A post Wootah made in the "Are Mormons Christian" thread got me thinking.
In order to be a christian, does one have to believe in the Trinity?
Christianity and the Trinity
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Kuan
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Christianity and the Trinity
Post #1"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
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Goat
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Re: Christianity and the Trinity
Post #2There are a number of groups that do not believe in the Trinity.. such as the Jehovah Witnesses, the Mormons (as yo know), the arians, the oneness pentacostal. They all claim to be Christian.mormon boy51 wrote:A post Wootah made in the "Are Mormons Christian" thread got me thinking.
In order to be a christian, does one have to believe in the Trinity?
Me, I am not Christian, so I won't get involved in that. That is above my pay scale.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
Steven Novella
Re: Christianity and the Trinity
Post #3Well first you need to state what the trinity is?mormon boy51 wrote:A post Wootah made in the "Are Mormons Christian" thread got me thinking.
In order to be a christian, does one have to believe in the Trinity?
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sleepyhead
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Post #4
Hello,
My understanding is that the trinity was developed so that Christianity could still consider itself a monotheism, and still believe that Jesus is God.
My understanding is that the trinity was developed so that Christianity could still consider itself a monotheism, and still believe that Jesus is God.
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sleepyhead
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Post #5
Hello,
After some thaught I remember I was on another forum with alot of mormons. They said that they didn't believe in the trinity, yet they believe Jesus is God (I think). I wasn't able to get any type of clear difference between Mormon beliefs and the Christian teaching of the trinity.
After some thaught I remember I was on another forum with alot of mormons. They said that they didn't believe in the trinity, yet they believe Jesus is God (I think). I wasn't able to get any type of clear difference between Mormon beliefs and the Christian teaching of the trinity.
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Wootah
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Post #6
To be clear I classify as Christian as anyone that thinks Jesus died on the cross for their sins and will be using Jesus's sacrifice as their defence on judgement day.
Understanding all the rest, that Jesus is God, the trinity, whatever is 'just a bonus'.
I question how people go from accepting my first sentence to not understanding all the rest but that is off topic.
Understanding all the rest, that Jesus is God, the trinity, whatever is 'just a bonus'.
I question how people go from accepting my first sentence to not understanding all the rest but that is off topic.
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Fides et Veritas
Post #7
I think I would instead ask how can one call themselves a Christian and adhere to and claim to believe things that are not based upon the Bible and instead are simply borrowed from paganism.
The trinity doctrine, immortal souls, eternal punishing, Xmas and Easter (to name but a few) are all pagan in origin.
Any one of these can be brushed aside by simply following the application of just four simple scriptures:
They are as follows:
1. Isaiah 28:10 (KJV) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.
2. I Thessalonians 5: 21 -22 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast to that which is good. Abstain for the appearance of Evil.
3. II Peter 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation.
These three, not exactly in that order mind you, are the key to debunking popular and non biblical pagan beliefs attached to Jesus Christ's name.
First remember to study all scriptures associated with a subject not just itsy little bits of them. (Example: I John 5:7 was added to the Bible by a Catholic Scribe. It is not in the original text anywhere. It appears for the first time in the Latin Vulgate Edition Bible. If you only hold on to this verse than the Trinity is true. But if you start to compare than you will find that it isn't Biblical at all.)
Next remember to prove out what you are taught. Make sure that it jives with what the Bible says. Follow things up with a good Lexicon and Concordance. Only retain the beliefs that the Bible proves true. If it does not appear compatible with the Bible then it is evil and should not be followed or believed in. (Example: You will not find a single reference to keeping Xmas or a command to celebrate Jesus Christ's birthday. You will find through the Bible and any encyclopedia that the customs are entirely pagan. This makes it evil)
Following up with remember its not about what you want the Bible to say or what others tell you it says, but only what it does say. (Example: The Born Again Doctrine. Many say they are born again yet Christ makes absolutely clear that there is a difference between Spirit and Flesh and that only one can enter into the Kingdom of God. He does not 'hint' at a combine of the two but instead is emphatic that they are separate. Go look at I Corinthians 15 and see that Paul also makes it abundantly clear that there are two separate types of entities. One Spirit and one Flesh.)
The trinity doctrine, immortal souls, eternal punishing, Xmas and Easter (to name but a few) are all pagan in origin.
Any one of these can be brushed aside by simply following the application of just four simple scriptures:
They are as follows:
1. Isaiah 28:10 (KJV) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.
2. I Thessalonians 5: 21 -22 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast to that which is good. Abstain for the appearance of Evil.
3. II Peter 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation.
These three, not exactly in that order mind you, are the key to debunking popular and non biblical pagan beliefs attached to Jesus Christ's name.
First remember to study all scriptures associated with a subject not just itsy little bits of them. (Example: I John 5:7 was added to the Bible by a Catholic Scribe. It is not in the original text anywhere. It appears for the first time in the Latin Vulgate Edition Bible. If you only hold on to this verse than the Trinity is true. But if you start to compare than you will find that it isn't Biblical at all.)
Next remember to prove out what you are taught. Make sure that it jives with what the Bible says. Follow things up with a good Lexicon and Concordance. Only retain the beliefs that the Bible proves true. If it does not appear compatible with the Bible then it is evil and should not be followed or believed in. (Example: You will not find a single reference to keeping Xmas or a command to celebrate Jesus Christ's birthday. You will find through the Bible and any encyclopedia that the customs are entirely pagan. This makes it evil)
Following up with remember its not about what you want the Bible to say or what others tell you it says, but only what it does say. (Example: The Born Again Doctrine. Many say they are born again yet Christ makes absolutely clear that there is a difference between Spirit and Flesh and that only one can enter into the Kingdom of God. He does not 'hint' at a combine of the two but instead is emphatic that they are separate. Go look at I Corinthians 15 and see that Paul also makes it abundantly clear that there are two separate types of entities. One Spirit and one Flesh.)
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tomcat3443
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Re: Christianity and the Trinity
Post #8mormon boy51 wrote:
A post Wootah made in the "Are Mormons Christian" thread got me thinking.
In order to be a christian, does one have to believe in the Trinity?
To be a Christian we need to follow the teachings of as written in the Bible. 1 Peter 2:21
21 In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU,+ leaving YOU a model* for YOU to follow his steps closely.+ Jesus did not believe in the trinity. The teaching of the trinity did not come about until long after Jesus and his Apostles died. If he was alive and people tied to teach that he was God he would have said as he did back then. John 14:28, RS: “ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.� Showing they were two sperate people. If Jesus was God would he say this. John 20:17 No the Bible does not teach that Gog is a trinity. The Bible is very simple: when it says Jesus is the Son of God thay is what it means. Son not God !!!!!
17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers+ and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father+ and YOUR Father and to my God+ and YOUR God.’�+
Yes,Jesus had a Father and a God just as it says in the Bible. So to be a Christian we must had fast to what the Bible teaches, not men.
Re: Christianity and the Trinity
Post #9[Replying to post 1 by Kuan]
You might want to phrase your question like this...
"Does a Christian have to believe the 4th Century AD doctrine of the trinity?"
Answer: Nope. The Bible doesn't teach it - doesn't even contain the word trinity. It wasn't invented until the 4th century. A true Christian wouldn't believe it.
You might want to phrase your question like this...
"Does a Christian have to believe the 4th Century AD doctrine of the trinity?"
Answer: Nope. The Bible doesn't teach it - doesn't even contain the word trinity. It wasn't invented until the 4th century. A true Christian wouldn't believe it.
Re: Christianity and the Trinity
Post #10It just depends on what you mean by "Christian."Kuan wrote: In order to be a christian, does one have to believe in the Trinity?
For instance, if you mean "one who is going to Heaven to be with Jesus who is also Jehovah and the Holy Ghost," then there are no Christians.
If, by "Christian," you mean one who follows the law (Romans 2:6, 13) then those who follow the law are Christians.
If, by "Christian," you mean one who repents (Luke 13:3, 5) then those who repent are Christians.
Clearly, there is no agreement on what a Christian is. http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/saved.html
So it's just a matter of what you mean by the word.
One might look for a right/correct/authoritative meaning, but in matters of doctrine, one opinion is as good as the next.
Personally, I like to define it this way: A Christian is someone who points at another Christian, and says, "You're not a real Christian."
