Quran Burining and Associated Killings

[fredonly]

Afghan President asks US Congress to condemn Quran burning

Afghan protests continue against Qur'an burning

I have absolutely no problem with Muslims peacefully protesting the rude act of Quran burning. But what I cannot understand is why Muslims are not protesting the deaths of innocent people that were the result of these protests. Do Muslims consider a copy of their "sacred" book to be more important than a human life? I certainly hope not, but I'd like to hear that from the Muslims who participate on this site.


Are there stories about the protests my Muslim leaders over these deaths? I haven't seen any, so please post the links if you see one.

[Goat]

.

Imagine you are now a new man with a different mind not affected by any others' thoughts or concepts.

Sit alone, meditate your palm, its fingers, its fingertips, its skin, its hair, its arteries, its nails.

Take a mirror and meditate you face, your eyes, your nose, your lips, your hair, your cheeks, your eyelashes, your brows.

Then tell me:

WHO CREATED YOU?

As I explained, we are the result of natural causes. There is no evidence to the contrary. It appears to me that those who believe in God do so primarily because they were taught this and failed to question it. "God" explained your existence, and that of the universe, in a way that a child can understand. Humans don't like mysteries, they like answers - and the simpler answers are the most appealing. Personally, I'm more interested in TRUTH than simply having "answers."

I answered your question, now you answer mine: did you discover God entirely on your own, or did you simply accept what you were taught, beginning when you were a child? Did you ever question what you were taught? Why do you trust the people who taught you?

I was a believer when I was a child. As I got older I started asking questions about how my teachers could be so sure they were right. You, as a Muslim, surely feel that my Christian teachers were wrong - at least in certain ways (e.g. Jesus being God). What makes you so certain that your teachers were right and mine were wrong? What makes you so certain that ANY human has the correct answers about the supernatural? Why do you consider a supernatural to be needed to explain anything?

Islam is not like Christianity or any other religion. Islam is the only logical religion.
Heaven religions were the same then distorted by man so your old religion becomes a myth but Islam this new and last religion is kept pure for all generations till the end of the world and I have my logical evidence and miracle.
I am not a Muslim because of my parents. I did and do what you say because I have mind and respect my mind so I discuss with you using logic using mind.

Yes, you are right, there are natural causes and nature is the rules that are applied perfectly and nothing can break these very restrict accurate organized rules.
Now I want a logical answer to this question.

Who set these rules???

Who said there is a who? Why should there be a who? Can you show me that there is a who, rather than just a natural occurrence?

Why are you assuming a 'who'?

[fredonly]

.

Imagine you are now a new man with a different mind not affected by any others' thoughts or concepts.

Sit alone, meditate your palm, its fingers, its fingertips, its skin, its hair, its arteries, its nails.

Take a mirror and meditate you face, your eyes, your nose, your lips, your hair, your cheeks, your eyelashes, your brows.

Then tell me:

WHO CREATED YOU?

As I explained, we are the result of natural causes. There is no evidence to the contrary. It appears to me that those who believe in God do so primarily because they were taught this and failed to question it. "God" explained your existence, and that of the universe, in a way that a child can understand. Humans don't like mysteries, they like answers - and the simpler answers are the most appealing. Personally, I'm more interested in TRUTH than simply having "answers."

I answered your question, now you answer mine: did you discover God entirely on your own, or did you simply accept what you were taught, beginning when you were a child? Did you ever question what you were taught? Why do you trust the people who taught you?

I was a believer when I was a child. As I got older I started asking questions about how my teachers could be so sure they were right. You, as a Muslim, surely feel that my Christian teachers were wrong - at least in certain ways (e.g. Jesus being God). What makes you so certain that your teachers were right and mine were wrong? What makes you so certain that ANY human has the correct answers about the supernatural? Why do you consider a supernatural to be needed to explain anything?

Islam is not like Christianity or any other religion. Islam is the only logical religion.
Heaven religions were the same then distorted by man so your old religion becomes a myth but Islam this new and last religion is kept pure for all generations till the end of the world and I have my logical evidence and miracle.
I am not a Muslim because of my parents. I did and do what you say because I have mind and respect my mind so I discuss with you using logic using mind.

You are free to believe this, but I have no reason to accept what you say.

Yes, you are right, there are natural causes and nature is the rules that are applied perfectly and nothing can break these very restrict accurate organized rules.
Now I want a logical answer to this question.

Who set these rules???

I will assume by "rules" you mean the fundamental laws of the universe. These laws simply are what they are. There may be other universes with other laws, so that the laws we have are a product of random chance. Regardless, there's no reason to believe anyone "set them." To suggest the "rules" can only exist if someone creates the rules is no different than saying that nothing can exist unless someone creates it. If you think this proves there's need for a God/creator, then the same logic applies to God: who created him? A superior god? Then who created the superior god? This can go on forever. Clearly something had to be first, and there's no reason to suggest this "first thing" had to be anything supernatural.

Believe this story:
There were no house, but the bricks combined to make it then the doors run to close it then the windows come installed in it then the paint arrived to paint it then the carpets, the curtains, the furniture all settled in its suitable place.
You have too believe that all this happened by itself and randomly.
These inanimate things followed the rules of building a house but they all with no minds so the house was built randomly without a builder nor an organizer only the inanimate things and of course a human can't make this.
This is a very logical answer and it is not a condition that there must be a builder.

This is absurd and has nothing to do with the discussion. Houses are built by humans, and I've explained previously how humans came to be.

The God is The Creator not creature. If god is created then his creator is The God and this creature is not a god.
The One God is without a beginning and without and end. The God is The First and The Last.

Yes, I know you believe that. However, as I've said, there is absolutely no evidence of this. You have made a statement of faith.

If you believe something can exist "without a beginning and end" than why can't this thing simply be the natural universe itself (in a different form).

Let me be clear: I am not trying to convince you there is no God. You can believe whatever you like. However, I believe I have demonstrated that there is no logical proof that God exists. Your approach begins with the assumption that God exists, and that he created everything. That is an unproven assumption, not a deduction from logic. If you wish to prove God exists, you cannot begin with the assumption that he exists!

[happy forever]

.

Imagine you are now a new man with a different mind not affected by any others' thoughts or concepts.

Sit alone, meditate your palm, its fingers, its fingertips, its skin, its hair, its arteries, its nails.

Take a mirror and meditate you face, your eyes, your nose, your lips, your hair, your cheeks, your eyelashes, your brows.

Then tell me:

WHO CREATED YOU?

As I explained, we are the result of natural causes. There is no evidence to the contrary. It appears to me that those who believe in God do so primarily because they were taught this and failed to question it. "God" explained your existence, and that of the universe, in a way that a child can understand. Humans don't like mysteries, they like answers - and the simpler answers are the most appealing. Personally, I'm more interested in TRUTH than simply having "answers."

I answered your question, now you answer mine: did you discover God entirely on your own, or did you simply accept what you were taught, beginning when you were a child? Did you ever question what you were taught? Why do you trust the people who taught you?

I was a believer when I was a child. As I got older I started asking questions about how my teachers could be so sure they were right. You, as a Muslim, surely feel that my Christian teachers were wrong - at least in certain ways (e.g. Jesus being God). What makes you so certain that your teachers were right and mine were wrong? What makes you so certain that ANY human has the correct answers about the supernatural? Why do you consider a supernatural to be needed to explain anything?

Islam is not like Christianity or any other religion. Islam is the only logical religion.
Heaven religions were the same then distorted by man so your old religion becomes a myth but Islam this new and last religion is kept pure for all generations till the end of the world and I have my logical evidence and miracle.
I am not a Muslim because of my parents. I did and do what you say because I have mind and respect my mind so I discuss with you using logic using mind.

You are free to believe this, but I have no reason to accept what you say.

Yes, you are right, there are natural causes and nature is the rules that are applied perfectly and nothing can break these very restrict accurate organized rules.
Now I want a logical answer to this question.

Who set these rules???

I will assume by "rules" you mean the fundamental laws of the universe. These laws simply are what they are. There may be other universes with other laws, so that the laws we have are a product of random chance. Regardless, there's no reason to believe anyone "set them." To suggest the "rules" can only exist if someone creates the rules is no different than saying that nothing can exist unless someone creates it. If you think this proves there's need for a God/creator, then the same logic applies to God: who created him? A superior god? Then who created the superior god? This can go on forever. Clearly something had to be first, and there's no reason to suggest this "first thing" had to be anything supernatural.

Believe this story:
There were no house, but the bricks combined to make it then the doors run to close it then the windows come installed in it then the paint arrived to paint it then the carpets, the curtains, the furniture all settled in its suitable place.
You have too believe that all this happened by itself and randomly.
These inanimate things followed the rules of building a house but they all with no minds so the house was built randomly without a builder nor an organizer only the inanimate things and of course a human can't make this.
This is a very logical answer and it is not a condition that there must be a builder.

This is absurd and has nothing to do with the discussion. Houses are built by humans, and I've explained previously how humans came to be.

The God is The Creator not creature. If god is created then his creator is The God and this creature is not a god.
The One God is without a beginning and without and end. The God is The First and The Last.

Yes, I know you believe that. However, as I've said, there is absolutely no evidence of this. You have made a statement of faith.

If you believe something can exist "without a beginning and end" than why can't this thing simply be the natural universe itself (in a different form).

Let me be clear: I am not trying to convince you there is no God. You can believe whatever you like. However, I believe I have demonstrated that there is no logical proof that God exists. Your approach begins with the assumption that God exists, and that he created everything. That is an unproven assumption, not a deduction from logic. If you wish to prove God exists, you cannot begin with the assumption that he exists!

If anyone is developed according to his needs, can you interpret this:

On earth, there are different kinds of fruits and vegetables, and animals with different colors as if they are made for man. The delicious banana with its peer which is prepared to be peered by hands with fingers, an orange which is consisted of segments suit the size of human mouth.

These different plants are made as a gift for us whether their nice colors, delicious tastes, their shapes, their benefits for our health,,,

Another example, animals like horses, camels and donkeys as if they are created for human to ride them and carry his things.

of course we all have other amazing examples which prove that we are not made according to our needs or desires or else we will live in a selfish universe.

if we meditate accurately in this very organized universe, will find also that everything doesn’t know how he existed or how he works or what he will be, but all know naturally why they are existed except humans who have to do efforts to know why because again and again we are the only organisms with minds and earth is prepared for us to live according to the way we want.

The question again Who created us and who created the earth and who created the sun to lighten the earth half a day to leave us to take rest in dark in the other half of the day and who created the moon with light light in the evening and who created the souls? Specially that souls are not evolved nor made out of things.

No you didn't answer.

[fredonly]

.

Imagine you are now a new man with a different mind not affected by any others' thoughts or concepts.

Sit alone, meditate your palm, its fingers, its fingertips, its skin, its hair, its arteries, its nails.

Take a mirror and meditate you face, your eyes, your nose, your lips, your hair, your cheeks, your eyelashes, your brows.

Then tell me:

WHO CREATED YOU?

As I explained, we are the result of natural causes. There is no evidence to the contrary. It appears to me that those who believe in God do so primarily because they were taught this and failed to question it. "God" explained your existence, and that of the universe, in a way that a child can understand. Humans don't like mysteries, they like answers - and the simpler answers are the most appealing. Personally, I'm more interested in TRUTH than simply having "answers."

I answered your question, now you answer mine: did you discover God entirely on your own, or did you simply accept what you were taught, beginning when you were a child? Did you ever question what you were taught? Why do you trust the people who taught you?

I was a believer when I was a child. As I got older I started asking questions about how my teachers could be so sure they were right. You, as a Muslim, surely feel that my Christian teachers were wrong - at least in certain ways (e.g. Jesus being God). What makes you so certain that your teachers were right and mine were wrong? What makes you so certain that ANY human has the correct answers about the supernatural? Why do you consider a supernatural to be needed to explain anything?

Islam is not like Christianity or any other religion. Islam is the only logical religion.
Heaven religions were the same then distorted by man so your old religion becomes a myth but Islam this new and last religion is kept pure for all generations till the end of the world and I have my logical evidence and miracle.
I am not a Muslim because of my parents. I did and do what you say because I have mind and respect my mind so I discuss with you using logic using mind.

You are free to believe this, but I have no reason to accept what you say.

Yes, you are right, there are natural causes and nature is the rules that are applied perfectly and nothing can break these very restrict accurate organized rules.
Now I want a logical answer to this question.

Who set these rules???

I will assume by "rules" you mean the fundamental laws of the universe. These laws simply are what they are. There may be other universes with other laws, so that the laws we have are a product of random chance. Regardless, there's no reason to believe anyone "set them." To suggest the "rules" can only exist if someone creates the rules is no different than saying that nothing can exist unless someone creates it. If you think this proves there's need for a God/creator, then the same logic applies to God: who created him? A superior god? Then who created the superior god? This can go on forever. Clearly something had to be first, and there's no reason to suggest this "first thing" had to be anything supernatural.

Believe this story:
There were no house, but the bricks combined to make it then the doors run to close it then the windows come installed in it then the paint arrived to paint it then the carpets, the curtains, the furniture all settled in its suitable place.
You have too believe that all this happened by itself and randomly.
These inanimate things followed the rules of building a house but they all with no minds so the house was built randomly without a builder nor an organizer only the inanimate things and of course a human can't make this.
This is a very logical answer and it is not a condition that there must be a builder.

This is absurd and has nothing to do with the discussion. Houses are built by humans, and I've explained previously how humans came to be.

The God is The Creator not creature. If god is created then his creator is The God and this creature is not a god.
The One God is without a beginning and without and end. The God is The First and The Last.

Yes, I know you believe that. However, as I've said, there is absolutely no evidence of this. You have made a statement of faith.

If you believe something can exist "without a beginning and end" than why can't this thing simply be the natural universe itself (in a different form).

Let me be clear: I am not trying to convince you there is no God. You can believe whatever you like. However, I believe I have demonstrated that there is no logical proof that God exists. Your approach begins with the assumption that God exists, and that he created everything. That is an unproven assumption, not a deduction from logic. If you wish to prove God exists, you cannot begin with the assumption that he exists!

If anyone is developed according to his needs

Whatever gave you that idea? Individual species developed over time, and traits that had survival value to the species tended to proliferate.

can you interpret this:

On earth, there are different kinds of fruits and vegetables, and animals with different colors as if they are made for man. The delicious banana with its peer which is prepared to be peered by hands with fingers, an orange which is consisted of segments suit the size of human mouth.

The form of plants developed because of the survival value. If a designer planned all this, why didn't he make watermelons in segments? Why are there poisonous plants?

These different plants are made as a gift for us whether their nice colors, delicious tastes, their shapes, their benefits for our health,,,

You are very selective: the good things are a "gift." What about the bad things? Are these a punishment? The natural explanation works so much better, that plants and animals evolved due to competition and survivabilty.

Another example, animals like horses, camels and donkeys as if they are created for human to ride them and carry his things.

How do you explain that some animals do nothing but harm to humans? Natural selection explains everything. Some animals we were able to make direct use of, other animals we were not.

of course we all have other amazing examples which prove that we are not made according to our needs or desires or else we will live in a selfish universe.

I agree "we are not made according to our needs or desires." We are not "made" at all.

if we meditate accurately in this very organized universe, will find also that everything doesn’t know how he existed or how he works or what he will be, but all know naturally why they are existed except humans who have to do efforts to know why because again and again we are the only organisms with minds and earth is prepared for us to live according to the way we want.

Thank you again for your statement of faith, but I already realize you believe this. You do not, however, have a rational argument to prove you are right. Your meditations are based on your superstitious assumptions. You believe in the invisible and the magical, things about which there is no evidence. You see the state of the natural universe, and attribute it to magic. Science is far more reliable.

The question again Who created us and who created the earth and who created the sun to lighten the earth half a day to leave us to take rest in dark in the other half of the day and who created the moon with light light in the evening and who created the souls? Specially that souls are not evolved nor made out of things.

No you didn't answer.

I did answer: I outlined how our universe began, how the earth came to be, how life began, and species developed. You failed to comment on that, and instead simply look at the current state of the world and say, "God did it."

Do you truly not understand why day and night occurs? Are you unaware that the earth rotates, and only one side faces the sun at a time? Surely you know this. It's a perfect example of the way nature works - and you choose to express amazement that your imaginary, magical entity (god) made it all happen. I'm still waiting for you to prove that such an entity exists and that the universe didn't just happen.

I am still waiting for you to answer my question, "If you believe something can exist "without a beginning and end" than why can't this thing simply be the natural universe itself (in a different form).? I have additional questions:
- Do you deny evolution?
- Do you deny the natural formation of planets and stars?
- Do you deny the big bang?
- What natural explanations do you accept? Did God cause the earthquake in Japan? Does God cause you to breathe?

[happy forever]

.

Imagine you are now a new man with a different mind not affected by any others' thoughts or concepts.

Sit alone, meditate your palm, its fingers, its fingertips, its skin, its hair, its arteries, its nails.

Take a mirror and meditate you face, your eyes, your nose, your lips, your hair, your cheeks, your eyelashes, your brows.

Then tell me:

WHO CREATED YOU?

As I explained, we are the result of natural causes. There is no evidence to the contrary. It appears to me that those who believe in God do so primarily because they were taught this and failed to question it. "God" explained your existence, and that of the universe, in a way that a child can understand. Humans don't like mysteries, they like answers - and the simpler answers are the most appealing. Personally, I'm more interested in TRUTH than simply having "answers."

I answered your question, now you answer mine: did you discover God entirely on your own, or did you simply accept what you were taught, beginning when you were a child? Did you ever question what you were taught? Why do you trust the people who taught you?

I was a believer when I was a child. As I got older I started asking questions about how my teachers could be so sure they were right. You, as a Muslim, surely feel that my Christian teachers were wrong - at least in certain ways (e.g. Jesus being God). What makes you so certain that your teachers were right and mine were wrong? What makes you so certain that ANY human has the correct answers about the supernatural? Why do you consider a supernatural to be needed to explain anything?

Islam is not like Christianity or any other religion. Islam is the only logical religion.
Heaven religions were the same then distorted by man so your old religion becomes a myth but Islam this new and last religion is kept pure for all generations till the end of the world and I have my logical evidence and miracle.
I am not a Muslim because of my parents. I did and do what you say because I have mind and respect my mind so I discuss with you using logic using mind.

You are free to believe this, but I have no reason to accept what you say.

Yes, you are right, there are natural causes and nature is the rules that are applied perfectly and nothing can break these very restrict accurate organized rules.
Now I want a logical answer to this question.

Who set these rules???

I will assume by "rules" you mean the fundamental laws of the universe. These laws simply are what they are. There may be other universes with other laws, so that the laws we have are a product of random chance. Regardless, there's no reason to believe anyone "set them." To suggest the "rules" can only exist if someone creates the rules is no different than saying that nothing can exist unless someone creates it. If you think this proves there's need for a God/creator, then the same logic applies to God: who created him? A superior god? Then who created the superior god? This can go on forever. Clearly something had to be first, and there's no reason to suggest this "first thing" had to be anything supernatural.

Believe this story:
There were no house, but the bricks combined to make it then the doors run to close it then the windows come installed in it then the paint arrived to paint it then the carpets, the curtains, the furniture all settled in its suitable place.
You have too believe that all this happened by itself and randomly.
These inanimate things followed the rules of building a house but they all with no minds so the house was built randomly without a builder nor an organizer only the inanimate things and of course a human can't make this.
This is a very logical answer and it is not a condition that there must be a builder.

This is absurd and has nothing to do with the discussion. Houses are built by humans, and I've explained previously how humans came to be.

The God is The Creator not creature. If god is created then his creator is The God and this creature is not a god.
The One God is without a beginning and without and end. The God is The First and The Last.

Yes, I know you believe that. However, as I've said, there is absolutely no evidence of this. You have made a statement of faith.

If you believe something can exist "without a beginning and end" than why can't this thing simply be the natural universe itself (in a different form).

Let me be clear: I am not trying to convince you there is no God. You can believe whatever you like. However, I believe I have demonstrated that there is no logical proof that God exists. Your approach begins with the assumption that God exists, and that he created everything. That is an unproven assumption, not a deduction from logic. If you wish to prove God exists, you cannot begin with the assumption that he exists!

If anyone is developed according to his needs

Whatever gave you that idea? Individual species developed over time, and traits that had survival value to the species tended to proliferate.

can you interpret this:

On earth, there are different kinds of fruits and vegetables, and animals with different colors as if they are made for man. The delicious banana with its peer which is prepared to be peered by hands with fingers, an orange which is consisted of segments suit the size of human mouth.

The form of plants developed because of the survival value. If a designer planned all this, why didn't he make watermelons in segments? Why are there poisonous plants?

These different plants are made as a gift for us whether their nice colors, delicious tastes, their shapes, their benefits for our health,,,

You are very selective: the good things are a "gift." What about the bad things? Are these a punishment? The natural explanation works so much better, that plants and animals evolved due to competition and survivabilty.

Another example, animals like horses, camels and donkeys as if they are created for human to ride them and carry his things.

How do you explain that some animals do nothing but harm to humans? Natural selection explains everything. Some animals we were able to make direct use of, other animals we were not.

of course we all have other amazing examples which prove that we are not made according to our needs or desires or else we will live in a selfish universe.

I agree "we are not made according to our needs or desires." We are not "made" at all.

if we meditate accurately in this very organized universe, will find also that everything doesn’t know how he existed or how he works or what he will be, but all know naturally why they are existed except humans who have to do efforts to know why because again and again we are the only organisms with minds and earth is prepared for us to live according to the way we want.

Thank you again for your statement of faith, but I already realize you believe this. You do not, however, have a rational argument to prove you are right. Your meditations are based on your superstitious assumptions. You believe in the invisible and the magical, things about which there is no evidence. You see the state of the natural universe, and attribute it to magic. Science is far more reliable.

The question again Who created us and who created the earth and who created the sun to lighten the earth half a day to leave us to take rest in dark in the other half of the day and who created the moon with light light in the evening and who created the souls? Specially that souls are not evolved nor made out of things.

No you didn't answer.

I did answer: I outlined how our universe began, how the earth came to be, how life began, and species developed. You failed to comment on that, and instead simply look at the current state of the world and say, "God did it."

Do you truly not understand why day and night occurs? Are you unaware that the earth rotates, and only one side faces the sun at a time? Surely you know this. It's a perfect example of the way nature works - and you choose to express amazement that your imaginary, magical entity (god) made it all happen. I'm still waiting for you to prove that such an entity exists and that the universe didn't just happen.

I am still waiting for you to answer my question, "If you believe something can exist "without a beginning and end" than why can't this thing simply be the natural universe itself (in a different form).? I have additional questions:
- Do you deny evolution?
- Do you deny the natural formation of planets and stars?
- Do you deny the big bang?
- What natural explanations do you accept? Did God cause the earthquake in Japan? Does God cause you to breathe?

The natural universe!!!
Universe means the existence and nature means its rules.
Who sets the rules of the universe? The universe or the nature?
Yes, I deny evolution because of this question:
You always say evolved evolved, turn it to direct speech, who evolves?
The natural formation? I believe that the creation is organized by rules but these rules are not the ruler nor the organizer? As long as there are rules, there is ruler, or you have another opinion?
Yes and yes.
And now my questions are:
Do you believe that the universe made itself by itself?
Do you believe that the universe sets its rules by itself?
Do you believe that everything has a role and connected to the other and supports the other by itself?
Do you believe that you were an atom then a monkey then a human then a developed creature?

[fredonly]

The natural universe!!!
Universe means the existence and nature means its rules.

No, the universe includes the "rules," but I'll discuss the use of this term ('rules') later.

Who sets the rules of the universe? The universe or the nature

I already answered this. You failed to answer my question: who set's the rules of God?

Yes, I deny evolution because of this question:
You always say evolved evolved, turn it to direct speech, who evolves?
The natural formation? I believe that the creation is organized by rules but these rules are not the ruler nor the organizer? As long as there are rules, there is ruler, or you have another opinion?

Of course I have another opinion. Nature behaves in a consistent, predictable manner. This predictability has been analyzed and described as mathematical relationships - such as the relationship between mass and gravity, the speed of light, the interation of the various fundamental particles, etc. These observed mathematical relationships are sometimes called the "laws of physics" or the "laws of nature." You call them "rules," it seems so that you can play this word game and say "rules" implies there must be a ruler. Sorry, but word games don't prove anything. I'll show you how this can be used with God.

If there is a god, is he capable of creating a square circle? Can he create something, and then complete undo it- so that he has never actually created it (not simply destroy it, but truly change reality so that he never actually did it in the first place)? My point is that God himself, if he exists, must be subject to rules also. By your logic, then there must be someone who rules God.

And now my questions are:
Do you believe that the universe made itself by itself?

At this time it is impossible to know the absolute origin. We are quite certain that the universe essentially began at the big bang, about 14 billion years ago. There are hypotheses about what preceded the big bang, but science has not advanced to the state that it can say definitively what occurred. I realize, of course, that any gap in scientific knowledge provides a refuge for believers to insist "god did it." However, it is an unjustified assertion to demand that an intelligent being exists and is this cause, because there is no evidence that such an entity exists or can exist. It also create new questions? where is this entity? Who created him? What evidence is there that he existed? Even if he existed, does he exist now (perhaps the universe is the corpse of God). If you merely want to define "god" to be that unknown phenomenon that preceded the big bang - that's fine with me. It says nothing more, and certainly doesn't suggest this is a personal, intelligent god - the god of Abraham, for example.

Do you believe that the universe sets its rules by itself?

As I pointed out, the observed mathematical relationships about matter and energy are not rules imposed by someone. It's just the nature of the universe, just like God (if he exists) behaves according to HIS nature.

Do you believe that everything has a role and connected to the other and supports the other by itself?

There are ecological niches that have developed over time. There is no evidence anyone imposed this. It is a primitive view that assumes the order could only exist if someone caused it. We have learned a lot since primitive times.

Do you believe that you were an atom then a monkey then a human then a developed creature?

Of course not. I didn't change. The creature that is ME was born 57 years ago. My body is, of course, composed of atoms that have been in existence since a star exploded billions of years ago. I certainly do believe that the human race has common ancestry with monkeys and other primates. Are you aware of the genetic similarity between humans and chimpanzees? At least 95% of chimpanzee and human genes are identical. Genetic analysis is able to see which genes are different - and these differences are easily explained by genetic mutation.

The problem with your point of view is that you are forced to deny the findings of science, which has obtained its body of knowledge through objective analysis. Once again I'll tell you that you are free to believe whatever you like, but since you're now denying objective science - you have absolutely no objective case for trying to convince me you are right. A belief that is inconsistent with observed reality has no objective credibility.

[happy forever]

.

“It is We Who have created you: why will ye not witness the Truth? (57) Do ye then see?― The (human seed) that ye throw out,― (58) Is it ye who create it, or are We the Creator? (59) We have decreed Death to be your common lot, and We are not to be frustrated (60) From changing your Forms and creating you (again) in (Forms) that ye know not. (61) And ye certainly know already the first form of creation: why then do ye not celebrate His praises? (62) See ye the seed that ye sow in the ground? (63) Is it ye that cause it to grow or are We the Cause? (64) Were it Our Will, We could crumble it to dry powder, and ye would be left in wonderment (65) (Saying) "We are indeed left with debts (for nothing): (66) "Indeed are we shut out (of the fruits of our labour)." (67) See ye the water which ye drink? (68) Do ye bring it Down (in rain) from the Cloud or do We? (69) Were it Our Will, We could make it salt (and unpalatable): then why do ye not give thanks? (70) See ye the Fire which ye kindle? (71) Is it ye who grow the tree which feeds the fire, or do We grow it? (72) We have made it a reminder (of our handiwork), and an article of comfort and convenience for the denizens of deserts. (73) Then celebrate with praises the name of the Lord, the Supreme: (74)� [56-57/74] Quran
“It is He Who has created for you (the faculties of) hearing, sight, feeling, and understanding: little thanks it is ye give! (78) And He has multiplied you through the earth, and to Him shall ye be gathered back. (79) It is He Who gives life and death and to Him (is due) the alternation of Night and Day: will ye not then understand? (80) On the contrary they say things similar to what the ancients said. (81) They say: "What! when we die and become dust and bones, could we really be raised up again? (82) "Such things have been promised to us and to our fathers before! They are nothing but tales of the ancients!" (83) Say: "To whom belongs the earth and all beings therein? (Say) if ye know!" (84) They will say "To Allah!" Say: "Yet will ye not receive admonition?" (85) Say: "Who is the Lord of the seven heavens and the Lord of the Throne (of Glory) Supreme?" (86) They will say "(They belong) to Allah." Say: "Will ye not then be filled with awe?" (87) Say: "Who is it in whose hands is the governance of all things who protects (all) but is not protected (of any)? (Say) if ye know." (88) They will say "(It belongs) to Allah." Say: "Then how are ye deluded?" (89)� [23-78/89] Quran
“Allah! There is no God save Him, the Ever-Living, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous. (255)� [2-255] Quran

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcdCG6uiHEQ[/url]

[happy forever]

The natural universe!!!
Universe means the existence and nature means its rules.

No, the universe includes the "rules," but I'll discuss the use of this term ('rules') later.

Who sets the rules of the universe? The universe or the nature

I already answered this. You failed to answer my question: who set's the rules of God?

Yes, I deny evolution because of this question:
You always say evolved evolved, turn it to direct speech, who evolves?
The natural formation? I believe that the creation is organized by rules but these rules are not the ruler nor the organizer? As long as there are rules, there is ruler, or you have another opinion?

Of course I have another opinion. Nature behaves in a consistent, predictable manner. This predictability has been analyzed and described as mathematical relationships - such as the relationship between mass and gravity, the speed of light, the interation of the various fundamental particles, etc. These observed mathematical relationships are sometimes called the "laws of physics" or the "laws of nature." You call them "rules," it seems so that you can play this word game and say "rules" implies there must be a ruler. Sorry, but word games don't prove anything. I'll show you how this can be used with God.

If there is a god, is he capable of creating a square circle? Can he create something, and then complete undo it- so that he has never actually created it (not simply destroy it, but truly change reality so that he never actually did it in the first place)? My point is that God himself, if he exists, must be subject to rules also. By your logic, then there must be someone who rules God.

And now my questions are:
Do you believe that the universe made itself by itself?

At this time it is impossible to know the absolute origin. We are quite certain that the universe essentially began at the big bang, about 14 billion years ago. There are hypotheses about what preceded the big bang, but science has not advanced to the state that it can say definitively what occurred. I realize, of course, that any gap in scientific knowledge provides a refuge for believers to insist "god did it." However, it is an unjustified assertion to demand that an intelligent being exists and is this cause, because there is no evidence that such an entity exists or can exist. It also create new questions? where is this entity? Who created him? What evidence is there that he existed? Even if he existed, does he exist now (perhaps the universe is the corpse of God). If you merely want to define "god" to be that unknown phenomenon that preceded the big bang - that's fine with me. It says nothing more, and certainly doesn't suggest this is a personal, intelligent god - the god of Abraham, for example.

Do you believe that the universe sets its rules by itself?

As I pointed out, the observed mathematical relationships about matter and energy are not rules imposed by someone. It's just the nature of the universe, just like God (if he exists) behaves according to HIS nature.

Do you believe that everything has a role and connected to the other and supports the other by itself?

There are ecological niches that have developed over time. There is no evidence anyone imposed this. It is a primitive view that assumes the order could only exist if someone caused it. We have learned a lot since primitive times.

Do you believe that you were an atom then a monkey then a human then a developed creature?

Of course not. I didn't change. The creature that is ME was born 57 years ago. My body is, of course, composed of atoms that have been in existence since a star exploded billions of years ago. I certainly do believe that the human race has common ancestry with monkeys and other primates. Are you aware of the genetic similarity between humans and chimpanzees? At least 95% of chimpanzee and human genes are identical. Genetic analysis is able to see which genes are different - and these differences are easily explained by genetic mutation.

The problem with your point of view is that you are forced to deny the findings of science, which has obtained its body of knowledge through objective analysis. Once again I'll tell you that you are free to believe whatever you like, but since you're now denying objective science - you have absolutely no objective case for trying to convince me you are right. A belief that is inconsistent with observed reality has no objective credibility.

Science. Who can deny science. Scientifically this great universe started with an atom? Is it scientific analysis? What is the evidence of these logical analysis?
There are many atoms now, show mw an atom exploded by itself and able to make I will not say a universe but an atom like it.
Please, use your mind and give me proof of this myth.

Your anscestors are apes? Show me an ape turned a human. And apes were what? cockroach?
And hens were eggs? and earth was a sand? then what?
Complete your myth. Tell what happened then. Tell me how inanimate create an animate and how an animate cannot create inanimate or even create themselves.

Who make these all? Who? Who?

WHO CREATED YOU?

[happy forever]

The natural universe!!!
Universe means the existence and nature means its rules.

No, the universe includes the "rules," but I'll discuss the use of this term ('rules') later.

Who sets the rules of the universe? The universe or the nature

I already answered this. You failed to answer my question: who set's the rules of God?

Yes, I deny evolution because of this question:
You always say evolved evolved, turn it to direct speech, who evolves?
The natural formation? I believe that the creation is organized by rules but these rules are not the ruler nor the organizer? As long as there are rules, there is ruler, or you have another opinion?

Of course I have another opinion. Nature behaves in a consistent, predictable manner. This predictability has been analyzed and described as mathematical relationships - such as the relationship between mass and gravity, the speed of light, the interation of the various fundamental particles, etc. These observed mathematical relationships are sometimes called the "laws of physics" or the "laws of nature." You call them "rules," it seems so that you can play this word game and say "rules" implies there must be a ruler. Sorry, but word games don't prove anything. I'll show you how this can be used with God.

If there is a god, is he capable of creating a square circle? Can he create something, and then complete undo it- so that he has never actually created it (not simply destroy it, but truly change reality so that he never actually did it in the first place)? My point is that God himself, if he exists, must be subject to rules also. By your logic, then there must be someone who rules God.

And now my questions are:
Do you believe that the universe made itself by itself?

At this time it is impossible to know the absolute origin. We are quite certain that the universe essentially began at the big bang, about 14 billion years ago. There are hypotheses about what preceded the big bang, but science has not advanced to the state that it can say definitively what occurred. I realize, of course, that any gap in scientific knowledge provides a refuge for believers to insist "god did it." However, it is an unjustified assertion to demand that an intelligent being exists and is this cause, because there is no evidence that such an entity exists or can exist. It also create new questions? where is this entity? Who created him? What evidence is there that he existed? Even if he existed, does he exist now (perhaps the universe is the corpse of God). If you merely want to define "god" to be that unknown phenomenon that preceded the big bang - that's fine with me. It says nothing more, and certainly doesn't suggest this is a personal, intelligent god - the god of Abraham, for example.

Do you believe that the universe sets its rules by itself?

As I pointed out, the observed mathematical relationships about matter and energy are not rules imposed by someone. It's just the nature of the universe, just like God (if he exists) behaves according to HIS nature.

Do you believe that everything has a role and connected to the other and supports the other by itself?

There are ecological niches that have developed over time. There is no evidence anyone imposed this. It is a primitive view that assumes the order could only exist if someone caused it. We have learned a lot since primitive times.

Do you believe that you were an atom then a monkey then a human then a developed creature?

Of course not. I didn't change. The creature that is ME was born 57 years ago. My body is, of course, composed of atoms that have been in existence since a star exploded billions of years ago. I certainly do believe that the human race has common ancestry with monkeys and other primates. Are you aware of the genetic similarity between humans and chimpanzees? At least 95% of chimpanzee and human genes are identical. Genetic analysis is able to see which genes are different - and these differences are easily explained by genetic mutation.

The problem with your point of view is that you are forced to deny the findings of science, which has obtained its body of knowledge through objective analysis. Once again I'll tell you that you are free to believe whatever you like, but since you're now denying objective science - you have absolutely no objective case for trying to convince me you are right. A belief that is inconsistent with observed reality has no objective credibility.

Science. Who can deny science. Scientifically this great universe started with an atom? Is it scientific analysis? What is the evidence of these logical analysis?
There are many atoms now, show mw an atom exploded by itself and able to make I will not say a universe but an atom like it.
Please, use your mind and give me proof of this myth.

Your anscestors are apes? Show me an ape turned a human. And apes were what? cockroach?
And hens were eggs? and earth was a sand? then what?
Complete your myth. Tell what happened then. Tell me how inanimate create an animate and how an animate cannot create inanimate or even create themselves.

Who make these all? Who? Who?

WHO CREATED YOU?

[fredonly]

The natural universe!!!
Universe means the existence and nature means its rules.

No, the universe includes the "rules," but I'll discuss the use of this term ('rules') later.

Who sets the rules of the universe? The universe or the nature

I already answered this. You failed to answer my question: who set's the rules of God?

Yes, I deny evolution because of this question:
You always say evolved evolved, turn it to direct speech, who evolves?
The natural formation? I believe that the creation is organized by rules but these rules are not the ruler nor the organizer? As long as there are rules, there is ruler, or you have another opinion?

Of course I have another opinion. Nature behaves in a consistent, predictable manner. This predictability has been analyzed and described as mathematical relationships - such as the relationship between mass and gravity, the speed of light, the interation of the various fundamental particles, etc. These observed mathematical relationships are sometimes called the "laws of physics" or the "laws of nature." You call them "rules," it seems so that you can play this word game and say "rules" implies there must be a ruler. Sorry, but word games don't prove anything. I'll show you how this can be used with God.

If there is a god, is he capable of creating a square circle? Can he create something, and then complete undo it- so that he has never actually created it (not simply destroy it, but truly change reality so that he never actually did it in the first place)? My point is that God himself, if he exists, must be subject to rules also. By your logic, then there must be someone who rules God.

And now my questions are:
Do you believe that the universe made itself by itself?

At this time it is impossible to know the absolute origin. We are quite certain that the universe essentially began at the big bang, about 14 billion years ago. There are hypotheses about what preceded the big bang, but science has not advanced to the state that it can say definitively what occurred. I realize, of course, that any gap in scientific knowledge provides a refuge for believers to insist "god did it." However, it is an unjustified assertion to demand that an intelligent being exists and is this cause, because there is no evidence that such an entity exists or can exist. It also create new questions? where is this entity? Who created him? What evidence is there that he existed? Even if he existed, does he exist now (perhaps the universe is the corpse of God). If you merely want to define "god" to be that unknown phenomenon that preceded the big bang - that's fine with me. It says nothing more, and certainly doesn't suggest this is a personal, intelligent god - the god of Abraham, for example.

Do you believe that the universe sets its rules by itself?

As I pointed out, the observed mathematical relationships about matter and energy are not rules imposed by someone. It's just the nature of the universe, just like God (if he exists) behaves according to HIS nature.

Do you believe that everything has a role and connected to the other and supports the other by itself?

There are ecological niches that have developed over time. There is no evidence anyone imposed this. It is a primitive view that assumes the order could only exist if someone caused it. We have learned a lot since primitive times.

Do you believe that you were an atom then a monkey then a human then a developed creature?

Of course not. I didn't change. The creature that is ME was born 57 years ago. My body is, of course, composed of atoms that have been in existence since a star exploded billions of years ago. I certainly do believe that the human race has common ancestry with monkeys and other primates. Are you aware of the genetic similarity between humans and chimpanzees? At least 95% of chimpanzee and human genes are identical. Genetic analysis is able to see which genes are different - and these differences are easily explained by genetic mutation.

The problem with your point of view is that you are forced to deny the findings of science, which has obtained its body of knowledge through objective analysis. Once again I'll tell you that you are free to believe whatever you like, but since you're now denying objective science - you have absolutely no objective case for trying to convince me you are right. A belief that is inconsistent with observed reality has no objective credibility.

Science. Who can deny science. Scientifically this great universe started with an atom? Is it scientific analysis? What is the evidence of these logical analysis?
There are many atoms now, show mw an atom exploded by itself and able to make I will not say a universe but an atom like it.
Please, use your mind and give me proof of this myth.

No,the universe did not start with an atom, but the evidence shows that all the matter of the universe was at one time compressed into a very small space. If you believe God created the universe, you may very well decide the big bang didn't happen - or you may decide the the big bang was the act of creation. I don't care what you believe. I simply follow the evidence that you choose to reject. If you would like me to accept your belief, you will have to provide the proof that the big bang didn't happen, despite the evidence, or prove that God caused it.

Your anscestors are apes? Show me an ape turned a human. And apes were what? cockroach?
And hens were eggs? and earth was a sand? then what?
Complete your myth. Tell what happened then. Tell me how inanimate create an animate and how an animate cannot create inanimate or even create themselves.

Evolution and abiogenesis are the best explanations available to explain the diversity and origin of life. You prefer to believe that God created everything as it is, in its current state. I don't mind - but if you want me to believe this, you'll need to provide me evidence. If you think the Quran or Old Testament are "proof" then provide me proof that these books are true, and that they are not simply myths.

Who make these all? Who? Who?
WHO CREATED YOU?

I see no evidence that anyone created me. I've outlined the scientific explanation. You don't agree with it. I don't care, because as I said - you can believe whatever you want to believe. However, if you want me to start accepting your beliefs as true, you will have to provide me proof. Your rejecting of my scientific explanations does nothing but declare your own faith. Prove to me there is a creator. Prove to me this creator has intelligence. Prove to me this intelligent creator has directly interacted with human beings. Prove to me there can be prophets. Prove to me Jesus and Muhammed were prophets. Prove to me your sacred books are correct.

To be honest, I would prefer to discuss the situation in the political situation in the Middle East with you. The events are fascinating, and I think you could help me understand the situation better than I can by reading the news on the Internet.