “Shelah.�

Kainam/Cainan, was later to die, and Shelah was raised by his grandfather Arpachshad.

I prefer the version that Jesus's maternal grandparents were Joachime and Ann and his paternal grandparents were Heli and Mrs Heli. Your version of incest between brother and sister is even a bit too much for an unbeliever and skeptic like me. And I'm not quite sure how Cleopatra, Mark Antony and Julius Caesar got into the story of Jesus's birth. Anyway, it would all be just a guess, since none of witnesses to Mary's premarital affair would've been alive when even Mark's gospel was written decades later, so I suspose it's all about maternity being a matter of fact and paternity a matter of opinion, although a DNA paternity test back then would have answered all those questions.
As for a virgin birth or parthenogenesis, that's a nonsense, since the child would have been a female and not a male.

As for Lot and his daughters. It's highly unlikely that he wasn't a willing participant, and on more than just the two occasions, since it would be highly coincidental that the two daughters' menstrual cycles were so synchronised that they exactly ovulated on those two occasions and got up the duff with just one sexual session each. If Lot was as drunk as you suggest, then from personal experience, he would not only have had brewer's droop but be incapable of ejaculating as well. Perhaps the real truth of that story, is that Lot was running a brothel in Sodom with his daughters and wife, and why he tried to pimp his daughters to the crowd of concerned elders and younger men and boys in the town who were wondering what those two visitors were up to. The two visitors were perhaps customers being "entertained" by Mrs Lot and the daughters and subsequently they were all run out of town by the irate elders. Given the drunken orgies in the cave I wouldn't be surprised if Lot didn't inappropriately interfere with his daughters when young girls as well.

I wasn't referring to the second Cain/Cainan (Noah's g grandson) but the first one who was listed as the adam's and the eve's first born in the chapter 4 version of the genealogy but as their great grandson in the chapter 5 version suggesting that the adam (first man) in the chapter 4 version was Seth's grandson.

[S-word]

[mitty wrote]…… I prefer the version that Jesus's maternal grandparents were Joachime and Ann and his paternal grandparents were Heli and Mrs Heli.

[S=word’s Response]…..Apparently it is not only the bible that you have difficulty understanding, but you also have trouble understanding the posts that you read in this forum. and you seem to have no understanding of what you yourself write.
First, I would ask you, “how can Joachime be a MATERNAL grandparent of Jesus?� You say that Joachime and Ann are the maternal grandparents of Jesus, then you go on to say that Heli and his wife are the paternal grandparents of Jesus. Do you honestly know what you are saying?

[mitty wrote]…… Your version of incest between brother and sister is even a bit too much for an unbeliever and skeptic like me.

[S=word’s Response]…..I can understand how it would be too much for unbelieving skeptics such as yourself, to accept that “Isaac� the child of God’s promise to Abraham, who was the prototype of Jesus, and who was born according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, was born of Abraham and his half sister Sarah, who were both sired by Terah and born of two different mothers.

[mitty wrote]…… And I'm not quite sure how Cleopatra, Mark Antony and Julius Caesar got into the story of Jesus's birth.

[S=word’s Response]…..Because Jesus was the grandson of Alexandra Helios (Heli,) and Heli became a member of the tribe of Levi when he was married to a Zadokian Levite daughter, Hannah (Anne). Alexandra Helios is the male twin born to Greek Ptolemaic queen Cleopatra VII of Egypt and Mark Antony from Macedonia, and is the brother to the young “Cleopatra� (A Macedonian name) the wife of Herod the Great and mother to Philip the ruler of the Macedonian territory of northern Galilee.

[mitty wrote]…… As for a virgin birth or parthenogenesis, that's a nonsense, since the child would have been a female and not a male.

[S=word’s Response]….. The false story of the virgin birth was introduced by the Universal church that was established by the non-christian king Constantine in 325 AD, and has nothing to do with biblical truths.

[mitty wrote]…… I wasn't referring to the second Cain/Cainan (Noah's g grandson) but the first one who was listed as the adam's and the eve's first born in the chapter 4 version of the genealogy but as their great grandson in the chapter 5 version suggesting that the adam (first man) in the chapter 4 version was Seth's grandson.

[S=word’s Response]…..I see, so what you are saying, is that you had no understanding of the question that was put to you, which is as follows: A question to you Mitty: Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"
It seems strange that in answering this question, you referred to another Cainan other than the one mentioned in Luke 3: 36.

[mitty wrote]…… Perhaps the real truth of that story, is that Lot was running a brothel in Sodom with his daughters and wife, and why he tried to pimp his daughters to the crowd of concerned elders and younger men and boys in the town who were wondering what those two visitors were up to. The two visitors were perhaps customers being "entertained" by Mrs Lot and the daughters and subsequently they were all run out of town by the irate elders. Given the drunken orgies in the cave I wouldn't be surprised if Lot didn't inappropriately interfere with his daughters when young girls as well.

[S=word’s Response]….. By using verbal filth such as that, I would suggest that you are sailing pretty close to the wind that will blow you right out of this Bible study section, or even this religion forum itself, if that type of filth is continued.

[mitty]

[mitty wrote]…… I prefer the version that Jesus's maternal grandparents were Joachime and Ann and his paternal grandparents were Heli and Mrs Heli.

[S=word’s Response]…..Apparently it is not only the bible that you have difficulty understanding, but you also have trouble understanding the posts that you read in this forum. and you seem to have no understanding of what you yourself write.
First, I would ask you, “how can Joachime be a MATERNAL grandparent of Jesus?� You say that Joachime and Ann are the maternal grandparents of Jesus, then you go on to say that Heli and his wife are the paternal grandparents of Jesus. Do you honestly know what you are saying?

[mitty wrote]…… Your version of incest between brother and sister is even a bit too much for an unbeliever and skeptic like me.

[S=word’s Response]…..I can understand how it would be too much for unbelieving skeptics such as yourself, to accept that “Isaac� the child of God’s promise to Abraham, who was the prototype of Jesus, and who was born according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, was born of Abraham and his half sister Sarah, who were both sired by Terah and born of two different mothers.

[mitty wrote]…… And I'm not quite sure how Cleopatra, Mark Antony and Julius Caesar got into the story of Jesus's birth.

[S=word’s Response]…..Because Jesus was the grandson of Alexandra Helios (Heli,) and Heli became a member of the tribe of Levi when he was married to a Zadokian Levite daughter, Hannah (Anne). Alexandra Helios is the male twin born to Greek Ptolemaic queen Cleopatra VII of Egypt and Mark Antony from Macedonia, and is the brother to the young “Cleopatra� (A Macedonian name) the wife of Herod the Great and mother to Philip the ruler of the Macedonian territory of northern Galilee.

[mitty wrote]…… As for a virgin birth or parthenogenesis, that's a nonsense, since the child would have been a female and not a male.

[S=word’s Response]….. The false story of the virgin birth was introduced by the Universal church that was established by the non-christian king Constantine in 325 AD, and has nothing to do with biblical truths.

[mitty wrote]…… I wasn't referring to the second Cain/Cainan (Noah's g grandson) but the first one who was listed as the adam's and the eve's first born in the chapter 4 version of the genealogy but as their great grandson in the chapter 5 version suggesting that the adam (first man) in the chapter 4 version was Seth's grandson.

[S=word’s Response]…..I see, so what you are saying, is that you had no understanding of the question that was put to you, which is as follows: A question to you Mitty: Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"
It seems strange that in answering this question, you referred to another Cainan other than the one mentioned in Luke 3: 36.

[mitty wrote]…… Perhaps the real truth of that story, is that Lot was running a brothel in Sodom with his daughters and wife, and why he tried to pimp his daughters to the crowd of concerned elders and younger men and boys in the town who were wondering what those two visitors were up to. The two visitors were perhaps customers being "entertained" by Mrs Lot and the daughters and subsequently they were all run out of town by the irate elders. Given the drunken orgies in the cave I wouldn't be surprised if Lot didn't inappropriately interfere with his daughters when young girls as well.

[S=word’s Response]….. By using verbal filth such as that, I would suggest that you are sailing pretty close to the wind that will blow you right out of this Bible study section, or even this religion forum itself, if that type of filth is continued.

The Apocryphal gospel of James indicates Jesus's maternal grandparents were Joachime and Ann, and Luke 3:23 suggests his paternal grandfather may have been Heli. But if you still want to say that Jesus's biological mother and biological father were siblings then without DNA proof that's as good as any guess after 2000 years or so.

I was referring to the Cain-Cainan mentioned in Luke 3:37, Genesis chapter 4 and Genesis 5:9 and not the Cain-Cainan mentioned in Luke 3:36 who I can't see mentioned as a son of Arphaxed in Genesis 10:24 or Genesis 11:12-13. So perhaps just another one of the many many biblical contradictions and inconsistencies and scientific untruths, and like the difference in Luke 3:33 compared to Matthew 1:3-4. From doing my own family genealogy, it's easy to see how these errors happen even with written records without considering the oral recollections of old aunts etc.

What "verbal filth" are you talking about in my description of the Lot family as not being exactly virtuous and certainly not up my standards of personal morality and which today would be regarded as jailable offences. But then, they're not as bad as the raping, murdering, adulterous, polygamistic, bisexual David who despite all that, still regarded himself as a son of Yahveh (Ps 2:7). But even that pales into insignificance beside the crimes against humanity committed by Joshua and his band of thugs as they raped, pillaged and murdered including children in similar fashion to such despots as Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, Hitler etc.

[S-word]

[mitty wrote]…… I prefer the version that Jesus's maternal grandparents were Joachime and Ann and his paternal grandparents were Heli and Mrs Heli.

[S=word’s Response]…..Apparently it is not only the bible that you have difficulty understanding, but you also have trouble understanding the posts that you read in this forum. and you seem to have no understanding of what you yourself write.
First, I would ask you, “how can Joachime be a MATERNAL grandparent of Jesus?� You say that Joachime and Ann are the maternal grandparents of Jesus, then you go on to say that Heli and his wife are the paternal grandparents of Jesus. Do you honestly know what you are saying?

[mitty wrote]…… Your version of incest between brother and sister is even a bit too much for an unbeliever and skeptic like me.

[S=word’s Response]…..I can understand how it would be too much for unbelieving skeptics such as yourself, to accept that “Isaac� the child of God’s promise to Abraham, who was the prototype of Jesus, and who was born according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, was born of Abraham and his half sister Sarah, who were both sired by Terah and born of two different mothers.

[mitty wrote]…… And I'm not quite sure how Cleopatra, Mark Antony and Julius Caesar got into the story of Jesus's birth.

[S=word’s Response]…..Because Jesus was the grandson of Alexandra Helios (Heli,) and Heli became a member of the tribe of Levi when he was married to a Zadokian Levite daughter, Hannah (Anne). Alexandra Helios is the male twin born to Greek Ptolemaic queen Cleopatra VII of Egypt and Mark Antony from Macedonia, and is the brother to the young “Cleopatra� (A Macedonian name) the wife of Herod the Great and mother to Philip the ruler of the Macedonian territory of northern Galilee.

[mitty wrote]…… As for a virgin birth or parthenogenesis, that's a nonsense, since the child would have been a female and not a male.

[S=word’s Response]….. The false story of the virgin birth was introduced by the Universal church that was established by the non-christian king Constantine in 325 AD, and has nothing to do with biblical truths.

[mitty wrote]…… I wasn't referring to the second Cain/Cainan (Noah's g grandson) but the first one who was listed as the adam's and the eve's first born in the chapter 4 version of the genealogy but as their great grandson in the chapter 5 version suggesting that the adam (first man) in the chapter 4 version was Seth's grandson.

[S=word’s Response]…..I see, so what you are saying, is that you had no understanding of the question that was put to you, which is as follows: A question to you Mitty: Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"
It seems strange that in answering this question, you referred to another Cainan other than the one mentioned in Luke 3: 36.

[mitty wrote]…… Perhaps the real truth of that story, is that Lot was running a brothel in Sodom with his daughters and wife, and why he tried to pimp his daughters to the crowd of concerned elders and younger men and boys in the town who were wondering what those two visitors were up to. The two visitors were perhaps customers being "entertained" by Mrs Lot and the daughters and subsequently they were all run out of town by the irate elders. Given the drunken orgies in the cave I wouldn't be surprised if Lot didn't inappropriately interfere with his daughters when young girls as well.

[S=word’s Response]….. By using verbal filth such as that, I would suggest that you are sailing pretty close to the wind that will blow you right out of this Bible study section, or even this religion forum itself, if that type of filth is continued.

The Apocryphal gospel of James indicates Jesus's maternal grandparents were Joachime and Ann, and Luke 3:23 suggests his paternal grandfather may have been Heli. But if you still want to say that Jesus's biological mother and biological father were siblings then without DNA proof that's as good as any guess after 2000 years or so.

I was referring to the Cain-Cainan mentioned in Luke 3:37, Genesis chapter 4 and Genesis 5:9 and not the Cain-Cainan mentioned in Luke 3:36 who I can't see mentioned as a son of Arphaxed in Genesis 10:24 or Genesis 11:12-13. So perhaps just another one of the many many biblical contradictions and inconsistencies and scientific untruths, and like the difference in Luke 3:33 compared to Matthew 1:3-4. From doing my own family genealogy, it's easy to see how these errors happen even with written records without considering the oral recollections of old aunts etc.

What "verbal filth" are you talking about in my description of the Lot family as not being exactly virtuous and certainly not up my standards of personal morality and which today would be regarded as jailable offences. But then, they're not as bad as the raping, murdering, adulterous, polygamistic, bisexual David who despite all that, still regarded himself as a son of Yahveh (Ps 2:7). But even that pales into insignificance beside the crimes against humanity committed by Joshua and his band of thugs as they raped, pillaged and murdered including children in similar fashion to such despots as Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, Hitler etc.

[mitty wrote]…… The Apocryphal gospel of James indicates Jesus's maternal grandparents were Joachime and Ann, and Luke 3:23 suggests his paternal grandfather may have been Heli.

[S=word’s Response]…..Maternal=Mother, again I ask you, how can the male “Joachime be a maternal grandparent of Jesus. And Luke 3:23; does not SUGGEST his paternal grandfather MAY have been Heli: Luke 3: 23; states categorically that Heli IS the parental grandfather of Jesus.

[mitty wrote]…… I was referring to the Cain-Cainan mentioned in Luke 3:37, Genesis chapter 4 and Genesis 5:9 and not the Cain-Cainan mentioned in Luke 3:36 who I can't see mentioned as a son of Arphaxed in Genesis 10:24 or Genesis 11:12-13.

[S=word’s Response]….. Nor will you see him mentioned in 1st Chronicles 1: 18; but he is mentioned in the Book of Jubilees from which book Luke quotes. The Cainan/Kenan mentioned in Luke 3: 37; and genesis 5: 9; who is a descendant of Seth the son of Adam, can in no way be identified with Cain the brother of Abel, whom Seth, the ancestor of Cainan, replaced as a son in the image of his father. And the Cainan/Kenan of Genesis 5: 9; who is a 9th generational ancestor of Arpachshad, cannot be identified with Cainan/Kainam the son of Arpachshad and father of Shelah.

In post #9 if you would care to check, I asked the question,� Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"

In post #10 you responded with this answer, “As for the Cainan/Cain story, the son of Arphaxad is another Cain/Cainan and descendant of the one in the genealogy in Genesis 4:17-8 and in the slightly different version of the genealogy in Genesis 5:10-4�

[S=word’s Response]…..Cainan/Kainam, is not a descendant of Cains genetic line recorded in Genesis 4. Cain was the brother of Abel whom he murdered, and Seth was the son of Adam who replaced his dead son Abel. Cainan/Kainam the son of Arpachshad and the father of Shelah is not mentioned in the compilation of books that is the Old Testament, and is not found in the bible until it is seen in Luke 3: 36; who quotes from the Book of Jubilees.

[mitty wrote]…… So perhaps just another one of the many many biblical contradictions and inconsistencies and scientific untruths, and like the difference in Luke 3:33 compared to Matthew 1:3-4. From doing my own family genealogy, it's easy to see how these errors happen even with written records without considering the oral recollections of old aunts etc.

The genealogy of Jesus the son of Joseph the son of Heli from the tribe of Levi, is found in the gospel of Luke, Matthew is the genealogy of Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, who had no sexual relations with Mary until after the first of her three biological sons had been born.

Matthew 1: 3-4; speaks of Hezron the father of Ram the father of Amminadab/Hur, but Ram died before he had sired a son, and although Amminadab is classified as the son of Ram, he was actually sired by Caleb, the younger brother of Ram, who obeyed the ancient Jewish law that demanded that a brother sire a child for his dead brothers posterity.

So Matthew is correct in saying that Amminadab/Hur is the son of Ram, but he is actually the biological child of Caleb and Ephrath the widow of Hezrons’ dead and childless son “Ram.� And it is written there that Hezron was dead in Caleb/Ephrath, or the genetic line of Hezron would flow down through Amminadab/Hur, the child of Caleb/Ephrath. In the genealogy of Jesus in the gospel of Luke, the two names between Hezron and Amminadab/Hur actually stand for Ram and Caleb, two fathers to the one child Amminadab/Hur the father of Nashon, who was the brother of Elisheba the daughter of Hur/Amminadab who married Aaron.


[mitty wrote]…… What "verbal filth" are you talking about in my description of the Lot family as not being exactly virtuous and certainly not up my standards of personal morality and which today would be regarded as jailable offences. But then, they're not as bad as the raping, murdering, adulterous, polygamistic, bisexual David who despite all that, still regarded himself as a son of Yahveh (Ps 2:7). But even that pales into insignificance beside the crimes against humanity committed by Joshua and his band of thugs as they raped, pillaged and murdered including children in similar fashion to such despots as Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, Hitler etc

[S=word’s Response]…..I will let others judge whether your words are fit to be broadcast across the pages of the Bible study section of this religion forum.

[mitty]

[mitty wrote].........."Those quotes are all very well and mean nothing to me since they are still only words written by bronze/iron age male writers about their world as they perceived it and without the benefit of our scientific knowledge to explain things that were imagined as supernatural to them. As for the real Jesus (not the mythical one) he was someone whose mother was a girl called Mary, whose parents were susposedly Joachime and Anne (Gospel of James) and his biological father was perhaps Heli's son, Joseph (Luke 3:23), and his stepfather was Jacob's son, Joseph (Matt 1:12-16). Jesus was largely ignored by all but a few, and he was even ignored by his own family (Matt 13:55-8) including his own mother. Surely if there was anything extraordinary about Jesus, then his own family particularly his own mother would have noticed and acknowledged it. But they didn't, and he was observed by eyewitnesses to probably have a drinking problem (Matt 11:19) and it is likely he had a homosexual relationship with a particular disciple (John 13:23-5 19:26 21:20 Mark 14:51-2 Mark's secret gospel)"

[S-word's Response]........All that you say here about the man Jesus, may or may not be true, it is purely speculation. I believe as do many of the RCC faith, that Mary was the daughter of Heli the Levite, who I personally believe, was the father of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus, who Heli the grand-father of Jesus, had sired to another woman, and that unbeknown to Mary or Joseph, who would have met at the house of their cousin, Elizabeth of the daughters of Levi, they had shared a common father.

I believe that Mary, who declares herself to be an obedient handmaid to our indwelling God, (For the kingdom of God is within you) and Joseph her half-brother, were spiritually attracted to each other before they realised that they were related, and that their act of obedience to the holy spirit, by which the promised child was conceived, was hidden in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits.

Isaac is a prototype of Jesus and like Jesus, Isaac was born of God's promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit. Both are seen as the seed that was promised to Abraham. Both Isaac and Jesus were the sons of parents who were both sired by the one Father. ‘Terah,’ is the father to both Abraham and Sarah, while ‘Heli,’ is the father of both Joseph and Mary. Both Mary and Sarah were informed by an angel that they would become Pregnant and bear the son of God's promise. Isaac was offered up as a sacrifice by his physical father, Jesus was offered up by his spiritual father, who descended upon him in the form of a dove as the voice was heard to say, ‘ you are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.� See the more ancient authorities

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved Son in who I am well pleased.�) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,: vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the Old Latin (a. b. c. ff.l), by Justin Martyr (AD. 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290) among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD.) Juvencus (AD. 330) Faustus (AD. 400) and Agustine.
All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.� Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art My Son. This day I have begotten thee.�

Three months before the unmarried Mary was found with child, she had told the angel that up until that point in time she was still a virgin. Once male semen has been introduced into the womb of woman, whether or not conception occurs with that mating, any child that she bears to any other man, will carry certain genetic characteristics, of that first male, for the two will have become one. Therefore it was imperative that Mary remain a virgin until she was united with the one who was chosen by the holy spirit to be the father of Jesus. For Mary had the same genetic inheritance as her half brother Joseph the son of Heli, which was their ancestral spirits of all those who had fallen asleep in righteousness and had been gathered to the living evolving spirit of Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham, after they had paid the blood price for any mistakes that they had made in their lives.

Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, gives the meaning of the Hebrew word “Almah,� which is used in Isaiah 7: 14; as, (Concealment: Unmarried woman.) when Mary, the obedient handmaid to her indwelling spirit, who had told the angel three months earlier that she was at that time still a virgin, after being told of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, she then went from her home town of Nazareth to a small town near Jerusalem to join with many other members of the family of Elizabeth the cousin of Mary who were of the daughters of Levi, where she must have met for the first time and was spiritually attracted to the biological father of Jesus, who had come from Cyprus. The act of obedience from which the child of God’s promise was conceived in the womb of the “Almah,� unmarried woman, was concealed in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of spirits.

Joseph, the biological father of Jesus, was the son of Heli the Levite, and the half brother to Mary. Joseph the son of Heli from the tribe of Levi, was about the 40th descendant of Nathan the son of Bathsheba and half brother to Solomon. Nathan the priest was the son of Uriah the Hittite who had become a member of the tribe of Levi by his marriage to Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel, the son of Obed-Edom the Levite.

The Lord our saviour made Jesus to be our high priest, and no high priest is chosen from any tribe other than the tribe of Levi.


Zechariah 12: 12-14; Each family in the land will mourn by itself: the family descended from David, (which includes all of his biological sons and their wives) by themselves. The family descended from Nathan and their wives, by themselves etc. this shows clearly that Nathan is not a biological son of David from the tribe of Judah. It is through Nathan, the stepson and possible son-in-law of David, that Jesus’ claim to the throne of David comes.

This Joseph the Levite who is the descendant of Nathan, came from Cyprus (Barnabas) and he had a half sister by the name Mary, who was the adopted mother of John, who Jesus had surnamed “Son of Thunder,� who is identified with the young John who was surnamed “Mark,� which means ‘Hammer,’ or “The Hammerer.� After the death of Jesus, this Joseph the Levite, took his half sister and young John up north into the land of Pamphylia, where today, in the town of Ephesus, the grave sites of Mary and John can still be visited.

A question to you Mitty: Who is the Cainan, mentioned in Luke 3: 36; who is said to be the son of Arpachshad, and the father of Shelah? See Genesis 11: 10; When Arpachshad was 35 years old, he had a son, "Shelah. 1st Chronicles 1: 18; Arpachard was the Father of Shelah. Again I ask the question: "Who is the Cainan of Luke 3: 36.?"

Where's the biblical reference that Jesus's mother was the daughter of Heli and therefore the half sister of Jesus's biological father. I guess that's feasible, since incestuous relationships seemed to be quite common in the early OT stories with the ultimate one being in the 2nd version of the creation story in Genesis chapter 2 where the adam (or first man) is bonking his identical twin sister (despite a minor problem of a stray Y chromosome) and there are the descriptions of the drunken orgies between Lot and his two daughters in a cave. Anyway, the only reference I know of about Jesus's maternal grandparents is in the Apocryophal Gospel of James indicating they were Joachime and Anne and not also his paternal grandparents Heli and his missus. Your version is certainly a case of keeping things in the family, but nowadays would perhaps result in a jail sentence particularly if Heli was actually Jesus's biological father instead of Mary's brother.

As for the Cainan/Cain story, the son of Arphaxad is another Cain/Cainan and descendant of the one in the genealogy in Genesis 4:17-8 and in the slightly different version of the genealogy in Genesis 5:10-4.

There are many references to Mary the daughter of Heli (Alexandria Helios), who was the grandfather of Jesus, which you can Google up if you are so inclined.

Alexandria Helios (Sun) is the twin brother to Cleopatra Selena (Moon), they were the children of Cleopatra and Mark Antony, who was killed by Octavian (The Emperor Augustus) in 31 BC, in their struggle for the throne of the assassinated Julius Caesar.

About 20 years after the death of Mark Antony, who was a close friend of Herod the Great, Herod Married a young Macedonian Jewess by the name of Cleopatra who bore to him Philip the nephew of Alexandra Helios (Heli) who was the father of Mary and Joseph the Levite from Cyprus (Macedonia) who were Philip's cousins; and Philip was ruler of the Macedonian territory of northern Galilee. It was to Philip who the Greek Macedonians came in search of Jesus.

The story of Lot and his daughters is a wonderful yarn about two young girls, who had just witnessed the destruction of their entire known world, where every man in their known world, according to their belief, had been killed.

In order to be the saviours of the human race, and knowing that their honourable father would never agree to have sex with his own daughters, they plied him with wine, and while he was in a state of deep intoxication, they raped him, saving the human race, 'in their eyes,' and thereby justifying their righteous actions. No person is judged on what they do, but on the reasons that their deeds were done.

The first humans were simply animals, until they decided to Judge for themselves that which was good or bad, instead of being like the animals from which they had evolved, who were obedient to the inner evolved wisdom of their ancestors from which they had evolved, or rather their indwelling animal instincts. That’s when sin entered the world, when the animal man, refused to obey their indwelling evolving ancestral spirit.

You also quote from the apocryphal gospel of James: well enough said on that subject.

[mitty wrote]….. Your version is certainly a case of keeping things in the family, but nowadays would perhaps result in a jail sentence particularly if Heli was actually Jesus's biological father instead of Mary's brother.

[S-word’s Response]…… don’t know what you are on about, apparently it is not only the bible that you have difficulty understanding, but you seem to also have trouble understanding the posts that you read in this forum. Heli the Levite is the Father of Mary and Joseph (Repeat, the FATHER of Mary and Joseph),who are both of the tribe of Levi from which every high priest is chosen, and Heli is the grandfather to Jesus who was chosen by God and made high priest with these words, See Hebrew 5: 5; “You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father.�

[mitty wrote]……. As for the Cainan/Cain story, the son of Arphaxad is another Cain/Cainan and descendant of the one in the genealogy in Genesis 4:17-8 and in the slightly different version of the genealogy in Genesis 5:10-4.

[S-word’s Response]…… As usual, you are so wrong mitty. �Kainam or Cainan:� The Book of Jubilees 8:1-2;�In the 29th Jubilee, in the first week, in the beginning thereof, Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasueja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she bore him a son in the third year of this week, and he called his name “Kainam/Cainan.

Verses 5 and 6;And in the 30th jubilee, in the second week, in the first year thereof, he “Kainam� took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year he begat a son, and he called his name “Shelah.�

Kainam/Cainan, was later to die, and Shelah was raised by his grandfather Arpachshad.

Fine by me if you hypothesize that Heli was both Jesus's maternal and paternal grandfather and that the writer of James Gospel got Mary's parentage wrong. I thought such an incestual ancestry mightn't go down too well with the faithful though.

And which is the correct genealogy as regards the ancestory of Amminadeb (Matthew or Luke) since both can't be correct with Matthew's being Amminadab, Ram, Hezron, Perez, Judah and Luke's being Amminadeb, Admin, Arni, Hezron Perez, Judah. Or do you hypothesize that both the authors of Luke and Matthew got it wrong.

So you are hypothesizing that Jesus's ancestry is tied up with Cleopatra and the Egyptian pharoahs and the Roman emporers. That Heli was the son of Antony and Cleopatra and not the son of Matthat as in Luke's genealogy. Wow, and I thought he was just a simple carpenter's stepson who had a mid-life crisis and thought he could stop the Roman occupation but failed like many others. The mind boggles over that hypothesis. So how did the author's of Luke's genealogy get it so wrong. I guess the Gershwin song has plenty of truth in it, eh when it says "It ain't necessarily so, the things that you're liable to read in the bible, it ain't necessarily so".

[Cain]

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

The eating of the Forbidden Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a metaphor in that this encounter of Eve and the Serpent, the consumption of the fruit is that of the Prince of Darkness, then known as Belial, planting the seed in Eve with what will be her first child, Cain.

For Belial knew that in order to save Mankind from the chains of this jealous and violent god, that Man must possess the Gnosis enabling Him towards Apotheosis "then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods," (GEN 3:5)

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

For this Cain would take the life of Abel in defiance of God, and set himself apart from all of God and his Creation, to walk in isolation that of his own Path, the Left Hand Path.

And in hindsight, God wrought with guilt over instigating Abel's death, grants Cain amnesty.
In time Cain and his wife gave birth to Enoch and Created the city of Enoch all its inhabitants. Again, we see the metaphor for the Left Hand Path, of separating from God's Will and Creation and embracing Our Will and designing our own Creation (City of Enoch).

[mitty]

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

The eating of the Forbidden Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a metaphor in that this encounter of Eve and the Serpent, the consumption of the fruit is that of the Prince of Darkness, then known as Belial, planting the seed in Eve with what will be her first child, Cain.

For Belial knew that in order to save Mankind from the chains of this jealous and violent god, that Man must possess the Gnosis enabling Him towards Apotheosis "then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods," (GEN 3:5)

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

For this Cain would take the life of Abel in defiance of God, and set himself apart from all of God and his Creation, to walk in isolation that of his own Path, the Left Hand Path.

And in hindsight, God wrought with guilt over instigating Abel's death, grants Cain amnesty.
In time Cain and his wife gave birth to Enoch and Created the city of Enoch all its inhabitants. Again, we see the metaphor for the Left Hand Path, of separating from God's Will and Creation and embracing Our Will and designing our own Creation (City of Enoch).

I can go along with the story in Genesis 4 just being a metaphor and a fictional story which is mixed up with another story and genealogy in chapter 5 where sequences and generations are a bit out and where ages are measured in more easily observed lunar cycles and not solar years, so that in the chapter 5 version, the chapter 5 life giver (or eve) gave birth to her first born at aged 11 solar years rather than a nonsense 130 (Gen 5:3), and Noah's wife gave birth to Shem at aged 42 rather than a ridiculous 500 (Gen 5:32) assuming she was of similar age to Noah, and Methusael/Methuselah lived to an old age of 82 instead of an absurd 969 (Gen 5:27).

[S-word]

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.� ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

The English word “Generation,� is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth� which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,� or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Origen, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. Every universe from the first to the last, from the smallest to the greatest, which have been created throughout the aeons of eternity, still exist in their independent Space-Time positions within the eternal and boundless cosmos.

The New international Version, the Scofield Referrence Bible, and the Companion Bible, all note that the phase in Genesis 1: 2; The earth was formless and void (Having neither shape or mass) should be correctly translated, “The earth became without form and void.� The Hebrew word “Hayah� translated “was,� means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be.� (Vines Complete Expository of Old and New Testament Words, 1985. “To Be.�)

When this universe collapses and is condensed once more into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin, it returns to THE Beginning, before space and time began, not to a new beginning, but to THE beginning.

The first time that one reads the bible from Genesis to revelation, they have little or no understanding of the beginning. By the time they reach Revelation they have gained some insight into the genesis story and next time they can enter into the “WORD� on a deeper level, whereupon a much greater revelation of the BEGINNING is received, which allows them to enter into the unfathomable depths of the “WORD� at an even deeper level etc, etc.

One then begins to understand the Biblical revelation of an eternal cyclic universe that begins as an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, which singularity expands to become the universal body which is all that is. A body which is then condensed back into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of “The Beginning:� not to some new beginning, but “THE BEGINNING�, before the space and time of this visible three dimension came to be.

The student will eventually understand that Mankind is not the end of the evolutionary or growth process within this expansion, or should I say, “Period of universal activity,� and that a new species of non-physical beings, which comes from the body of mankind (The Son of Man) is yet to evolve/grow.

The prototype of the new species that will dwell on earth among mankind and which evolves from mankind, is Jesus of Nazareth who appeared to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus in his new body of glorious and blinding light. And as we have born the image of the first Adam, so shall a selected few share the image of the second Adam.

The story of “Cain the Shining One� and his younger brother Abel, is a very, very, very condensed story of a previous cycle of universal activity, wherein the Son of Man (The Shining Ones) had evolved and they were over righteous and destroyed their younger brother Abel.

These are the sons of God who came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of Seth in the next period of universal activity. (The name “JARED� carries the meaning, “DESCENDING) and we read that it was in the days of Jared (Descending) that the Sons of God abandoned their own original habitat and came down and bore sons from the daughters of man. We also read in the Testament of Reuben, that they could not manifest themselves in visible form, but would possess the bodies of the men, while they were with their wives and from there they were able to pass on their issue, and Giants were born on the earth.

Jared was the physical Father of Enoch, but Cain the Shining one was the spiritual father who possessed the body of Jared, and Enoch is the only man in scripture to have received the gift of eternal life. The only exception of all mankind to be carried to heaven and anointed by the Godhead to the ever evolving universal body, where he received the gift of eternal life when he was translated from a corruptible body of matter, into an incorruptible body of brilliant and blinding light.

To win the victory, one does not believe that the stories in the bible are all literally true, but one must believe that within those stories the truth is revealed.

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives are all descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad. Enoch is the only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of all time and witness the collapse of the universal body into the Great Abyss (Black Hole) which is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.

It is He, the Most High in the creation, the “Son of Man� The light and life of the LOGOS, which is all the gathered universal information (The Word) that expresses itself as another physical universal body in the image and likeness of the body in which our Father was the supreme personality of Godhead to have developed in the living universal body, and it was HE, who in the Beginning was the light and the life within the Logos (The Gathered information/spirit, that was God.)

Our Father, “The Son of Man,� who is the Godhead within the Logos, then dies in the process of involution, in order, that from the gathered information that is He, the resurrected universal body that had descended into the seemingly bottomless pit would rise again in the image of the previous body in which HE had developed.

When the Logos has emptied itself and the world and all its life forms are recreated, and the Logos has become mankind once again, the light of Man who is the life of the Logos came unto his own, but his own received him not, yet to as many as received him, to them gave He the power to become the Sons of God.

John, was not that Light, but came to bear witness to the light of Man, who was the new living controlling spirit in the body of Adam (Mankind) that rose from the baptismal waters of the earth in which the body of the old godhead Adam, was submerged. It was our heavenly father, (The Son of Man) who told John, that the man upon whom he saw HIS spirit descend, was the one through whom he would reveal himself and the awesome sacrifice that He makes for the sinful body in which HE, ‘The Son of Man’ had developed.

Enoch, whose life was ransomed by the righteous blood of Abel, which blood could redeem only one man, was the only man who received the lot of eternal life, and it is the deathless spirit of Enoch, which is the indwelling ancestral Father of all the descendants of Noah, who dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of his temporary tabernacle as he await the creation of his new glorious Temple of light in which he will dwell on earth among mankind, of which Temple, Jesus was the chosen cornerstone.

Jesus was the first of many brothers to be raised from the dead past of the Son of Man, the first to win the victory and to receive a share of the glorious immortal body of light (Simulacrum/blueprint) that was torn asunder for our salvation and poured out as fire on all who believed his words as spoken through his obedient earthly host body "Jesus," who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our heavenly Father.

. In his new glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, he 'Jesus,' on the road to Damascus, answered Saul's question, "Who are you Lord?" with these words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute,"

And Jesus our brother, was given divine glory and now sits in the throne of our Father, we the chosen ones have born the image of the first Adam, shall also bear THE IMAGE OF Jesus the second Adam, a new creation of bodies of Glorious and blinding Light that is the Temple that is to replace God’s old tabernacle (Mankind) on this earth.

First, MAN was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY, we have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead past of the Godhead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by our heavenly Father and saviour, and now sits in His heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites we; who win the victory also, to sit with him in our Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which includes even the angels, will bow at our feet.

[Cain]

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.� ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

The English word “Generation,� is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth� which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,� or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Origen, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. Every universe from the first to the last, from the smallest to the greatest, which have been created throughout the aeons of eternity, still exist in their independent Space-Time positions within the eternal and boundless cosmos.

The New international Version, the Scofield Referrence Bible, and the Companion Bible, all note that the phase in Genesis 1: 2; The earth was formless and void (Having neither shape or mass) should be correctly translated, “The earth became without form and void.� The Hebrew word “Hayah� translated “was,� means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be.� (Vines Complete Expository of Old and New Testament Words, 1985. “To Be.�)

When this universe collapses and is condensed once more into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin, it returns to THE Beginning, before space and time began, not to a new beginning, but to THE beginning.

The first time that one reads the bible from Genesis to revelation, they have little or no understanding of the beginning. By the time they reach Revelation they have gained some insight into the genesis story and next time they can enter into the “WORD� on a deeper level, whereupon a much greater revelation of the BEGINNING is received, which allows them to enter into the unfathomable depths of the “WORD� at an even deeper level etc, etc.

One then begins to understand the Biblical revelation of an eternal cyclic universe that begins as an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, which singularity expands to become the universal body which is all that is. A body which is then condensed back into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of “The Beginning:� not to some new beginning, but “THE BEGINNING�, before the space and time of this visible three dimension came to be.

The student will eventually understand that Mankind is not the end of the evolutionary or growth process within this expansion, or should I say, “Period of universal activity,� and that a new species of non-physical beings, which comes from the body of mankind (The Son of Man) is yet to evolve/grow.

The prototype of the new species that will dwell on earth among mankind and which evolves from mankind, is Jesus of Nazareth who appeared to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus in his new body of glorious and blinding light. And as we have born the image of the first Adam, so shall a selected few share the image of the second Adam.

The story of “Cain the Shining One� and his younger brother Abel, is a very, very, very condensed story of a previous cycle of universal activity, wherein the Son of Man (The Shining Ones) had evolved and they were over righteous and destroyed their younger brother Abel.

These are the sons of God who came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of Seth in the next period of universal activity. (The name “JARED� carries the meaning, “DESCENDING) and we read that it was in the days of Jared (Descending) that the Sons of God abandoned their own original habitat and came down and bore sons from the daughters of man. We also read in the Testament of Reuben, that they could not manifest themselves in visible form, but would possess the bodies of the men, while they were with their wives and from there they were able to pass on their issue, and Giants were born on the earth.

Jared was the physical Father of Enoch, but Cain the Shining one was the spiritual father who possessed the body of Jared, and Enoch is the only man in scripture to have received the gift of eternal life. The only exception of all mankind to be carried to heaven and anointed by the Godhead to the ever evolving universal body, where he received the gift of eternal life when he was translated from a corruptible body of matter, into an incorruptible body of brilliant and blinding light.

To win the victory, one does not believe that the stories in the bible are all literally true, but one must believe that within those stories the truth is revealed.

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives are all descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad. Enoch is the only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of all time and witness the collapse of the universal body into the Great Abyss (Black Hole) which is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.

It is He, the Most High in the creation, the “Son of Man� The light and life of the LOGOS, which is all the gathered universal information (The Word) that expresses itself as another physical universal body in the image and likeness of the body in which our Father was the supreme personality of Godhead to have developed in the living universal body, and it was HE, who in the Beginning was the light and the life within the Logos (The Gathered information/spirit, that was God.)

Our Father, “The Son of Man,� who is the Godhead within the Logos, then dies in the process of involution, in order, that from the gathered information that is He, the resurrected universal body that had descended into the seemingly bottomless pit would rise again in the image of the previous body in which HE had developed.

When the Logos has emptied itself and the world and all its life forms are recreated, and the Logos has become mankind once again, the light of Man who is the life of the Logos came unto his own, but his own received him not, yet to as many as received him, to them gave He the power to become the Sons of God.

John, was not that Light, but came to bear witness to the light of Man, who was the new living controlling spirit in the body of Adam (Mankind) that rose from the baptismal waters of the earth in which the body of the old godhead Adam, was submerged. It was our heavenly father, (The Son of Man) who told John, that the man upon whom he saw HIS spirit descend, was the one through whom he would reveal himself and the awesome sacrifice that He makes for the sinful body in which HE, ‘The Son of Man’ had developed.

Enoch, whose life was ransomed by the righteous blood of Abel, which blood could redeem only one man, was the only man who received the lot of eternal life, and it is the deathless spirit of Enoch, which is the indwelling ancestral Father of all the descendants of Noah, who dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of his temporary tabernacle as he await the creation of his new glorious Temple of light in which he will dwell on earth among mankind, of which Temple, Jesus was the chosen cornerstone.

Jesus was the first of many brothers to be raised from the dead past of the Son of Man, the first to win the victory and to receive a share of the glorious immortal body of light (Simulacrum/blueprint) that was torn asunder for our salvation and poured out as fire on all who believed his words as spoken through his obedient earthly host body "Jesus," who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our heavenly Father.

. In his new glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, he 'Jesus,' on the road to Damascus, answered Saul's question, "Who are you Lord?" with these words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute,"

And Jesus our brother, was given divine glory and now sits in the throne of our Father, we the chosen ones have born the image of the first Adam, shall also bear THE IMAGE OF Jesus the second Adam, a new creation of bodies of Glorious and blinding Light that is the Temple that is to replace God’s old tabernacle (Mankind) on this earth.

First, MAN was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY, we have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead past of the Godhead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by our heavenly Father and saviour, and now sits in His heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites we; who win the victory also, to sit with him in our Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which includes even the angels, will bow at our feet.

Any chance of just making a point without writing a novel? LOL
You don't really believe all that do you?

“When one person suffers from delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from delusion it is called religion.� Robert M.Pirsig