Is there any biological evidence of special creation?

[McCulloch]

Is there any biological evidence of special creation?

God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, livestock, creeping things, and animals of the earth after their kind;” and it was so. God made the animals of the earth after their kind, and the livestock after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind. God saw that it was good.
God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them. God said to them, “Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” God said, “Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree, which bears fruit yielding seed. It will be your food. To every animal of the earth, and to every bird of the sky, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food;” and it was so.

This seems to indicate, whether you are a literalist or not, that god created humans distinctly and separately from the other animals. However, the fact remains that genetically we are little more than bald chimps - chimpanzees are more closely related to us than they are to gorillas. If taxonomists could get around the political resistance,

there are not one but three species of genus Homo on Earth today: the common chimpanzee, Homo troglodytes; the pygmy chimpanzee, Homo paniscus; and the third chimpanzee or human chimpanzee, Homo sapiens." (p.21)

The biological evidence points to our common evolution (or creation, if you will) with the chimpanzees, separate from the gorillas, gabons and monkeys. Is there any biological evidence of special creation for homo sapiens?

[QED]

While this thread is asking for biological evidence of special creation, I believe the underlying question is "what proof is there that God exists using biology as the only argument". Here lies the difficulty as biology, being a physical science, has a tendency to show physical mechanisms and origins.

Of course there is a much bigger underlying question, however that's clearly beyond the scope of this particular debate. The specific area of interest is the exclusive claim of the theist that man is special, having been set up in gods image (whatever that means). While we are doomed to struggle with concepts of spirit (which are by definition beyond the scope of critical appraisal) we can look critically at ourselves using biology and anthropology and ask if there is anything in our physiology that is unprecedented in other species.

I think it's reasonable to say that the conclusion is that we are very much just another branch of Earthbound life. A branch that is very young, but contains a common heritage that can be traced all the way to the first known examples of living organisms. This conclusion clearly contradicts the story in Genesis which requires yet another awkward rationalization if it is to be made compatible.

[Curious]

This conclusion clearly contradicts the story in Genesis which requires yet another awkward rationalization if it is to be made compatible.

It is a real shame that so many people equate Genesis=false with God is not real. The Bible seems to have unprecedented power in turning thinking people away from theism.

[QED]

It is a real shame that so many people equate Genesis=false with God is not real. The Bible seems to have unprecedented power in turning thinking people away from theism.

I can understand your frustration. An obvious appraisal of the bible is that it represent late Iron-age mans attempts to capture the apparent mysteries of the world in poetic metaphor. But you seem to feel that the essence of that which they were responding is still a valid mystery. If only it were possible to decouple this form the clumsy web woven around it by religious dogma.

Even when we strip away the muddle of the biblical creation story and the attendant myth of Flood and so on, we are still faced with a philosophy that puts man on an ill-deserved pedestal. It just seems like such an obvious mistake for us to make -- to think that everything has been set-up just for us. What can we point to that shows we can afford to be so arrogant? My modesty is brought on by engaging in an honest appraisal of history both by considering the ancient images that can be viewed in the nighttime sky and the impressions left in the rocks around me.

Once we put ourselves on an equal footing with our surroundings then I suggest that the question of the existence of god is simply a moot point.

[Curious]

Even when we strip away the muddle of the biblical creation story and the attendant myth of Flood and so on, we are still faced with a philosophy that puts man on an ill-deserved pedestal. It just seems like such an obvious mistake for us to make -- to think that everything has been set-up just for us. What can we point to that shows we can afford to be so arrogant? My modesty is brought on by engaging in an honest appraisal of history both by considering the ancient images that can be viewed in the nighttime sky and the impressions left in the rocks around me.

Once we put ourselves on an equal footing with our surroundings then I suggest that the question of the existence of god is simply a moot point.

Not all theists believe that humanity is any different from other forms of life. There is an obvious difference in degree but that is all. I don't see how being set apart from the rest of animal-kind is in any way necessary for belief in, or existence of, God. Then again, this is not the view of many Christians.

[israeltour]

Is there a threshold at which you would start considering the difference in degree a result of special creation?

No. Differences only of degree speak to me of nothing more than differential adaptation.

Purely subjective differences between us and animals won't cut it for me. Evidence of special creation would have to be something utterly unprecedented.

Can it be an accomplishment? Like space travel?

[israeltour]

I think it's reasonable to say that the conclusion is that we are very much just another branch of Earthbound life. A branch that is very young, but contains a common heritage that can be traced all the way to the first known examples of living organisms. This conclusion clearly contradicts the story in Genesis which requires yet another awkward rationalization if it is to be made compatible.

Why is the contradiction so clear? It contradicts the YEC interpretation of Genesis, but that perspective is not necessarily correct. The YEC interpretation isn't really literal if take a real look at the scripture. A more literal interpretation, combined with some modern scientific perspective, will take you in a completely different direction. Is it complex? No doubt. But calling something awkward often indeicates that you haven't looked at it seriously. After all, Calculus is awkward, too, but it got us to the moon. I'm shooting a little bit further. The fact that something is awkward is not proof it's wrong.

[israeltour]

Even when we strip away the muddle of the biblical creation story and the attendant myth of Flood and so on, we are still faced with a philosophy that puts man on an ill-deserved pedestal.

Either you do not understand the gospel, or the Christians you've met have been pretty arrogant. The entire point of the Gospel is that only God is worthy of being put on a pedestal.

It just seems like such an obvious mistake for us to make -- to think that everything has been set-up just for us.

The differences I see make it obvious to me.

What can we point to that shows we can afford to be so arrogant?

What you see as arrogance, I see as God's love.

My modesty is brought on by engaging in an honest appraisal of history both by considering the ancient images that can be viewed in the nighttime sky and the impressions left in the rocks around me.

Me too... difference is I think I'm seeing God's thumb print (figuratively speaking)... it makes me feel tiny, but loved.

Once we put ourselves on an equal footing with our surroundings then I suggest that the question of the existence of god is simply a moot point.

I'd make almost the same statement...

Perhaps you perceive God after all... you just don't recognize Him as such because of how misrepresented He is by mankind. The crusades, slavery, Jerry Fallwell, Jim Bakker, bombing abortion clinics, etc., are not of God.

[QED]

I'm going to cut to the chase which really resides in these last few points:

What can we point to that shows we can afford to be so arrogant?

What you see as arrogance, I see as God's love.

Few would argue that our heightened sense of consciousness isn't a mixed blessing. I've seen enough of life already to realise that some people simply couldn't live without the crutch of a promise of infinite mercy (just so long as it is received well out of sight of any conscious observer). If this equates to gods love then it comes too late IMHO. For this reason I'm passionate about us fulfilling our own responsibilities to show mercy on each other.

My modesty is brought on by engaging in an honest appraisal of history both by considering the ancient images that can be viewed in the nighttime sky and the impressions left in the rocks around me.

Me too... difference is I think I'm seeing God's thumb print (figuratively speaking)... it makes me feel tiny, but loved.

Are you absolutely sure that you will always enjoy that loving feeling? This thumb you speak of would seem to be poised above us all in a very intimidating way.

Once we put ourselves on an equal footing with our surroundings then I suggest that the question of the existence of god is simply a moot point.

I'd make almost the same statement...

Perhaps you perceive God after all... you just don't recognize Him as such because of how misrepresented He is by mankind. The crusades, slavery, Jerry Fallwell, Jim Bakker, bombing abortion clinics, etc., are not of God.

Even if I could perceive god (and I don't) then from what I see happening in the world around me I would assess him as being 100% malevolent but only something like 80% effective.

[israeltour]

QED,

I think we understand each other. I'm hoping we have at least achieved a little clarity, if nothing else. Many of our views and observations are the same, except I have faith and you do not, and as usual, it's from there we diverge. Perhaps you would say the difference is that I need a crutch and you do not, and it's from therewe diverge.

I'm going to cut to the chase which really resides in these last few points:

What can we point to that shows we can afford to be so arrogant?

What you see as arrogance, I see as God's love.

Few would argue that our heightened sense of consciousness isn't a mixed blessing. I've seen enough of life already to realise that some people simply couldn't live without the crutch of a promise of infinite mercy

If you can forgive insult of me praying for you, then I can forgive the insult of you implying my faith a crutch.

If this equates to gods love then it comes too late IMHO.

You mean after death? I understand what you mean, but from my perspective, His love started flowing long before I was ever born.

For this reason I'm passionate about us fulfilling our own responsibilities to show mercy on each other.

Frankly, you have arrived at the attitude that Jesus tells us to have. The fact that it appears "written on your heart", so to speak, is awesome.

My modesty is brought on by engaging in an honest appraisal of history both by considering the ancient images that can be viewed in the nighttime sky and the impressions left in the rocks around me.

Me too... difference is I think I'm seeing God's thumb print (figuratively speaking)... it makes me feel tiny, but loved.

Are you absolutely sure that you will always enjoy that loving feeling?

I'm not saying I always enjoy it now. After all, I still get upset at times, and it can be hard accepting love from anyone when I'm upset.

This thumb you speak of would seem to be poised above us all in a very intimidating way.

It might seem so... but it's more like how my son views me (he's 3) when he seeks the security of my arms. At those times I'm safe, not intimidating.

Even if I could perceive god (and I don't) then from what I see happening in the world around me I would assess him as being 100% malevolent but only something like 80% effective.

Well, I'll spare you the free will argument about evil... you probably know it as well as I do. Let it suffice that if I interpreted my observations the same as you, I too would conclude God doesn't exist... because the alternative would be too horrible.