Quran Burining and Associated Killings

[fredonly]

Afghan President asks US Congress to condemn Quran burning

Afghan protests continue against Qur'an burning

I have absolutely no problem with Muslims peacefully protesting the rude act of Quran burning. But what I cannot understand is why Muslims are not protesting the deaths of innocent people that were the result of these protests. Do Muslims consider a copy of their "sacred" book to be more important than a human life? I certainly hope not, but I'd like to hear that from the Muslims who participate on this site.


Are there stories about the protests my Muslim leaders over these deaths? I haven't seen any, so please post the links if you see one.

[happy forever]

The natural universe!!!
Universe means the existence and nature means its rules.

No, the universe includes the "rules," but I'll discuss the use of this term ('rules') later.

Who sets the rules of the universe? The universe or the nature

I already answered this. You failed to answer my question: who set's the rules of God?

Yes, I deny evolution because of this question:
You always say evolved evolved, turn it to direct speech, who evolves?
The natural formation? I believe that the creation is organized by rules but these rules are not the ruler nor the organizer? As long as there are rules, there is ruler, or you have another opinion?

Of course I have another opinion. Nature behaves in a consistent, predictable manner. This predictability has been analyzed and described as mathematical relationships - such as the relationship between mass and gravity, the speed of light, the interation of the various fundamental particles, etc. These observed mathematical relationships are sometimes called the "laws of physics" or the "laws of nature." You call them "rules," it seems so that you can play this word game and say "rules" implies there must be a ruler. Sorry, but word games don't prove anything. I'll show you how this can be used with God.

If there is a god, is he capable of creating a square circle? Can he create something, and then complete undo it- so that he has never actually created it (not simply destroy it, but truly change reality so that he never actually did it in the first place)? My point is that God himself, if he exists, must be subject to rules also. By your logic, then there must be someone who rules God.

And now my questions are:
Do you believe that the universe made itself by itself?

At this time it is impossible to know the absolute origin. We are quite certain that the universe essentially began at the big bang, about 14 billion years ago. There are hypotheses about what preceded the big bang, but science has not advanced to the state that it can say definitively what occurred. I realize, of course, that any gap in scientific knowledge provides a refuge for believers to insist "god did it." However, it is an unjustified assertion to demand that an intelligent being exists and is this cause, because there is no evidence that such an entity exists or can exist. It also create new questions? where is this entity? Who created him? What evidence is there that he existed? Even if he existed, does he exist now (perhaps the universe is the corpse of God). If you merely want to define "god" to be that unknown phenomenon that preceded the big bang - that's fine with me. It says nothing more, and certainly doesn't suggest this is a personal, intelligent god - the god of Abraham, for example.

Do you believe that the universe sets its rules by itself?

As I pointed out, the observed mathematical relationships about matter and energy are not rules imposed by someone. It's just the nature of the universe, just like God (if he exists) behaves according to HIS nature.

Do you believe that everything has a role and connected to the other and supports the other by itself?

There are ecological niches that have developed over time. There is no evidence anyone imposed this. It is a primitive view that assumes the order could only exist if someone caused it. We have learned a lot since primitive times.

Do you believe that you were an atom then a monkey then a human then a developed creature?

Of course not. I didn't change. The creature that is ME was born 57 years ago. My body is, of course, composed of atoms that have been in existence since a star exploded billions of years ago. I certainly do believe that the human race has common ancestry with monkeys and other primates. Are you aware of the genetic similarity between humans and chimpanzees? At least 95% of chimpanzee and human genes are identical. Genetic analysis is able to see which genes are different - and these differences are easily explained by genetic mutation.

The problem with your point of view is that you are forced to deny the findings of science, which has obtained its body of knowledge through objective analysis. Once again I'll tell you that you are free to believe whatever you like, but since you're now denying objective science - you have absolutely no objective case for trying to convince me you are right. A belief that is inconsistent with observed reality has no objective credibility.

Science. Who can deny science. Scientifically this great universe started with an atom? Is it scientific analysis? What is the evidence of these logical analysis?
There are many atoms now, show mw an atom exploded by itself and able to make I will not say a universe but an atom like it.
Please, use your mind and give me proof of this myth.

No,the universe did not start with an atom,

but the evidence shows that all the matter of the universe was at one time compressed into a very small space.

The universe was one thing then split. Yes, and will explain it later.

If you believe God created the universe, you may very well decide the big bang didn't happen - or you may decide the the big bang was the act of creation.

Yes, Allah is The Creator of all creatures.
Big bang is a false concept, a myth invented by unintellectual person.

You prefer to believe that God created everything as it is, in its current state.

No, this is not true, The God The Creator don't create anything as it is or else you find yourself alive suddenly.

if you want me to start accepting your beliefs as true, you will have to provide me proof.

Ok, it's a deal. I will provide you great evidence can be seen by people of understanding very easily.

But before providing you these clear evidence, revise yours. Are they truly accepted evidence or you just follow blindly some words from a mouth of an ignorant person.

I respect my mind and you too so this is the judge, the mind, ok?

I think scientifically and logically and this is my religion or you don't know that Islam is the only logical religion?

There is nothing in science called by itself, by chance, or randomly, Yes? or else there would be no knowledge and no scientific rules to study.

In logic:

The deprived has nothing to offer.
In the actual life, explosion leads to chaos and destruction.
If we are unable to create anything after a lot of study, chance can never cause alive beings.
Mistakes lead to more mistakes lead to corruption and disorder.

If you are against science and logic, then give me proof that mosquito is created by itself or by chance or by mistake.


Tell me how a mosquito is created?

1- It’s a female
2- It has hundred eyes in its hade
3- It has 48 tooth in its mouth
4- Inside its little body there are three completed Hearts!!.
5- It has six knives in its nose and each knife has a special use.
6- It has three wings in each side
7- This Insect’s body contains a digital X-RAY machine… it using it to distinguish the human skin in the dark in Violet colour.
8- Its body contains also a small machine… working as a local anaesthetic to help this insect to insert its thorns in our skin without our feeling…& the hurt we feel during that is caused by blood lose…!!!
9- It has an instrument for blood test, because it doesn't like all blood types…!!!
10-It has a special mechanism to runny blood so it can go fast in its very digital thorns…!!!
And the most strange discovery by the Modern Science is that there is an other very small Microscopic Insect living on top of this Mosquito ….!!!

"God is not ashamed to make an example of a mosquito or of an even what is above it. As for those who believe, they know it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What does God mean by this example?" He misguides many by it and guides many by it. But He only misguides the deviators." (Qur'an, 2:26)

Think deeply tell I flood you with evidence.

[fredonly]

if you want me to start accepting your beliefs as true, you will have to provide me proof.

Ok, it's a deal. I will provide you great evidence can be seen by people of understanding very easily.

But before providing you these clear evidence, revise yours. Are they truly accepted evidence or you just follow blindly some words from a mouth of an ignorant person.

I have studied a lot of science, and it has been demonstrated to me that the scientific method provides a logical manner to evaluate evidence. Unlike religion, scientific theories are subject to revision or rejection as new evidence is found that is inconsistent with the theories. I can think of only two reasons why you might say that science is from the “mouth of an ignorant person� – 1) You have thoroughly studied science (theoretical physics, chemistry, biology, ecology, geology, etc) and are able to demonstrate that each of these is based on falsehood; 2) you reject science because it is inconsistent with your religious faith.
If you would like me to believe #1, then you are going to have to start discussing your objections to science in scientific terms – show me, using the tools of science, what is wrong with it. Is there something wrong with Einstein’s theory of relativity? Is there something that makes sepeciation wrong? Do genetic mutations not really occur? Is there a better explanation of the presence of heavy elements on earth, than that they are the product of a prior supernova? Please get started.

But of course, I’m pretty sure the problem is #2: you accept the Quran, and declare that it is more “logical� than science. This is a matter of faith, and a I have repeatedly said, you are welcome to this belief. I’m not trying to convince you that you are wrong. However, I do not see any reason for me to believe it.

I respect my mind and you too so this is the judge, the mind, ok?

That is too broad. Religious beliefs of all kinds (Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism,Zoroastrianism, Judaism…) are all within the mind of the believer. Most of them, I’m sure you will agree, are wrong. So clearly saying “the mind� is not nearly enough. Rational thought is the basis I use for determining what is probably true.

I think scientifically and logically and this is my religion or you don't know that Islam is the only logical religion?

No, I don’t know that Islam is any more logical than any other. I have studied Christianity a great deal, so I can certainly compare it to Christianity. I am aware of many logical flaws in Christianity, and of a few in Islam ( I admittedly don’t know that much about it).

There is nothing in science called by itself, by chance, or randomly, Yes? or else there would be no knowledge and no scientific rules to study.

Wrong. There is a great deal that occurs by chance.

In logic: The deprived has nothing to offer.

I have not idea what this means.

In the actual life, explosion leads to chaos and destruction.

Chemical explosions certainly lead to destruction. As to “chaos� it’s really randomness that we see. I hope you aren’t confusing the big bang with a chemical explosion. The “big bang� didn’t really go “bang� – it’s just a term that is applied to the beginning of the universe, when it began to expand and when time began.

If we are unable to create anything after a lot of study, chance can never cause alive beings.

That is an illogical statement. Nature had billions of years of random chemical reactions. Man has been investigating this for about 60 years.

Mistakes lead to more mistakes lead to corruption and disorder.

There are no “mistakes� in nature. Abiogenesis had to begin when a molecule was able to be self replicating. With this initial seed, random changes to the molecule would either be beneficial (higher probability of survival), or negative (less likely to survive) – this is the basis of evolution. The process has been demonstrated in computer models.

If you are against science and logic, then give me proof that mosquito is created by itself or by chance or by mistake. Tell me how a mosquito is created?

I am not against science and logic. The mosquito was not created by itself; it evolved from a prior species through gradual change, changes that provided a survival advantage.

1- It’s a female
2- It has hundred eyes in its hade
3- It has 48 tooth in its mouth
4- Inside its little body there are three completed Hearts!!.
5- It has six knives in its nose and each knife has a special use.
6- It has three wings in each side
7- This Insect’s body contains a digital X-RAY machine… it using it to distinguish the human skin in the dark in Violet colour.
8- Its body contains also a small machine… working as a local anaesthetic to help this insect to insert its thorns in our skin without our feeling…& the hurt we feel during that is caused by blood lose…!!!
9- It has an instrument for blood test, because it doesn't like all blood types…!!!
10-It has a special mechanism to runny blood so it can go fast in its very digital thorns…!!!
And the most strange discovery by the Modern Science is that there is an other very small Microscopic Insect living on top of this Mosquito ….!!!

I have not studied the evolution of the mosquito, and frankly – I’m not interested in doing so. The principles of evolution are what I’ve described We don’t know the specific genetic changes that occurred over time, nor understand the environment of the time and how these changes would have impacted survival. However, evolution provides a logical explanation for how the complexity and diversity of life occurred. If you have a better explanation, then please present it.

"God is not ashamed to make an example of a mosquito or of an even what is above it. As for those who believe, they know it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What does God mean by this example?" He misguides many by it and guides many by it. But He only misguides the deviators." (Qur'an, 2:26)
Think deeply tell I flood you with evidence.

I have thought about this for years. I’ve answered many of your questions; you don’t seem to like my answers because they disagree with your religious faith. You seem to think you are disproving science, but you haven’t even tarnished the surface. But even if you COULD show that science is wrong, that doesn’t imply your religion is RIGHT. Start addressing the issue directly. It’s your turn to directly answer my questions instead of asking more and more question of me:
Prove there is a creator.
Prove this creator is intelligent.
Prove the creator exists today.
Prove the creator has interacted with humans in the past.
Prove the creator interacts with humans today.
Prove there have been prophets.
Prove to me Jesus was a prophet
Prove to me Muhammed was a prophet.

[happy forever]

if you want me to start accepting your beliefs as true, you will have to provide me proof.

Ok, it's a deal. I will provide you great evidence can be seen by people of understanding very easily.

But before providing you these clear evidence, revise yours. Are they truly accepted evidence or you just follow blindly some words from a mouth of an ignorant person.

I have studied a lot of science, and it has been demonstrated to me that the scientific method provides a logical manner to evaluate evidence. Unlike religion, scientific theories are subject to revision or rejection as new evidence is found that is inconsistent with the theories. I can think of only two reasons why you might say that science is from the “mouth of an ignorant person� – 1) You have thoroughly studied science (theoretical physics, chemistry, biology, ecology, geology, etc) and are able to demonstrate that each of these is based on falsehood; 2) you reject science because it is inconsistent with your religious faith.
If you would like me to believe #1, then you are going to have to start discussing your objections to science in scientific terms – show me, using the tools of science, what is wrong with it. Is there something wrong with Einstein’s theory of relativity? Is there something that makes sepeciation wrong? Do genetic mutations not really occur? Is there a better explanation of the presence of heavy elements on earth, than that they are the product of a prior supernova? Please get started.

But of course, I’m pretty sure the problem is #2: you accept the Quran, and declare that it is more “logical� than science. This is a matter of faith, and a I have repeatedly said, you are welcome to this belief. I’m not trying to convince you that you are wrong. However, I do not see any reason for me to believe it.

I respect my mind and you too so this is the judge, the mind, ok?

That is too broad. Religious beliefs of all kinds (Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism,Zoroastrianism, Judaism…) are all within the mind of the believer. Most of them, I’m sure you will agree, are wrong. So clearly saying “the mind� is not nearly enough. Rational thought is the basis I use for determining what is probably true.

I think scientifically and logically and this is my religion or you don't know that Islam is the only logical religion?

No, I don’t know that Islam is any more logical than any other. I have studied Christianity a great deal, so I can certainly compare it to Christianity. I am aware of many logical flaws in Christianity, and of a few in Islam ( I admittedly don’t know that much about it).

There is nothing in science called by itself, by chance, or randomly, Yes? or else there would be no knowledge and no scientific rules to study.

Wrong. There is a great deal that occurs by chance.

In logic: The deprived has nothing to offer.

I have not idea what this means.

In the actual life, explosion leads to chaos and destruction.

Chemical explosions certainly lead to destruction. As to “chaos� it’s really randomness that we see. I hope you aren’t confusing the big bang with a chemical explosion. The “big bang� didn’t really go “bang� – it’s just a term that is applied to the beginning of the universe, when it began to expand and when time began.

If we are unable to create anything after a lot of study, chance can never cause alive beings.

That is an illogical statement. Nature had billions of years of random chemical reactions. Man has been investigating this for about 60 years.

Mistakes lead to more mistakes lead to corruption and disorder.

There are no “mistakes� in nature. Abiogenesis had to begin when a molecule was able to be self replicating. With this initial seed, random changes to the molecule would either be beneficial (higher probability of survival), or negative (less likely to survive) – this is the basis of evolution. The process has been demonstrated in computer models.

If you are against science and logic, then give me proof that mosquito is created by itself or by chance or by mistake. Tell me how a mosquito is created?

I am not against science and logic. The mosquito was not created by itself; it evolved from a prior species through gradual change, changes that provided a survival advantage.

1- It’s a female
2- It has hundred eyes in its hade
3- It has 48 tooth in its mouth
4- Inside its little body there are three completed Hearts!!.
5- It has six knives in its nose and each knife has a special use.
6- It has three wings in each side
7- This Insect’s body contains a digital X-RAY machine… it using it to distinguish the human skin in the dark in Violet colour.
8- Its body contains also a small machine… working as a local anaesthetic to help this insect to insert its thorns in our skin without our feeling…& the hurt we feel during that is caused by blood lose…!!!
9- It has an instrument for blood test, because it doesn't like all blood types…!!!
10-It has a special mechanism to runny blood so it can go fast in its very digital thorns…!!!
And the most strange discovery by the Modern Science is that there is an other very small Microscopic Insect living on top of this Mosquito ….!!!

I have not studied the evolution of the mosquito, and frankly – I’m not interested in doing so. The principles of evolution are what I’ve described We don’t know the specific genetic changes that occurred over time, nor understand the environment of the time and how these changes would have impacted survival. However, evolution provides a logical explanation for how the complexity and diversity of life occurred. If you have a better explanation, then please present it.

"God is not ashamed to make an example of a mosquito or of an even what is above it. As for those who believe, they know it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What does God mean by this example?" He misguides many by it and guides many by it. But He only misguides the deviators." (Qur'an, 2:26)
Think deeply tell I flood you with evidence.

I have thought about this for years. I’ve answered many of your questions; you don’t seem to like my answers because they disagree with your religious faith. You seem to think you are disproving science, but you haven’t even tarnished the surface. But even if you COULD show that science is wrong, that doesn’t imply your religion is RIGHT. Start addressing the issue directly. It’s your turn to directly answer my questions instead of asking more and more question of me:
Prove there is a creator.
Prove this creator is intelligent.
Prove the creator exists today.
Prove the creator has interacted with humans in the past.
Prove the creator interacts with humans today.
Prove there have been prophets.
Prove to me Jesus was a prophet
Prove to me Muhammed was a prophet.

No, they are great sciences because they are the result of studying the great Creation of Allah.
“Those truly fear Allah, among His Servants who have knowledge: for Allah is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving. (28)� Quran
Read history and see the effect of Islam on humanity and how the messenger of Allah is the light who lightens all with his miracle the Munificent Quran.
I respect you for your logical way of thinking and your polite discussion.
Science is not and never and can’t be against Islam.
Do you know what is the meaning of the word “Quran�?
One of the meaning of the word Quran is the Omniscience.
Do you still think I am against science? Why do we have mind then?
I insist and I challenge and I face you eye to eye nothing in science is called by chance and ask any scientist or a normal person. Do you call discovering a chemical equation is a chance? no it is one of the countless rules set by our God and we humans the only creatures with mind discover these rules by chance or not it doesn’t matter. But we, the smartest creatures, did not know and don’t know and in comparison to Allah’s science, we don’t have a drop of the oceans of the science of Allah.
Rational thought is welcome, so it is our judge.
No, Islam is not Christianity at all. As if you compare between believing that man is made out of chance and believing it is created out of strict very organized intelligent rules made by The Creator.
Again nothing in life is called by chance, nothing at all and this is a challenge. Rules of life are very strict, nothing can break it and these rules are not ours. Confess that the universe is without mind follows the rules without doubt and these rules are not set by it and not random.
The proof of the existence of The Originator, The Creator is the existence, the creation and what a proof, seen by the blind, known by the insane.
This is a nice dialogue between the evolution and a logical man:
Evolution: Hey, do you know that you are made by yourself?
Man: No at all I don’t know how I am existed.
Ev: You don’t know?! Ok you are out of random.
Man: But I am restricted with unbreakable accurate very very accurate rules, I have heart that beats under specific time, and I have cells with electrons flow in specific orbits, I have brain that sends orders to the organs in a very complex and organized way.
Ev: No you don’t understand, after many many chaos out of random process, you appeared. For example if you let a computer write by itself, you will find some of its results are meaningful words by chance. You see, random, chaos, by itself, by chance in one sentence.
Man: Ok, but where is that chaos or I am the only reality here and all other things are chaos?
You see the meaningful words only and don’t see the rest and even meaningful things made by chance are meaningless without something to evaluate?
Ev: Really?! Ok you are out of copies of self replicating molecules.
Man: and how are these self replicating molecules existed?
Ev: By chance.
Man: but I am unique and no one similar to me and every part of me is not like the other and no hair in me similar to the other. Do you know that the deprived has nothing to offer? And these molecules are not self existing so they will never be self replicating.
Since you started talking to me and never said one right logical sentence, I started to doubt that you are not my god so I will ask you some questions as a test.
Why are we different, unique, nothing is similar to the other? Why are there plants, humans, animals, fruits, vegetables, earth, moon, sun, stars, seas, rivers?
You say we are the result of chaos and explosion and randomness and chance and there is no originator, creator, maker.
Where is that chaos we are coming from? Show me any distortion any corruption any randomness. Show me with evidence Mr. Intellect.
Ev: I don’t know, do you mind? I am not a god I am just a concept and you have to accept it as is. You start from nothing to an intellectual man by time and selfexistence and mindless molecules with self desire to increase automatically.

Man: As if you say we are one thing started by itself (impossible) then becoming bigger and bigger, wider and wider as one selfish entity thinks of itself to be better and better to live longer and longer?
Ev: Exactly, you start to understand.
Man: So why everyone thinks himself the only one on earth?
Why death? Why birth?
Why evolution and time are friends when you want? Why evolution and time are enemies when you want?
Ev: Stop your hard questions.
Man: Why everyone is selfish, thinks of itself and its own interest?
Why everyone cannot evolve itself?
Why mercy? Why senses? Why integration?
Why are you merciful and out of your mercy, creates selfish creatures?
Ev: I am not mercy at all, I am nothing, I am inanimate, I am a concept, if you believe in, you have to believe that you are similar to any machine made by you with one difference is that you are made without maker.
So you are false evolution without doubt. This is not your creation:
“Do those who are disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were sewn together and then We unstitched them and that We made from water every living thing? So will they not have faith?� (21- 30) Quran

http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_t ... _p1_02.php

“And there is not a beast in the earth but the sustenance thereof dependeth on Allah. He knoweth its habitation and its repository. All is in a clear Record. (6)� [11-6] Quran


Did you think of the different colors of roses, butterflies and birds which are watered with one water and grow in one land?



Did you think of the silk, cotton and wool which is for the benefit of man only?



Did you think of iron, metals, pearls and coral, ambergris and musk, the graces from Allah for human only.
Did you think of wheat, rice, vegetables, fruits and livestock.
Did you notice that for every disease, a cure.
Did you meditate the sunshine, the sunset and how Allah makes the night covering and the day as means of subsistence?
“"Thou causest the Night to gain on the Day, and Thou causest the Day to gain on the Night; Thou bringest the Living out of the Dead, and Thou bringest the Dead out of the Living; and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest without measure." (27) [3-27] Quran
Did you meditate your tongue and how this small piece has many roles? It helps you to chew, taste, speak and to say Allah.
Did you notice that there are fixed cells in you and others die without replacement and others die with replacement of new ones and no one knows how this happens except Him?
Did you think of the glands and how each organizes the work of your body and how it distributes hormones to its required destination very accurately?
Did you think why don’t we continue growing till no end?
Did you think of the fetus and how it was inside womb then come out to air? In both cases he breathes.
Did you think of your eye, this flesh that sees light and flows in a liquid to move it easily?
Did you think of your vocal cords and how your voice is unique and no one has the like of it? And all other animals have the same tools but don’t speak?
Did you think of your teethes, 32 in the upper and 32 in the lower and how they are created without need for mold?
Did you think how you eat and speak without hurting your tongue or your lips? And without disturbing your ears with noise or your head with the movement of your mouth? And swallow without affecting your respiratory organs?
Did you think of your brows and how they are drawn accurately to add beauty to your face? And the moustache and the beard? And why hair doesn’t stop growing?

“Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); (12) Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest firmly fixed; (13) then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators! (14)� [23-12/14] Quran

http://www.kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/po ... n-of-human
“"Our Lord! not for naught hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire. (191)� [3-191] Quran

[fredonly]

Thank you once again for your statements of faith. Yes, I understand you think science is wrong, and I am quite sure I will never convince you otherwise.

Nevertheless, you have provided me zero evidence that Allah exists. The fact that you reject scientific explanations for the universe is irrelevant to me. Science is based on objective analysis and valid logic. Religion is based on dogma - the demand to believe certain things, which is not a logical approach to viewing the world. I have no problem with you choosing to view the world through your lens of faith, but this appears to me to be a distorted view of the world. You lack objectivity. Everything you see must conform to your religious beliefs. Your distorted views carry no weight to me.

There are Christians who are convinced the universe is only 6000 years old, and they say this based on genealogies documented in the Old Testament. The fact that we can see light from stars that are billions of light-years distant is sound proof that they are wrong, but their belief forces them to deny science, and to do so with the wildest approaches you can imagine.

I don't know if Islam is any better than this. You keep saying it is the most logical religion. If it is truly logical, then in my view, this would mean that it is CONSISTENT with scientific observation. If Islam demands ignoring science, or insisting science is wrong, then it is illogical. Your postings imply that you believe science is wrong, and this implies to me that Islam (or at least your interpretation of Islam) is illogical.

[happy forever]

Thank you once again for your statements of faith. Yes, I understand you think science is wrong, and I am quite sure I will never convince you otherwise.

Nevertheless, you have provided me zero evidence that Allah exists. The fact that you reject scientific explanations for the universe is irrelevant to me. Science is based on objective analysis and valid logic. Religion is based on dogma - the demand to believe certain things, which is not a logical approach to viewing the world. I have no problem with you choosing to view the world through your lens of faith, but this appears to me to be a distorted view of the world. You lack objectivity. Everything you see must conform to your religious beliefs. Your distorted views carry no weight to me.

There are Christians who are convinced the universe is only 6000 years old, and they say this based on genealogies documented in the Old Testament. The fact that we can see light from stars that are billions of light-years distant is sound proof that they are wrong, but their belief forces them to deny science, and to do so with the wildest approaches you can imagine.

I don't know if Islam is any better than this. You keep saying it is the most logical religion. If it is truly logical, then in my view, this would mean that it is CONSISTENT with scientific observation. If Islam demands ignoring science, or insisting science is wrong, then it is illogical. Your postings imply that you believe science is wrong, and this implies to me that Islam (or at least your interpretation of Islam) is illogical.

As if you didn't read my reply.
I said no one can ignore science or else why do we live?
Please, your personal opinion about me is not the point.
If you don't want to know to read anything related to Islam, you are free.
But did you notice that the dialouge between evolution and logic was purely logical and as we agreed rational intellect is the judge.
Now, you said science has logic and I agree and upon this is this dialouge. Can you reply to the questions which evolution couldn't answer?

Convince me logically and reply to my questions and I have the reply to your other questions.

[fredonly]

But did you notice that the dialouge between evolution and logic was purely logical and as we agreed rational intellect is the judge.

No, it's wasn't the least logical. Your response was pure emotion. You gave a naive objection to evolution: the fact that it can't explain every detail of every living creature. This is silly, and implies you simply don't understand that evolution is a process that has been validated in many ways. We understand a lot about the process of evolution(not everything). It is capable of explaining a great deal (not everything). But the fact that we haven't unequivocally determined how every characteristic of every living creature has evolved does not falsify the theory; it just means there's more to study. You dismissed evolution for this naive reason. This naive dismissal of yours carries absolutely no weight. Evolution is a very sound theory, and there are Muslims who accept it. Just as there are Muslims who accept the Big Bang theory - as described in the link you posted (http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_t ... _p1_02.php). That's great that Islam can be more or less consistent with science, but that doesn't make it true. And incidentally, I noticed a logical error at the site: "Before the Big Bang, there was no such thing as matter." The error is this: according to the Big Bang model it describes, TIME began with the big bang. There was no "before the big bang" because "before" is a characteristic that requires time. In this model, there is no earlier point in time than the Big Bang. It is logically impossible for God (whether named "Allah" or "Yahweh") to have existed earlier - there is no "earlier." I will say this: cosmologists no longer are convinced that the big bang was the beginning. There are new models that propose the universe is just one of many.


Why should I believe:

He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. (Qur'an, 6:101)

The universe doesn't need a creator. If the universe required a creator (Allah) then Allah also required a creator.

Now, you said science has logic and I agree and upon this is this dialouge. Can you reply to the questions which evolution couldn't answer?

Evolution does answer the questions in a general sense. The fact that you don't accept the answer is irrelevant to me. Gaps in knowledge do not imply that "God" is the answer. Gaps in knowledge are opportunities to study further.

Convince me logically and reply to my questions and I have the reply to your other questions.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Believe what you like. I've said this repeatedly. You were the one who decided to try and convince me that Islam is true. Perhaps you think you are doing that through your naive dismissal of evolution, or by quoting from the Quran. I've addressed the problem with your dismissing of evolution, so now I'll comment on the Quran: why should I believe anything in it? It is a book written by a human being. Do you have evidence it is anything more than this? To be clear, I'm not trying to convince you the Quran is just a book. You're the one trying to convince me it is more than that. Same with Muhammed. Convince me he was more than an ordinary man. And again, I'm not trying to convince you he was an ordinary man - you can believe he was a prophet. I can't disprove this, any more than I can disprove the existence of God or that either one of us can prove the Jesus was not God, as Christians believe. You are the one trying to convince me. So you are the one needing to answer questions, not me.

[happy forever]

But did you notice that the dialouge between evolution and logic was purely logical and as we agreed rational intellect is the judge.

No, it's wasn't the least logical. Your response was pure emotion. You gave a naive objection to evolution: the fact that it can't explain every detail of every living creature. This is silly, and implies you simply don't understand that evolution is a process that has been validated in many ways. We understand a lot about the process of evolution(not everything). It is capable of explaining a great deal (not everything). But the fact that we haven't unequivocally determined how every characteristic of every living creature has evolved does not falsify the theory; it just means there's more to study. You dismissed evolution for this naive reason. This naive dismissal of yours carries absolutely no weight. Evolution is a very sound theory, and there are Muslims who accept it. Just as there are Muslims who accept the Big Bang theory - as described in the link you posted (http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_t ... _p1_02.php). That's great that Islam can be more or less consistent with science, but that doesn't make it true. And incidentally, I noticed a logical error at the site: "Before the Big Bang, there was no such thing as matter." The error is this: according to the Big Bang model it describes, TIME began with the big bang. There was no "before the big bang" because "before" is a characteristic that requires time. In this model, there is no earlier point in time than the Big Bang. It is logically impossible for God (whether named "Allah" or "Yahweh") to have existed earlier - there is no "earlier." I will say this: cosmologists no longer are convinced that the big bang was the beginning. There are new models that propose the universe is just one of many.


Why should I believe:

He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. (Qur'an, 6:101)

The universe doesn't need a creator. If the universe required a creator (Allah) then Allah also required a creator.

Now, you said science has logic and I agree and upon this is this dialouge. Can you reply to the questions which evolution couldn't answer?

Evolution does answer the questions in a general sense. The fact that you don't accept the answer is irrelevant to me. Gaps in knowledge do not imply that "God" is the answer. Gaps in knowledge are opportunities to study further.

Convince me logically and reply to my questions and I have the reply to your other questions.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Believe what you like. I've said this repeatedly. You were the one who decided to try and convince me that Islam is true. Perhaps you think you are doing that through your naive dismissal of evolution, or by quoting from the Quran. I've addressed the problem with your dismissing of evolution, so now I'll comment on the Quran: why should I believe anything in it? It is a book written by a human being. Do you have evidence it is anything more than this? To be clear, I'm not trying to convince you the Quran is just a book. You're the one trying to convince me it is more than that. Same with Muhammed. Convince me he was more than an ordinary man. And again, I'm not trying to convince you he was an ordinary man - you can believe he was a prophet. I can't disprove this, any more than I can disprove the existence of God or that either one of us can prove the Jesus was not God, as Christians believe. You are the one trying to convince me. So you are the one needing to answer questions, not me.

I answer here your questions and hope to answer mine to yourself.


Evolution is a gradual process of change and development.
The word chance doesn’t exist in the scientific dictionary so it is not accepted at all.

This is purely scientific and intellectual and it is not accepted to say “this is emotional�.

Gradual change: who will change? And change what?

It is false scientifically and logically to assume that from nothing comes a thing as if you say nothing creates a thing. Is it science?

If we put our minds aside and cover our eyes and imagine the myth which says “something is existed by chance�, then what??

This thing which doesn’t know how it is created or why, this thing which is not self existing is able to change????? Is it logic? Is it science?

Lets hide and ignore our minds again and imagine that this not self existing thing is able to change itself, how, why, and to what?

Is this thing has a mind to be able to change or there must be something else to change it?? What is that thing? Is this other thing is also not self existing? Are these two not self existing things are able to change each other without having mind and they are able to interact?

Let’s throw our minds from the nearest window and imagine without intellect at all that these not self existing things are able to change each other to produce something they don’t agree to produce and this thing is unknown to them and of course the new thing will be able to do the same and from here is the base of this great existence.


Development: Why?

We must ask why even after throwing logic and science from the window, Why development?

Why not destruction? Why not evil?
You know why? Because the mindless person who invented this myth was kind so his myth assumes that the not self existing things are kind by nature.
But you forget a very important thing:.

If there is development, there must be a developer and if there is destruction, there must be a destructor.

Never ever talk about development without mentioning a developer if you want to speak scientifically.


Now, you have to answer this:

This mystic development (according to your hypothesis) means something changes itself by itself to become more advanced without need to The Organizer, The Developer, The Originator,
Then why there is birth and there is death???
Answer this question to yourself.


The God, The Creator, The Originator is who created you from what you know and what you don’t know.


Save yourself and stop being arrogant to decline the greatness of The Creator and His great creation by saying ‘by chance, by itself, by randomness’.



The One God, our Creator doesn’t create us in vain. This universe is created for a purpose but what we know from Allah is the purpose of creating us, the humans.
We are the only creatures given intellect on earth as you see and we are honored and created in the best shape to able to do changes on earth whether good or evil. So we are the vicegerent of Allah on earth.

“Behold thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said "Wilt thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? Whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify you?" He said: "I know what ye know not." (30)� [2-30]

Noah is the first messenger because his people are the first to disbelieve The God and worship idols after missing the teachings of Adam through time.
There were many messengers after Noah like Hud, Saleh, Shueyb, Jonah, Abraham, Ismail and Lot and many others. Many of them were supported with miracles suited the nature of their tribes.

The first message of all messengers and prophets is:

“There is no god but Allah�

That is exactly what happened to The Messengers of Allah, Moses and Jesus.

Prophet Moses’ first message is “There is no god but Allah�. Allah supported him with miracles which suited his people at that time. They were interested in magic so his miracle was the stick and the light of his hand and others.

Prophet Jesus’ first message is “There is no god but Allah�.

The miracle of Prophet Jesus also suited his people.
His people were smart at medicine and reached high levels of knowledge in this field so his miracle was healing incurable diseases, returning dead to life after Allah’s will.

Prophet Muhammad’s first message is:
“There is no god but Allah�.

As for the messenger of Allah Muhammad, it is the same except in one thing:
Muhammad is the last messenger of Allah and his message is for all humanity till the end of the universe so his miracle is not for specific people or specific time, it is for all times since his message till the end.

So his miracle must pass all barriers of time and place and must support and document this long story.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MIRACLE IS?

[fredonly]

I answer here your questions and hope to answer mine to yourself.


Evolution is a gradual process of change and development.
The word chance doesn’t exist in the scientific dictionary so it is not accepted at all.
This is purely scientific and intellectual and it is not accepted to say “this is emotional�.

You are completely wrong! Chance is the most natural thing in the universe, and a lot of science is built around this. To deny that chance plays a role is most certainly emotional, not the least bit logical or scientific.

Gradual change: who will change? And change what?

That’s an absurd question. It’s not, “who?� The correct question is: “what changes?� You ask "who" because you think there IS a "who." You're supposed to make a case for it, not demand that I accept it for no logical reason.

In biological evolution, it is the genome that changes. Random mutations occur in the genetic code. This leads to 3 possible outcomes: 1) positive – the change provides a survival benefit; 2) neutral – it has no effect on survival; 3) negative – the change hurts the chances of survival.

In this context “survival� refers to survival (and thriving) of the species. Individual survival is part of it: a longer life means more chances to procreate, resulting in more members of the population possessing the positive trait. Over time, the members of the population who lack the trait diminish and eventually die out.

But this is the key to evolution: because of the impact on survival, there is a randomly based driver to development. Positive traits automatically proliferate. This gives you the illusion of design, but the process certainly reqauires no no designer, it just requires chance, and the natural driver of survival/proliferation.

There two additional drivers of evolution that I’ll just mention: isolation and environmental change. New subspecies will not tend to develop in a large dispersed, diverse population with a stable environment (it CAN occur, but it's not far less likely). Isolation and inbreeding allow positive traits to proliferate and negative ones to die out. Environmental change creates more survival challenges, thus providing more opportunity for the advantaged to thrive and the disadvantaged to whither away.

One of the truly interesting things about the Theory of Evolution is that it was first theorized based on general observations: the diversity of species; the commonality of traits and apparent taxonomy; the geographic isolations, and the fossil record. Since that time, the theories have been confirmed by additional fossil information, by the unrelated observation of continental drift – which caused species isoloation, and (most important of all) the discovery of the genetic code. I mentioned to you earlier, and you ignored, the fact that chimpanzees and humans have physical similarities and also have very similar genetic codes. This demonstrates a close association. Evolutionary biologists believe humans and chimpanzees have a common ancestor based on their genetic similarities and fossil evidence. This is not a wild guess, it is an educated assessment of the evidence.
If you would like me to wave this away, you will have to explain the diversity of species (living as well as fossils) why there are also genetic similarities and these match this in a taxonomic hierarchy, why parallel traits appear in different species (e.g. flying bats and flying birds).

It is false scientifically and logically to assume that from nothing comes a thing as if you say nothing creates a thing. Is it science?

Your view of science is wrong. Science does not suggest something from nothing. Science deals with transformations; transformations of species through the mechanism of genetic mutation, and transformations of matter and energy. So the bottom line is that your comment is meaningless, since you’re arguing against a distorted view of science.

If we put our minds aside and cover our eyes and imagine the myth which says “something is existed by chance�, then what??

I thought you were going to try to be logical. Randomness occurs. Imagine that you have a bowl containing 1000 balls, each with a number from 1 to 1000. There is only 1 chance in 1000 that you will reach in and pull out the ball with number "500." However, if you repeat this one million times, the liklihood of getting ball#500 becomes very probable. The universe is 13.7 billion years old. That's ample opportunity to get lucky many, many times.

And again, "something is existed by chance" is absurd. I'm not saying anything popped into existence from nothing. Matter and energy undergo transformations. The atoms of your body are mostly the result of a star exploding billions of years ago.

This thing which doesn’t know how it is created or why, this thing which is not self existing is able to change????? Is it logic? Is it science?

I explained the logic of evolutionary change of species. Do species know how they came about? Of course not. Species aren’t an organism; species do not have a collective memory. Evolutionary change takes hundreds of thousands, to millions of years. The fact that we don’t “remember� our ancestors from one million years ago is hardly surprising. Do you remember your human ancestors from 10000 years ago? This is logic. You are spouting emotion based on denial of objective evaluation of the evidence.

Lets hide and ignore our minds again and imagine that this not self existing thing is able to change itself, how, why, and to what?

You are going down a path of absurdity because of your own misconception. Nothing “changed itself.� External things cause change (including energy and entropy); randomness causes change.

Is this thing has a mind to be able to change or there must be something else to change it?? What is that thing? Is this other thing is also not self existing? Are these two not self existing things are able to change each other without having mind and they are able to interact?

You are obviously leading down the absurd path towards the destination you seek: God.
“What is this thing?� It is the survivability of small random changes, that accumulate into larger changes. “Is this other thing self existing?� Randomness and survivability are processes, and exist only as processes. They are not “self existing� because they cannot exist without the objects that they operate on.

Let’s throw our minds from the nearest window and imagine without intellect at all that these not self existing things are able to change each other to produce something they don’t agree to produce and this thing is unknown to them and of course the new thing will be able to do the same and from here is the base of this great existence.

You said you would be logical, and yet you tell me to do something illogical (ignore my mind). Keep to your commitment to be logical and stop trying to make an emotional (and absurd) argument.

Development: Why?

We must ask why even after throwing logic and science from the window, Why development?

I explained evolutionary development. It just happens, and there is no evidence that anyone is causing it to happen. Religious people like to convince themselves that God is doing it, but there is no objective evidence for this.

Why not destruction? Why not evil?
You know why? Because the mindless person who invented this myth was kind so his myth assumes that the not self existing things are kind by nature.

Destruction DOES occur! Stars go supernova. The universe is headed to an eventual heat death. Species die out. Destructive genetic mutations die out – automatically, because they cause the organism to die or at least to not procreate.

But you forget a very important thin:.

If there is development, there must be a developer and if there is destruction, there must be a destructor.
Never ever talk about development without mentioning a developer if you want to speak scientifically.

That is pure nonsense. I explained how biological evolution occurs, and it’s purely natural. Random natural change at the microscopic level of the genes; the impact of the change is positive, negative, or neutral. External, natural changes affect the process. There is no need for a designer, except for those who wish to believe in one.

This mystic development (according to your hypothesis) means something changes itself by itself to become more advanced without need to The Organizer, The Developer, The Originator,
Then why there is birth and there is death???
Answer this question to yourself.

I do not believe in mysticism. And I as I said, nothing “changes itself.� This is your fantasy and misunderstanding. You have not made a case for the existence of an organizer, designer, or originator.
There is birth, because this is the way organisms propogate and continue to exist. If a species had no births, it could not exist.
Deaths occur because: 1) tissue wears out; 2) disease occurs; 3) evolutionary survival ONLY requires living long enough to reproduce. There is no evolutionary benefit to long life, except to the degree that it allows more reproduction.

The God, The Creator, The Originator is who created you from what you know and what you don’t know.

Another statement of faith, which you’ve give me zero reason to accept. Please stop wasting your time with this nonsense. Make a logical case.

Save yourself and stop being arrogant to decline the greatness of The Creator and His great creation by saying ‘by chance, by itself, by randomness’.

You say I’m arrogant because I deny what you take on faith. You are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion, your argument is illogical and irrational

The One God, our Creator doesn’t create us in vain. This universe is created for a purpose but what we know from Allah is the purpose of creating us, the humans.

How do you know there is a God? How do you know there is only one? If he exists, how do you know he didn’t simply create us as a game, or for his sadistic pleasure? What makes you so certain there is a “purpose?�

We are the only creatures given intellect on earth as you see and we are honored and created in the best shape to able to do changes on earth whether good or evil. So we are the vicegerent of Allah on earth.

Intelligence is a trait that has a clear survival value, and it evolved just like every other advantageous trait. You prefer to think it was bestowed magically, by something invisible - with no logical justification for this. Mine is the logical view. Your’s is religious faith, repeating what you’ve been taught.

“Behold thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said "Wilt thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? Whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not." (30)� [2-30]

Noah is the first messenger because his people are the first to disbelieve The God and worship idols after missing the teachings of Adam through time.
There were many messengers after Noah like Hud, Saleh, Shueyb, Jonah, Abraham, Ismail and Lot and many others. Many of them were supported with miracles suited the nature of their tribes.

The first message of all messengers and prophets is:

“There is no god but Allah�

That is exactly what happened to The Messengers of Allah, Moses and Jesus.

Prophet Moses’ first message is “There is no god but Allah�. Allah supported him with miracles which suited his people at that time. They were interested in magic so his miracle was the stick and the light of his hand and others.
Prophet Jesus’ first message is “There is no god but Allah�.

The miracle of Prophet Jesus also suited his people.
His people were smart at medicine and reached high levels of knowledge in this field so his miracle was healing incurable diseases, returning dead to life after Allah’s will.

Prophet Muhammad’s first message is:
“There is no god but Allah�.

As for the messenger of Allah Muhammad, it is the same except in one thing:
Muhammad is the last messenger of Allah and his message is for all humanity till the end of the universe so his miracle is not for specific people or specific time, it is for all times since his message till the end.

So his miracle must pass all barriers of time and place and must support and document this long story.

Please stop wasting your time with quoting from a book before you give me a reason to accept it as true.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MIRACLE IS?

Give me evidence that miracles occur.

[happy forever]

.

Development: Why?

I explained evolutionary development. It just happens, and there is no evidence that anyone is causing it to happen. Religious people like to convince themselves that God is doing it, but there is no objective evidence for this.

And will never know simply because it is not actual.
Evolution means something is becoming developed through time emerging amid chaos and randomness as your balls example and the actual result of this concept is random universe magical not natural because natural means under the rules of nature but randomness and chance are not fixed to any rules so if you want to create a living body you will be able because there are no specific rules in creating it.

Becoming developed means becoming stronger, bigger, don't die or distructed because if the materials in existence makes existing and develop it, they will not let it to die.

Mindless developed universe doesn't include any rules or any destruction or any death just development or else there is a possibility to return to be like your ancestors an ape!


Give me one example of chance and randomness if you insist on them.

Destruction DOES occur! Stars go supernova. The universe is headed to an eventual heat death. Species die out. Destructive genetic mutations die out – automatically, because they cause the organism to die or at least to not procreate.

Why you look so far, you are a perfect example.
You say you are the result of billions years of random development, why you are not started with evolution and developed through these billions years or one million of the years? you started so recently new baby new brand new with new cells and new heart and new brain and now after development you grew and became young who was able to change things to better and then you will be so weak and will need help from your sons who were nothing recently then sperm then brand new babies.......and then you will turn to your origin dust and this dust will turn to be part of a living creature and so and so.
Where is the development here?

By the way, the word automatically means done independantly by 'itself' the word I wrote alot to you and you always write to me but not directly.


The creation is a great miracle but the actual meaning of miracle is something breaks the rules of nature and the rules of nature are set by The God and the one Who breaks them is He only.
That is why the miracles of Moses and Jesus were under the rules of nature.

There is only one miracle alive after the end of the messengers' eras.

The Munificent Quran, The Words of Allah

Allah sent His messenger Muhammad The book a guidance and light to all humanity whether in the past or now or in the future, ignorant, scientist, simple minded, smart, infidel, believer, age of negligance, age of science, Egyptian, American, Asians, African, European.

Here is one of its miracles:

“If mankind and the jinn were to gather together to produce the like of this Quran, they could never produce the like thereof, even if they backed up one another.� Quran 17:88


No one can produce the like of any chapter (Surah) in Quran even this very small Surah:

ب�سۡم� ٱلله� ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰن� ٱلرَّح�يم�ق�لۡ ه�وَ ٱللَّه� أَحَدٌ (١) ٱللَّه� ٱلصَّمَد� (٢) لَمۡ يَل�دۡ وَلَمۡ ي�ولَدۡ (٣) وَلَمۡ يَك�ن لَّه� ۥ ڪ���وًا أَحَدٌ (٤)


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful“Say: He is Allah the One and Only; (1) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (2) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (3) And there is none like unto Him. (4)� (112-4)

Not only that:

ٱللَّه� ٱلصَّمَد�(٢)

No one can produce the like of this small verse (miracle).

[fredonly]

Development: Why?

That's a meaningless question, like asking: when is blue? What color is that sound?

I explained evolutionary development. It just happens, and there is no evidence that anyone is causing it to happen. Religious people like to convince themselves that God is doing it, but there is no objective evidence for this.

And will never know simply because it is not actual.
Evolution means something is becoming developed through time emerging amid chaos and randomness...

You continue to misunderstand. Random: yes. Chaos: no. I described the way random events produce beneficial traits: this restricts what will occur.

... as your balls example and the actual result of this concept is random universe magical not natural because natural means under the rules of nature but randomness and chance are not fixed to any rules so if you want to create a living body you will be able because there are no specific rules in creating it.

It only seems like magic to someone who doesn't understand. Perhaps you don't want to understand. I don't really care, because you're giving me answers that deny I'm right, when you were supposed to be proving I'm wrong. You're refusing to accept what I say doesn't have any effect on my way of thinking whatsoever.

Becoming developed means becoming stronger, bigger, don't die or distructed because if the materials in existence makes existing and develop it, they will not let it to die.

Again, you just don't understand. You will never be able to make a credible argument that I'm wrong with this approach. I suggest you give up.

Mindless developed universe doesn't include any rules or any destruction or any death just development or else there is a possibility to return to be like your ancestors an ape!

You paid no attention to what I said. Evolution occurs because of the survival value of the random changes. Random change is highly unlikely to retrace its steps, and no change will occur if it doesn't have survival value. Your comment about my "ape ancestors" implies a refusal to accept the science of evolutionary biology. You have no logical argument against it, and this confirms to me you have no logical case at all. If you hoped to prove Islam as "logical," you have failed.

Give me one example of chance and randomness if you insist on them.

flip a coin

Destruction DOES occur! Stars go supernova. The universe is headed to an eventual heat death. Species die out. Destructive genetic mutations die out – automatically, because they cause the organism to die or at least to not procreate.

Why you look so far, you are a perfect example.
You say you are the result of billions years of random development, why you are not started with evolution and developed through these billions years or one million of the years? you started so recently new baby new brand new with new cells and new heart and new brain and now after development you grew and became young who was able to change things to better and then you will be so weak and will need help from your sons who were nothing recently then sperm then brand new babies.......and then you will turn to your origin dust and this dust will turn to be part of a living creature and so and so.
Where is the development here?

I was born, I live my life, I die. The only long term development is that of populations. Even populations die out. Species become extinct. Our sun will some day go nova, all life will disappear from our planet. I imagine you don't like the fact that the ultimate destination is non-existence. Perhaps that's why you believe in God, to help you feel better. Fine be me. Keep your faith so you can sleep at night. Personally, I prefer to accept reality.

By the way, the word automatically means done independantly by 'itself' the word I wrote alot to you and you always write to me but not directly.

OK, if this is what you meant - I'm fine with it. You seemed to imply the change was intentional, that someone would cause himself to change. It's certainly not intentional.

The creation is a great miracle but the actual meaning of miracle is something breaks the rules of nature and the rules of nature are set by The God and the one Who breaks them is He only....

Yes, yes, I know you believe in God. Perhaps you see the need to pray after getting dirty discussing this with me, but your (again) repeating your beliefs has absolutely no impact on me. I really do think it's best that we stop discussing this. Continue to believe whatever you want. You really have made zero progress with convincing me your beliefs are true. You can certainly be convinced I'm wrong. I don't care. Agree to disagree. You're still an interesting guy, and there are better things we can discuss.

Peace!