Quran Burining and Associated Killings

fredonly · Post by **fredonly** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:18 am

Afghan President asks US Congress to condemn Quran burning

Afghan protests continue against Qur'an burning

I have absolutely no problem with Muslims peacefully protesting the rude act of Quran burning. But what I cannot understand is why Muslims are not protesting the deaths of innocent people that were the result of these protests. Do Muslims consider a copy of their "sacred" book to be more important than a human life? I certainly hope not, but I'd like to hear that from the Muslims who participate on this site.

Are there stories about the protests my Muslim leaders over these deaths? I haven't seen any, so please post the links if you see one.

JayDeist · Post by **JayDeist** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:04 pm

Proving there is a "God", or first creator, does nothing to prove your religion. Religion is man's best attempt to explain the unexplainable. The Quran is no different. Proving a first cause has nothing to do with a book written by man, edited by man, printed by man, interpreted by man, translated by man, for man's own purpose. To control man.

You have done good to try and define a first cause, a prime mover, a creator. But how does this prove your religion? How does this prove the words in your Quran?

I am a believer in a God. But only of God of first cause. Not a God with a specific man given name. All religious philosophies are built on older religious philosophies, all the way back to the first man. If we can't explain it, then "God" did it. This is the first primitive religion, all other beliefs were built from this. Explaining the opinion that there must be a first cause, does nothing to "prove" your religion, or the Quran. Holy books are only good for indoctrination and control.

As for me, I believe God created the universe, whatever that God may be. But everything after that, came about from the fundamentals of the laws of nature.

happy forever · Post by **happy forever** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:24 am

JayDeist wrote:Proving there is a "God", or first creator, does nothing to prove your religion. Religion is man's best attempt to explain the unexplainable. The Quran is no different. Proving a first cause has nothing to do with a book written by man, edited by man, printed by man, interpreted by man, translated by man, for man's own purpose. To control man.

You have done good to try and define a first cause, a prime mover, a creator. But how does this prove your religion? How does this prove the words in your Quran?

I am a believer in a God. But only of God of first cause. Not a God with a specific man given name. All religious philosophies are built on older religious philosophies, all the way back to the first man. If we can't explain it, then "God" did it. This is the first primitive religion, all other beliefs were built from this. Explaining the opinion that there must be a first cause, does nothing to "prove" your religion, or the Quran. Holy books are only good for indoctrination and control.

As for me, I believe God created the universe, whatever that God may be. But everything after that, came about from the fundamentals of the laws of nature.

Al HAmdu Lilah

You believe in The One True God The Creator Who created you and me and Who is in His hands the kingdom of the heavens and the earth.

Welcome my Muslim brother.

I know you be surprised but do you know the meaning of Muslim?

Muslim means who submitted to The One God so Adam is a Muslim, Noah is a Muslim, Abraham is a Muslim, Moses is a Muslim, Jesus is a Muslim, Muhammad is a Muslim and all who believe in The One God The Creator anywhere and at any time are Muslims.

From this word is taken the name of my religion Islam: submission to The One True God.

You are saved Insha Allah as The God created man to know Him and to thank Him and you do know Him and I wish you thank Him.

And I wish you to be among these people:

"48. Surely Allah does not forgive that (anything) should be associated with Him, and He forgives (anything) whatever apart from that for whomever He decides; and whoever associates (anything) with Allah, then he has readily fabricated a tremendous vice." [4:48]

May The God guide you

JayDeist · Post by **JayDeist** » Mon May 09, 2011 9:07 am

I have been called muslim before, lol. Because of my views on Jesus, I've been called a jew a time or two also. I understand where you are coming from, but without the quran, I'm not much of a muslim. Since I see all bibles as man written books, I'm not the muslim you would like me to be.

I do not in any way condone the burning of the Quran, because of it's disrespectful, intolerant nature. But, I don't see how the burning of a copy of a book, should lead to slaughter of the innocent. The last report I heard is that there were at least 20 dead because of this. I did notice the lack of response about the violence that ensued. It is one of millions of copies of this book. I understand that muslims would get mad, but killing people over it, people that had nothing to do with it, is just ignorantly stupid. Should he burn about 100 Qurans now? to get back at you? Then how many people will you kill? This is exactly why I left organized and revealed religion. It has no moral code to live by, just violence, murder, war, and bigotry.

happy forever · Post by **happy forever** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:21 am

JayDeist wrote:I have been called muslim before, lol. Because of my views on Jesus, I've been called a jew a time or two also. I understand where you are coming from, but without the quran, I'm not much of a muslim. Since I see all bibles as man written books, I'm not the muslim you would like me to be.

I do not in any way condone the burning of the Quran, because of it's disrespectful, intolerant nature. But, I don't see how the burning of a copy of a book, should lead to slaughter of the innocent. The last report I heard is that there were at least 20 dead because of this. I did notice the lack of response about the violence that ensued. It is one of millions of copies of this book. I understand that muslims would get mad, but killing people over it, people that had nothing to do with it, is just ignorantly stupid. Should he burn about 100 Qurans now? to get back at you? Then how many people will you kill? This is exactly why I left organized and revealed religion. It has no moral code to live by, just violence, murder, war, and bigotry.

Thanks for your reply, my Muslim brother. I insist

You are a good man and you don't know what is Islam so your sense of histility will not change my impression about you.

Did you read Quran? I know the answer.

Yes, you are right. Muslims commit sins and are not perfect but who is perfect?

The God is The Only Who has the perfect names.

We are humans, so we are sinners. No man is complete, no man without sins and this is written in the bible and in spite of this Popes and priests turn themselves gods.
For Muslims no no one dare to say "I have a relation with god so follow me". HE would be in prison immediately. Ha

I think you are talking about something happened in Pakistan. Look, Pakistan is a special case, spots is on PAkistan now and for sure for political and economical reasons like Iraq and Afganistan and many others. Did you meet someone visited a Muslim country before? Ask him about Muslims and he will say "they are normal people like all people in the world so tell me why this concentration on Musllims?

Here in my country, Egypt, I hear about burning a church with hands of Muslims. Some say they are Salaf (a group trying to follow the instructions of Islam as much as they can) and some say they are thugs and some say there were some women prisoned in the church because they were Christians and turned to Islam.

To be frank with you I don't know the real reason but I know only one thing one common thing, Since I was born quarter century ago, I have never heared of something as such happened in Egypt Misr My country and Muslims and Christians live side by side work side by side. My couleage who works with me in the same office is a good woman and treat me better than my Muslim couleage.
There is christian neigbour and we exchange happy days and bad days.

I would like you to tell me yourself, why is this event happening now specially?

Concerning who were killed for the burning of some books of Quran, I think they were killed like those Egyptians who revolted against the tyrents and killed defending their honor and rights or what do you think?

Don't be decieved. Politics is a big trick so take care of the trick and don't accuse religions for some dirty hands think that they can draw history as they like.

happy forever · Post by **happy forever** » Tue May 10, 2011 6:54 am

JayDeist wrote:I have been called muslim before, lol. Because of my views on Jesus, I've been called a jew a time or two also. I understand where you are coming from, but without the quran, I'm not much of a muslim. Since I see all bibles as man written books, I'm not the muslim you would like me to be.

I do not in any way condone the burning of the Quran, because of it's disrespectful, intolerant nature. But, I don't see how the burning of a copy of a book, should lead to slaughter of the innocent. The last report I heard is that there were at least 20 dead because of this. I did notice the lack of response about the violence that ensued. It is one of millions of copies of this book. I understand that muslims would get mad, but killing people over it, people that had nothing to do with it, is just ignorantly stupid. Should he burn about 100 Qurans now? to get back at you? Then how many people will you kill? This is exactly why I left organized and revealed religion. It has no moral code to live by, just violence, murder, war, and bigotry.

I'm not the muslim you would like me to be

I would like or not, it is not related to me. You believe in Allah The One True God so you submit to Him so you are a Muslim.

(The word Allah is not just a name, it is a meaningful word with so deep meaning. One of its apparent meaning is Al: the. Ilah: God so Al Lah is The God. so simply)

We both believe in this:

In The Name of Allah, The All-Merciful, The Ever-Merciful.

"Praise be to Allah Who created the heavens and the earth, and made darkness (es) and light" Quran
"And He (is) The One Who created the night and the daytime, and the sun and the moon, each floating in an orbit."

"Allah turns about (i.e., alternates) the night and the day-time. Surely in that is indeed a lesson for the ones endowed with beholdings. (44) And Allah created every beast of water; so of them (is a kind) that goes (Literally: walks) upon itsbelly; and of them (there is a kind) that goes upon two legs, and of them (a kind) that goes upon four. Allah creates whatever He decides; surely Allah is Ever-Determiner of everything. (45) Indeed We have already sent down demonstrably evident signs, and Allah guides whomever He decides to a straight Path.(46)"

JayDeist · Post by **JayDeist** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:28 am

I love how you look for the likeness in our beliefs. That shows good character on your part. And I agree, I also believe in one true God and put NO form of man in front of him. I also agree that you can't judge a religion by any single person. I've always said a good religion doesn't necessarily make a good man. So with this I can understand where you are coming from. I think more than anything, people just wanted to hear a muslim say" I do not condone the violence from this." Just as we have stated that we do not condone the burning of the Quran.

happy forever · Post by **happy forever** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:15 pm

JayDeist wrote:I love how you look for the likeness in our beliefs. That shows good character on your part. And I agree, I also believe in one true God and put NO form of man in front of him. I also agree that you can't judge a religion by any single person. I've always said a good religion doesn't necessarily make a good man. So with this I can understand where you are coming from. I think more than anything, people just wanted to hear a muslim say" I do not condone the violence from this." Just as we have stated that we do not condone the burning of the Quran.

Islam is the religion of nature and you believe in Allah following your nature. Allah is nearer to us more than our jugular vein as He is Our Creator. You know that the disbeliever in Allah is called in Islam Kafir from Kufr which means cover. As if the disbeliever covers the fact of Allah, The Creator, which is existed in side his soul by nature.

May I know how did you turn to your nature and break the burdens of your parents' religion and your community's culture?

I know that we know Allah and become so near to Him at time of crisis, did you know Him from a crisis?

"And if misfortune touch a man he crieth unto Us, (while reclining) on his side, or sitting or standing, but when We have relieved him of the misfortune he goeth his way as though he had not cried unto Us because of a misfortune that afflicted him. Thus have the deeds of the transgressores been made fair-seeming unto the prodigal. (12)" [10:12]

" He it is Who maketh you to go on the land and the sea till, when ye are in the ships and they sail with them with a fair breeze and they are glad therein, a storm-wind reacheth them and the wave cometh unto them from every side and they deem that they are overwhelmed therein; (then) they cry unto Allah, making their faith pure for Him only: If Thou deliver us from this, we truly will be of the thankful. (22) Yet when He hath delivered them, behold! they rebel in the earth wrongfully. O mankind! Your rebellion is only against yourselves. (Ye have) enjoyment of the life of the world; then unto Us is your return and We shall proclaim unto you what ye used to do. (23) The similitude of the life of the world is only as water which We send down from the sky, then the earth's growth of that which men and cattle eat mingleth with it till, when the earth hath taken on her ornaments and is embellished, and her people deem that they are masters of her, Our commandment cometh by night or by day and We make it as reaped corn as if it had not flourished yesterday. Thus do we expound the revelations for people who reflect. (24)" [10:21/24]

I know you are not one of those people but are you one of those in Ayah (22)?

No, to say "I don't condone" is not enough. Do you think it is enough to defend the words of The God?

I know demonstration is a wrong way because it leads to killing, corruption, disorder, no peace and this is against Islam. We have to fight with the same weapon. They fight with politics so we must fight with politics.

Do you know that I was and am still against the Egyptian revolution 25 January 2011??

I would like to hear your opinion first.

And this is a present:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcdCG6uiHEQ[/url]

JayDeist · Post by **JayDeist** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:38 pm

"Do you think it is enough to defend the words of The God? "

Absolutely not.

Short of personal defense, NOTHING is worth murdering, or taking the life of another individual. Unless I am defending my family from an attacker, an attack on me or my family physically, I cannot condone murder, or violence in anyway. And even then, only if it is truly neccessary, and cannot be avoided.

You see, I believe in personal choice. Anyone can believe what they want. Who am I to say whether they are right or wrong? I don't have all the answers, nor do you. Nor does any human being on this planet. We are not smart enough to understand the whole concept of God, so we could never truly define him. There are 40 or so "Holy Books" that have existed in different religions from around the world. All of them claiming they are "inspired" by God. Of course, any believer in one of these religions will say that theirs is the only "true" word of God, and all others are wrong, and have not been inspired by God. None of these books are any more inspired by God than the rest of them. But that is my opinion, and I won't force it on anyone. It is up to the individual to make that choice himself. So no, killing for God is never, in anyway justified.

If you had the power, would you force everyone to believe in your God, Allah?

Would you force everyone to read your holy book?

JayDeist · Post by **JayDeist** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:50 pm

May I know how did you turn to your nature and break the burdens of your parents' religion and your community's culture?

I had always questioned, to myself, different things, that seemed far fetched to me, but never opened my mouth, because it felt disrespectful to. After I got old enough, and wise enough, I started questioning. After I questioned, I wanted to find answers. That started my internet search for answers. I have studied all the major religions, along with every other religion I could find information about, plus holy books, new age books, and online articles, forums, and websites. With all of the information I have studied, researched, and picked apart, I have to believe in Deism, because in it's simplest form, it just says, I believe in God, not myths, legend, or hearsay. I believe in God because I can see it in nature, and I feel it in my heart. This my friend, does not come from any one book.

happy forever · Post by **happy forever** » Tue May 10, 2011 2:06 pm

JayDeist wrote:"Do you think it is enough to defend the words of The God? "

Absolutely not.

Short of personal defense, NOTHING is worth murdering, or taking the life of another individual. Unless I am defending my family from an attacker, an attack on me or my family physically, I cannot condone murder, or violence in anyway. And even then, only if it is truly neccessary, and cannot be avoided.

You see, I believe in personal choice. Anyone can believe what they want. Who am I to say whether they are right or wrong? I don't have all the answers, nor do you. Nor does any human being on this planet. We are not smart enough to understand the whole concept of God, so we could never truly define him. There are 40 or so "Holy Books" that have existed in different religions from around the world. All of them claiming they are "inspired" by God. Of course, any believer in one of these religions will say that theirs is the only "true" word of God, and all others are wrong, and have not been inspired by God. None of these books are any more inspired by God than the rest of them. But that is my opinion, and I won't force it on anyone. It is up to the individual to make that choice himself. So no, killing for God is never, in anyway justified.

If you had the power, would you force everyone to believe in your God, Allah?

Would you force everyone to read your holy book?

your God, Allah

Why do you say so?
Allah is not Christ so you must believe in the word christ, Allah is not Budha so you must believe in the word Budha. Allah is an Arabic word means The One God and you believe in The One God so why do you say so?

Do you know why Allah sends religions?

"Deemed ye then that We had created you for naught, and that ye would not be returned unto Us? (115)" [23:115]

None of these books are any more inspired by God

Yes you are right because they are written by human except The Munificent Quran.

Do you know why?