Armageddon is over and Satan has won ! What happens now ?

[Regens Küchl]

Imagine this: Satan and the Antichrist, against all expectations, have triumphed over the Abrahamitic god, Jesus and the Holy Spirit in the last Battle of Armageddon
Our Trinity is not neccessarily dead, but ruined and toppled from its place of Power.

How do the Abrahamitic god, Jesus and the Holy Spirit feel now, that the unthinkable happened?

What will Satan and the Antichrist do now that their greatest triumph is accomplished?

What will their minions do and what will the other humans still on earth do?

What will the surviving angels and demons do?

And what happens to the "true christians" that descended to heaven on the first day of tribulation? Will they be kicked out now that evil has won?

[Goat]

According to many Christians, Satan is the source of much misery.

Because God refuses to stop that, yet alledgedly has the power to, and God also made Satan, then God's mercy to Satan is the cause of much misery to humanity

The wages of sin is death. We should have been stopped at the first sin and the misery began there. The misery is a direct consequence of God cursing man after the fall.

'Aha God is evil!!'

Actually since God should have given us death then and there, the curse was merciful. We all have the chance to choose life or death today as a result.

Well, no.. this does not prove that God is evil or not evil. It just shows the inconsistency of much of the Christian mindset.. of course, they have a key word that means nothing, yet thinks it let's their concept of God off the hook. They invoke the meaningless phrase 'Free Will' as if that explains things. Then they mouth platitudes such as 'The wages of Sin is Death', as if that phrase excuses the actions they attribute to God.

Sorry, but mouthing those platitudes, and making those excuses does not change the contradiction in the Christian concept of God.

[Wootah]

"Y'all don't do that which I've given you no comprehension of, or I'ma gonna kill ya right then and there."

"Well dangititall if ya didn't go ahead and do it."

"That's fine, I'll just punish each and every dadgum one of you're decendents about it."

Of course you are correct. If A&E knew nothing then God was evil. Ergo that had to know something. You and I have no idea what death is but we sure do avoid it. If I said to you, 'you shall surely die if you do x' what more would you require?

The "misery" is that this being of proposed omniscience and "love" would punish to the nth generation the stuff the first'n there fouled up on.

The nth generation argument has two responses. The first is trivial (and yet complete). You wouldn't have done any better.
The second is a lot more philosophical. I think God created one reality for us and I base that on the idea that God would do this because he would want us to all lovingly relate together. That's why God works within the reality of sin rather than just waves the magic wand.

I propose we can't figure that'n out, but we can lay significant odds on that god's worshipers doing a bunch of it themselves.

We all do our share I suspect.

I pity this statement.

If you stare long enough at our own justice systems a lot more crimes are deserving of death really. We don't do it and I don't propose it because I would prefer people turned to Christ. I forgive because God forgave.

While the contention may be supportable in its presented form, I challenge anyone to show such choice is the result of a god offering it up.

I didn't understand the sentence sorry. What do you mean by 'a god offering it up'?

[Wootah]

Well, no.. this does not prove that God is evil or not evil. It just shows the inconsistency of much of the Christian mindset.. of course, they have a key word that means nothing, yet thinks it let's their concept of God off the hook. They invoke the meaningless phrase 'Free Will' as if that explains things. Then they mouth platitudes such as 'The wages of Sin is Death', as if that phrase excuses the actions they attribute to God.

Sorry, but mouthing those platitudes, and making those excuses does not change the contradiction in the Christian concept of God.

What contradiction are you referring to here? Set out your premises and the contradictory conclusion. I'll try to follow your logic if you do.

[btj92]

Satan is the source of some misery but not all misery. We as humans are finite beings much like Satan who are capable of rebellion and thus we cause ourselves misery as well.

Yet, if any misery is caused by Satan, and God had the ability to stop that, and didn't.. then... that misery can be attributed to God, through his creation of Satan..

If you accept the concept of God and Satan that is

But God created Satan with the ability to follow God. It was Satan's choice to rebel and become a fallen angel. God can't create something equal to him, that would go against his nature. If God would simply stop all misery then we would be reduced to mere robots. Sometimes, what you learn long term from misery outweighs the temporary pain.

[Goat]

Well, no.. this does not prove that God is evil or not evil. It just shows the inconsistency of much of the Christian mindset.. of course, they have a key word that means nothing, yet thinks it let's their concept of God off the hook. They invoke the meaningless phrase 'Free Will' as if that explains things. Then they mouth platitudes such as 'The wages of Sin is Death', as if that phrase excuses the actions they attribute to God.

Sorry, but mouthing those platitudes, and making those excuses does not change the contradiction in the Christian concept of God.

What contradiction are you referring to here? Set out your premises and the contradictory conclusion. I'll try to follow your logic if you do.

The entire 'God is all powerful and merciful'; And "God lets Satan cause misery because of "free will"

[Regens Küchl]

I have to tell that for the last two pages you all swayed from the topic. I hoped to discuss the alleged situation where Satan has just won Armageddon and what happens thereafter.
This is a fascinating Idea, while the "abrahamitic god allows evil because of free will problem" gets already discussed in many many threads in all religion-related forums. This is part of every religion-related forum like enis Markuzes christian postings are

It is a spiritual war on the possession of souls. So if Satan wins it only means that few souls can be saved.

I beg to differ. It may have a spiritual character. But 1) the true christians already descend before armageddon 2) Armageddon is seen as a real military conflict with real bloodshed on a fixed location in Israel and 3) I am not sure that christian theology compares Armageddon to the saving of souls. Which souls anyway; The ones who fougt for Christ, the ones who did not die in Armageddon, the ones who died as martyrs at armageddon, or... or... or...
Here is the Wiki to Armageddon so you can read what is to happen if "good" wins.
Of course do different sects nurture different interpretations of Armageddon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon

If we say that no one is greater than God, and he is viewed as the greatest conceivable being, then is it really possible for Satan to defeat Him?

I knew that this would be the strongest argument against my question, but since the different churches and sects do "rapture" whatever they want to read out of their bible I can easily think of possible ways to to make it theologically possible that the alleged impossible happens.
Of course the christians must say that their god will surely win, but in my scenario they and their deity(s) were wrong and have to face an Armageddon in which Satan and the Antichrist remained Victorious

So what happens from now on? Has Satan even read the biblical revelation where he is supposed to lose before? And if so is he surprised himself that he proved prophetic scripture wrong and won Armageddon
Will he rule instead of Christ for the next 1000 years or has he other plans

[Wootah]

The entire 'God is all powerful and merciful'; And "God lets Satan cause misery because of "free will"

Still no contradiction presented.

[Ragna]

The entire 'God is all powerful and merciful'; And "God lets Satan cause misery because of "free will"

Still no contradiction presented.

Mercy:

1 compassion or forgiveness shown towards an enemy or person in one's power.

This is clearly incompatible with the whole Original Sin dogma. It would be compatible if and only if God wasn't omnipotent or either he was not merciful, but the opposite: vengeful, His most plausible depiction in the OT.

Someone who can and has mercy as defined would instantly forgive our fall, specially when it's not even our own fault.

[Goat]

The entire 'God is all powerful and merciful'; And "God lets Satan cause misery because of "free will"

Still no contradiction presented.

You mean you can't see the contradiction there?? You must have a very odd idea of what mercy is.

[The Nice Centurion]

The entire 'God is all powerful and merciful'; And "God lets Satan cause misery because of "free will"

Still no contradiction presented.

You mean you can't see the contradiction there?? You must have a very odd idea of what mercy is.

And in this case, to whom is that mercy intended?
To Satan? Humanity? Both?