How do Islam followers reconcile Christians they perceive as

[salvation2011]

Pretty much what the title says... If a Christian is someone who is in shirk (violation of commandments, right? and to worship Jesus or a death on a cross is in violation), but you know a Christian who is otherwise a good, nice person, how do you reconcile that? Can you reconcile that, or is that person, no matter how nice or good, essentially an infidel?

I am facing this right now as God has led me to read the bible (finally) and I am seeing that in order to be Christian one must believe in the fallacy of the trinity, worship a carved symbol (some made with a dead man on it), must drink blood of christ, believe that Jesus is God... all violations of the original 10 commandments. I had made friends at the church I was attending for 4 years, and many are nice people, but Im trying to reconcile what their fate is with thinking of "how can this be for this is a nice person?" Fooled into idolatry and sin... They were fooled not by Jesus himself, but seemingly by Peter and Saul/Paul decades after Jesus was on the cross.

Do you know Christians whom you like as people and yet, have conflict over them bc of their choice of worship? Thanks!

[Murad]

G'day mormon boy & Meow Mix.

Your questions please me; as i do enjoy answering theological question.

Murad, do you mind if i ask some questions?

Absolutely not; whatever comes to your mind, ask away.

You explained shirk earlier, being that following anything but monotheism is an unforgivable sin. (Only unforgivable sin?)

Yes, the only unforgivable sin.

How do you view other christian denominations who do not accept the trinity, as my question would imply, im most interested in how you would view mormons (myself being one.)

The Trinity is not the only form of Shirk, mormonism preaches a different style of Shirk:

“I will preach on the plurality of Gods… I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.�

—Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370

When the concept of Jesus being divine was first introduced by the Christian Church (Before mormonism); 600 years later God (in Islam) revealed:

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers.
(Quran 4:171)

Thus, when we analyse the teachings of Joseph Smith; inarguably we see that he taught a plurality of Gods; The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit; which in Islam is the most blatant form of Shirk; the unforgivable sin is to divide the pureness of the singular God. Abraham did not worship 3 God's; nor did David/Solomon/Jesus or the Islamic Prophet Muhammad(pbuh); thus we see it as a later Christian concoction to explain the proposition of Jesus' supposed divinity.

To conclude:

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

—Qur'an sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayah17

If Hell isn't eternal, do those punished in Hell eventually see Paradise if they see the error of their ways and genuinely atone?

There is a famous hadith reported by Abdullah(r.a), a disciple of Muhammad(pbuh):

Narrated 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "I know the person who will be the last to come out of the (Hell) Fire, and the last to enter Paradise. He will be a man who will come out of the (Hell) Fire crawling, and Allah will say to him, 'Go and enter Paradise.' He will go to it, but he will imagine that it had been filled, and then he will return and say, 'O Lord, I have found it full.' Allah will say, 'Go and enter Paradise, and you will have what equals the world and ten times as much (or, you will have as much as ten times the like of the world).' On that, the man will say, 'Do you mock at me (or laugh at me) though You are the King?" I saw Allah's Apostle (while saying that) smiling that his premolar teeth became visible. It is said that will be the lowest in degree amongst the people of Paradise.

- Sahih Bukhari (Book #76, Hadith #575)

Ultimately; the "Hell-Dwellers" will enter paradise. However if their sins are great (like hitler/osama/saddam), they will not even smell the scent of paradise.

If Heaven isn't eternal, what happens after a long time to those who are in it?

Everything gets destroyed ultimately, however, that may be billions or trillions of years:

The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said,: “Allah will roll up the heavens on the Day of Resurrection, then He will hold them in His Right Hand and will say, ‘I am the King. Where are the tyrants? Where are the arrogant ones?’�
[Sahih Muslim]

Thank you for your responses. Out of all the Abrahamic faiths -- at least, of what I know about them, which overall isn't much in terms of the specific ideologies and histories -- I think I like Islam the best. I mean no disrespect when I say that it has some of the worst followers (in the modern age -- seems it was reversed in the Islamic Golden Age while Christians were slaughtering everyone including one another) but it also has some of the best ones.

Without a doubt muslims have the most black sheeps; although it's a shame that the 1.8 Billion muslims get demonised for a minority group.

(Saladin comes to mind)

Saladin personifies the concept of virtuous war.

I guess what really keeps me from it is that I doubt a god exists and therefore also doubt anyone was really a prophet. I disagree with some of the rules (I love pork, and think alcohol is OK when done safely), I'd have a really hard time waking up and attending to prayers all the time, and I doubt that a god would really care that much about prayer.

Im sure if Jews/Muslims ate pork without knowing that it is pork; they would love it too. However that's not the point of the restriction; Islam teaches that animals can only be eaten if they are killed by cutting the jugular vein and leaving all other veins and organs intact; this is impossible with pigs.

I agree, alcohol can be ok if it's taken in minimal doses; but it's better to avoid a harmful substance all-together.

Aside from my personal doubts, though, I think of the Abrahamic faiths Islam gets the most "right." I still think it gets a lot wrong, though. Too much wrong for me to consider conversion. But less so than the others.

Here are a few misconceptions answered

If your questions are not answered there, i would be more than happy to answer them here. If your questions are about LGBT, i would be glad to clarify a few points.

[Wootah]

What is shirk?

[Kuan]

What is shirk?

Its explained earlier, but its basically not being monotheistic.

[Kuan]

G'day mormon boy & Meow Mix.

Your questions please me; as i do enjoy answering theological question.

Murad, do you mind if i ask some questions?

Absolutely not; whatever comes to your mind, ask away.

You explained shirk earlier, being that following anything but monotheism is an unforgivable sin. (Only unforgivable sin?)

Yes, the only unforgivable sin.

How do you view other christian denominations who do not accept the trinity, as my question would imply, im most interested in how you would view mormons (myself being one.)

The Trinity is not the only form of Shirk, mormonism preaches a different style of Shirk:

“I will preach on the plurality of Gods… I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.�

—Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370

When the concept of Jesus being divine was first introduced by the Christian Church (Before mormonism); 600 years later God (in Islam) revealed:

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers.
(Quran 4:171)

Thus, when we analyse the teachings of Joseph Smith; inarguably we see that he taught a plurality of Gods; The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit; which in Islam is the most blatant form of Shirk; the unforgivable sin is to divide the pureness of the singular God. Abraham did not worship 3 God's; nor did David/Solomon/Jesus or the Islamic Prophet Muhammad(pbuh); thus we see it as a later Christian concoction to explain the proposition of Jesus' supposed divinity.

To conclude:

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

—Qur'an sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayah17

Okay, this makes sense, although I would like to continue with the conversation. Is it shirk to consider more than one individual divine? Being mormon, we believe in one true god. Jesus and the holy ghost are not gods, but are still divine. They follow gods will and do his bidding.

[Wootah]

What is shirk?

Its explained earlier, but its basically not being monotheistic.

I didn't see anything concise did you?

[Kuan]

What is shirk?

Its explained earlier, but its basically not being monotheistic.

I didn't see anything concise did you?

Want to explain?

[Murad]

What is shirk?

Its explained earlier, but its basically not being monotheistic.

I didn't see anything concise did you?

Shirk is associating partners with Allah, or dividing his Tawhid. Believing in magical talismans/luck charms, also fall under shirk, as you are giving a material object power & putting your faith in that object instead of putting it in God. There is also "secret shirk", for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_%28Islam%29

Okay, this makes sense, although I would like to continue with the conversation. Is it shirk to consider more than one individual divine?

Yes that falls under Shirk, no angel or prophet is divine. The concept of divinity belongs solely to God, this is also vigerously emphasised in the Jewish Texts:

Exodus 20:

1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Being mormon, we believe in one true god. Jesus and the holy ghost are not gods, but are still divine. They follow gods will and do his bidding.

Mormonism shares the same view as JehovahsWitnesses, that there is one Al-Mighty (Father) & two lesser Gods (Son & Spirit). By believing in this you are associating partners with God, which is shirk in Judaism & Islam:

"You shall have no other gods before me.
(Exodus 20:3)

"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.
(Isaiah 48:12)

Also in the Quran:

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

(Surah Ikhlas)

[Kuan]

Okay, thank you for th answers, it was great learning more about Islam!

[Wootah]

Shirk is associating partners with Allah, or dividing his Tawhid. Believing in magical talismans/luck charms, also fall under shirk, as you are giving a material object power & putting your faith in that object instead of putting it in God. There is also "secret shirk", for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_%28Islam%29

It just seems like sin to me. How is it different to sin?

Why do you keep quoting the OT or the NT when we know you think those books are corrupt? How do you know the verses you pick aren't the corrupt ones? I've never understood how Muslims can believe in a God that can't preserve his own holy books.

[Murad]

Shirk is associating partners with Allah, or dividing his Tawhid. Believing in magical talismans/luck charms, also fall under shirk, as you are giving a material object power & putting your faith in that object instead of putting it in God. There is also "secret shirk", for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_%28Islam%29

It just seems like sin to me. How is it different to sin?

It is the most grave sin in the sight of God.

Why do you keep quoting the OT or the NT when we know you think those books are corrupt? How do you know the verses you pick aren't the corrupt ones?

You are presenting fallacious reasoning; when i talk to a hindu i quote from the vedas; when i talk to a Jew i quote from the OT & the Talmud; and when i talk to a Christian i quote from the 66 books of the Bible. I am using their source to get my messege across; it does not mean i accept their whole scripture as true.

I've never understood how Muslims can believe in a God that can't preserve his own holy books.

And i've never understood how Christians boast about 24,000 New Testament manuscripts and yet fail miserably to produce an identical pair.