Should Muslims Undergo a Religous Test for Public Office?

[Darias]

Please watch this video about GOP hopeful Herman Cain, as he clarifies his stance on Muslims:

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1. Is he (Mr. Cain) right? Why? If so, should the Constitution be amended to make exception for people of the Muslim Faith?

2. Does the GOP have any serious candidates who could actually win in 2012? Trump Cain and Palin aside?

[Choir Loft]

Is he (Mr. Cain) right? Why? If so, should the Constitution be amended to make exception for people of the Muslim Faith?

2. Does the GOP have any serious candidates who could actually win in 2012? Trump Cain and Palin aside?[/b]

I spent two years in the middle east. I lived and had commerce with Muslims in their own countries. I learned one very important lesson from that experience.

Muslims are honest, but you can't trust them.

[Darias]

I think a cold war with Islam is under way, if not imminent. I do personally believe that any practising Muslim is only loyal to Allah/Mohammad and most importantly Sharia. I think the jihad mentality is a switch that is clearly possible to be turned on.

I think it takes only some honesty from the young turks to look at the facts right now in the world. Life under Islam appears to suck for everyone and not just the minorities. If religion wasn't involved and your next door neighbour made his women dress that way we would have the police involved.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

It's the sharia, the enshrining of 7th century values that is the problem. If your loyalty isn't to the country or is suspect then I would not hire you for those types of roles. My heart breaks for Muslims but outreach doesn't mean giving them your house and if you know (and we know what they teach) why is it even debatable?

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=44147

The thing is, Sharia is not a unified doctrine. Sharia is essentially religious law. It is not much different than Levitical law, and it is interpreted many ways from liberally to literally.

The number of Islamic terrorist in the world number to about a fraction of a percent.

The fact that bin laden interpreted his religion radically, while incorporating politics, doesn't mean the rest of the Muslim world thought like he did.

It's really, extremely, unfair.

No one wants a terrorist in a presidential cabinet, but one simply doesn't enter that office with ease. There are security clearances and extensive background checks, and that should be enough to determine the loyalty of an individual; if you want a loyalty test -- make it for everyone, not just Muslims, because that implies that Muslims "can't be trusted, aren't really Americans, etc."

I've been around Muslims. I've been to a mosque. I see them on campus, many of whom are women. I've seen them with veils, without veils etc. One of my friends was from a Muslim family but since became secular -- and God d----- these are good people. You can't convince me that all of these people have blood-lust in their heart, just waiting to kill -- that's essentially paranoid hate, period.

I do not want any Sharia Law in the country nor do I want any Evangelical Laws in this country -- I see both as damaging and unconstitutional and honestly -- the idea Sharia Law could ever usurp our law is laughable. But the fact is Evangelical religious laws threaten the equality of Americans -- from gay marriage to DADT to whatever. I ain't worried about Sharia law cause it will never happen here. I am worried about Jerry-Falwell Law because that's always a threat -- from Prohibition to sodomy laws, to segregation, to anti-feminism (against women's suffrage), to anti-interracial marriage laws, to the "Defense of Marriage Act" -- all can pretty much be blamed on conservative fundamentalist Christian beliefs throughout the 20th century and beyond. It's a threat every time we get a presidential candidate who can't comprehend the first amendment, separation of church and state, etc. Sure they can be Christians and believe whatever they want -- but despite being for "state's rights" they tend to federally impose their belief system on society because they feel equality is harmful.

By the way, most people in this country would probably identify as Christian before they would American -- so when Muslims do the same thing, I don't think that warrants alarm. It really depends on how they interpret their faith, whether it mirrors WBC or Rick Warren -- and it's pretty easy to get a feel for where they stand when you ask them.

[Darias]

Is he (Mr. Cain) right? Why? If so, should the Constitution be amended to make exception for people of the Muslim Faith?

2. Does the GOP have any serious candidates who could actually win in 2012? Trump Cain and Palin aside?[/b]

I spent two years in the middle east. I lived and had commerce with Muslims in their own countries. I learned one very important lesson from that experience.

Muslims are honest, but you can't trust them.

Well that's my point. This is about American Muslims not Muslims in other countries and societies.

If you were in Afghanistan, the most hard line conservative Muslim country on the planet, I could see where you get your views.

If you go to any non-Western country, you will have to barter a lot. It's how people make a living. How can you take your experiences at a market in Baghdad or wherever you were and superimpose those onto American Muslims, many of whom are westernized? How can you label all Muslims as "untrustworthy"

I mean I think that's total BS...

[Choir Loft]

If you go to any non-Western country, you will have to barter a lot. It's how people make a living. How can you take your experiences at a market in Baghdad or wherever you were and superimpose those onto American Muslims, many of whom are westernized? How can you label all Muslims as "untrustworthy"

I mean I think that's total BS...

Muslims are honest, but you can't trust them.

It isn't bull, it's reality. I didn't quite understand that either when I first found myself among them, but I kept my eyes open and I learned. It's true. They are honest in that they will keep their law, but they will twist it to their own ends for their own purposes when your back is turned. You really have to keep a sharp eye on them. It isn't bigotry or BS. It's true. I lived it.

If the reader fails to acknowledge the truth of it they will one day pay for their foolishness at the hands of the Muslim they trusted.

One question.

Are American women now ready to surrender all the legal, social and moral rights they've fought so long and hard to obtain?

What will they gain in return? The right to be oppressed, to have their right of choice taken from them? The right to be beaten publicly and privately if men so choose? I am not making any of this up.

...and we've not even gotten close to the very real punishment and prohibitions upon the gay community....are they ready to surrender all they've won as well?

WAKE UP AMERICA. PAY ATTENTION.

[Darias]

If you go to any non-Western country, you will have to barter a lot. It's how people make a living. How can you take your experiences at a market in Baghdad or wherever you were and superimpose those onto American Muslims, many of whom are westernized? How can you label all Muslims as "untrustworthy"

I mean I think that's total BS...

Muslims are honest, but you can't trust them.

It isn't bull, it's reality. I didn't quite understand that either when I first found myself among them, but I kept my eyes open and I learned. It's true. They are honest in that they will keep their law, but they will twist it to their own ends for their own purposes when your back is turned. You really have to keep a sharp eye on them. It isn't bigotry or BS. It's true. I lived it.

If the reader fails to acknowledge the truth of it they will one day pay for their foolishness at the hands of the Muslim they trusted.

One question.

Are American women now ready to surrender all the legal, social and moral rights they've fought so long and hard to obtain?

What will they gain in return? The right to be oppressed, to have their right of choice taken from them? The right to be beaten publicly and privately if men so choose? I am not making any of this up.

...and we've not even gotten close to the very real punishment and prohibitions upon the gay community....are they ready to surrender all they've won as well?

WAKE UP AMERICA. PAY ATTENTION.

I don't know what country you went to or what interactions you had with the people there, but just because such interactions may have gone sour, it doesn't mean that all Muslims are potential time-bombs who hate this country and want to kill people -- I don't know how any adult could come to that conclusion rationally.

If you were serving overseas in an American military uniform, odds are the villagers are probably not going to like you, as you represent -- what they have been taught their whole lives -- an "oppressive country." I personally don't think our nation is oppressive, but that doesn't mean I condone all of its actions either; I digress.

The point is, cultures are different. And just because one person happens to behave a certain way in one country, it doesn't necessarily apply to all Muslims everywhere.


"It's reality" and "wake up America" are empty baseless statements that stir other hearts and minds to embrace a prejudicial falsehood, a stereotype.

There is nothing to wake up to. Yes, there are radical jihadists who seek to bring death upon us. Yes, there are Muslims in Muslim countries who don't like America's foreign policy and are at the same time not terrorists. And yes, there are countless moderate and "peaceful Muslims" in this world. This is reality, not "they're all evil and they wanna kill us...."

Anyone with the slightest concept of what Islam actually teaches, and who has any idea of whats happening in the world, would not come to that conclusion.

If you want to demonize Islam based upon the Qur'an, you could do that, just as you could demonize Moses using Leviticus -- it's not hard to cherry pick.

The hard thing to do is to actually let go of irrational prejudice and fear. It's not about being politically correct, it's about not embracing bigotry. I'm not saying you have to go around kissing a Qur'an or say "peace be upon him" when you mention Muhammad, but I am saying how about not hating and demonizing an entire group of millions and millions of people based upon some interactions you had in some marketplace in Sandistan.

American Muslims deserve the same rights and dignity as other Americans. American Muslims died in the towers on 9/11, whilst working along side other Americans. American Muslims were members of the fire department and police who tried saving people on that day.

Trying to vilify and demonize and label such empty rhetoric as "reality" might get you some where with fearful people who don't know anything about Islam and don't have any Muslim friends, but it won't get very far among an educated and reasonable audience.


Sharia law is never going to happen in this country. If Muslim women want to where a head scarf out of religious obligation, like the Amish do, let them. It's not a crime.

If Muslims want their food products to be Halal, and companies choose to market themselves to their customers cultural and religious needs, that's not Sharia law, any more than Kosher = a "Rabbinic take over of America."

In America there are many kinds of Muslims, ever heard of this guy?



Kareem Abdul Jabbar. He plays basketball, he wouldn't hurt a fly.

Hey check out this 9/11 hero:

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There are countless inconvenient realities like this -- all of which make statements like "they're honestly untrustworthy" look really retarded. Sorry, if that challenges your world view but stereotypes are too easily defeated with facts.


As for gay people, yes in some Muslim countries it is criminal, but did you know that evangelical Christian Uganda has recently put forth a bill that punishes gays with capital punishment... and it's all thanks to the teachings and fear-mongering of people like Jerry Falwell, Rick Warren, and Don Schmierer -- the living of whom now regret their choice of words.

Honestly I'm much more worried about Evangelical Fundamentalism becoming law than Sharia. I mean you can already see it's effects in the former DADT policy as well as the present Defense of Marriage amendment. Those are things which viably threaten equality for gays in America, Muslims on the other hand, are only guilty of building Mosques in Tennessee and elsewhere -- or as Gingrich calls them "terrorist factories." Yes the GOP agrees that when it comes to the First Amendment it's "Christians Only." -- well except for Ron Paul (I might actually vote for the guy).

[East of Eden]

Please watch this video about GOP hopeful Herman Cain, as he clarifies his stance on Muslims:

[center][youtube][/youtube][/center]


1. Is he (Mr. Cain) right? Why? If so, should the Constitution be amended to make exception for people of the Muslim Faith?

2. Does the GOP have any serious candidates who could actually win in 2012? Trump Cain and Palin aside?

1. No, but we do need to drop the political correctness that led to the Ft. Hood tragedy, for example.

2. Check the polls, Romney beats Obama. The way Obama is going, I think Elmer Fudd could beat Obama.

[Wootah]

Is he (Mr. Cain) right? Why? If so, should the Constitution be amended to make exception for people of the Muslim Faith?

2. Does the GOP have any serious candidates who could actually win in 2012? Trump Cain and Palin aside?[/b]

I spent two years in the middle east. I lived and had commerce with Muslims in their own countries. I learned one very important lesson from that experience.

Muslims are honest, but you can't trust them.

Well that's my point. This is about American Muslims not Muslims in other countries and societies.

If you were in Afghanistan, the most hard line conservative Muslim country on the planet, I could see where you get your views.

If you go to any non-Western country, you will have to barter a lot. It's how people make a living. How can you take your experiences at a market in Baghdad or wherever you were and superimpose those onto American Muslims, many of whom are westernized? How can you label all Muslims as "untrustworthy"

I mean I think that's total BS...

So why would we expect them to fit in in the West? You are getting to some of the root issues. Like all valuable things, freedom and democracy are fragile.

[Wootah]

Darias,

I believe you but I just think Islam is different. All the muslims you can cite function in our society to the extent that they are not muslim.

There is nothing to wake up to. Yes, there are radical jihadists who seek to bring death upon us. Yes, there are Muslims in Muslim countries who don't like America's foreign policy and are at the same time not terrorists. And yes, there are countless moderate and "peaceful Muslims" in this world. This is reality, not "they're all evil and they wanna kill us...."

By stereotyping our position you do muslims a disservice. They will never leave the chains of tyranny behind if you make them think of us as enemies. There is a better way of life available, we need to show them (cold war) and help those that wish to break free. A 7th century bandit is no person to look up to and it is up to us moderates to not shirk from reminding them of this.

[Darias]

Darias,

I believe you but I just think Islam is different. All the muslims you can cite function in our society to the extent that they are not muslim.

Look, I consider myself a Christian: yet I believe in Evolution, support equal rights for LGBT persons, and don't believe that the Bible is inerrant.

If there was a litmus test for "true Christian" and that test was defined by how literally one read the scriptures, or how fundamental their beliefs were -- then I would be defined not as a good Christian but by which extent I wasn't a "true Christian"

I find that position ludicrous.

Because of this, I believe that there can be all sorts of Muslims, radicals, fundamentalists, conservatives, moderates, and liberals. And I also believe that the more moderate interpretations and members of Islam best reflect the heart and nature of their faith -- in much the same way I believe that moderate and liberal Christians best reflect the Christian faith.

And how one defines the nature of any particular religion is determined by how one views a religion. If you view a religion as inherently violent and wrong, you can cherry-pick till your hearts content and find all you need to arrive at your conclusion -- and similarly if you view the heart of a religion as essentially good, you'll find nice good things all day long...

and if you define the heart of a religion based upon the founders of it, you still base that view on how you perceive the founders -- if you view the group of founders as essentially good, then you will define the religion by their standards, and the same thing if you view them as evil.

The thing is in every religion there are founders who say good and bad stuff, and there is usually more than one person who develops the religion.

[Tuff]

1. Is he (Mr. Cain) right? Why? If so, should the Constitution be amended to make exception for people of the Muslim Faith?

He's not right....or wrong. When Herman states he's not comfortable with appointing a Muslim, there are others who would agree with that. The host of the video says "Well if he said this about Jews" and tries to compare the two.

The two situations are not the exact same. There is a clear noticeable difference between the Muslim religion and other world religions in relation to terrorism. The members of that faith have been involved in far more terrorist related incidents in recent times, than any other religion. This is fact. Now, some may not like Cain indirectly stating that, or me stating it here, but can anyone deny that? To quote John Adams: "Facts are stubborn things." Sure Islam CAN function, but if you look at the whole picture - if you look at Europe and the culture clashes over there and PM Cameron's speeches about how Muslims needs to assimilate better, and the track record of terror and that religion, Cain is not THAT off the mark. It will rub people the wrong way, but in all seriousness I appreciate his honesty. Most candidates would say "Nah I have no problem" and secretly have a problem off camera.

2. Does the GOP have any serious candidates who could actually win in 2012? Trump Cain and Palin aside?

Trump isn't running, Palin may not. Cain is running, and might draw some support for his stance on Muslims, we'll see. Santorum and Pawlenty are both out. Right now, Michelle Bachmann is making gains. Rick Perry may enter, but not big on him. GOP still pushing Chris Christie to run, he could defeat Obama IMO.