'God'/'Jesus' - Invisible/Imaginary Friends For Adults

[I AM ALL I AM]

Imaginary friend

Imaginary friends and imaginary companions are a psychological and social phenomenon where a friendship or other interpersonal relationship takes place in the imagination rather than external physical reality. Imaginary friends are fictional characters created for improvisational role-playing. They often have elaborate personalities and behaviors. They may seem real to their creators, though they are ultimately unreal, as shown by studies.

Imaginary friends are made often in childhood, sometimes in adolescence, and rarely in adulthood. They often function as tutelaries when played with by a child. They reveal, according to several theories of psychology, a child's anxieties, fears, goals and perceptions of the world through that child's conversations. They are, according to some children, physically indistinguishable from real people, while others say they see their imaginary friends only in their heads. There's even a third category of imaginary friend recognition: when the child doesn't see the imaginary friend at all, but can only feel his/her presence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friend

G'day.

1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

2. What difference is there between children with imaginary friends and adults that believe in 'God'/'Jesus' ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

3. Should those that have invisible/imaginary friends be stopped from being in charge of countries and making decisions for the nation, including international relationships ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

4. "Some child development professionals still believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." Does a belief in invisible/imaginary friends as an adult show "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

5. Are those that do not have invisible/imaginary friends the ones with "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

[Filthy Tugboat]

Fair enough, how do you know he's invisible? He could be visible... and.. hiding?

Because He's omnipresent and I can't see Him

Is he? What does it really mean to be omnipresent?

To be everywhere at once

OK, if he's everywhere at once and he's invisible, that only accounts for one sense being incapable of sensing him, why can't we touch, taste, smell or hear him? I suppose some people think they can hear him but I haven't even heard him brush past a wall or knock something over. If he's everywhere at once does that mean he is inside us as well? And inside walls and other inanimate objects? How does that work?

I guess because our senses are severely limited. The amount of electromagnetic radiation that occupies the visible bandwidth that you and I can experience is really a fraction of what is going on all around us. Same goes for hearing and touch. Some scientists today believe in a multi-verse that is made up of 10 spatial dimensions, but we can only see 3. Carl Sagan believed that if a creature from a higher dimension were to comunicate with you and I it would actually sound as if its voice was coming from within us.... hmm?

Yes that's exactly what I believe. I believe that "we see through a glass darkly and one day we will know just as we are known"

I don't really know what this means, how are we known? How does that relate to what we will know?

I think we see God through His creation,

So God is his creation? Is this a pantheistic sort of view? Or God is not creation but anything we can learn about God can be seen in his creation?

we feel Him through the effects of His working in our lives

He works in our lives? So he causes things to happen outside of creation? Does this mean creation is not going as planned?

and we hear Him through His Spirit when we read His word.

He has a word? Can we read his word without hearing his spirit? What is spirit? What is his spirit?

P.S. I thought for sure you were going to hammer me on the hearing voices in my head comment... maybe you felt sorry for me?

Why would I hammer you on that? Why does my not hammering you on that mean I felt sorry for you? People (on this site especially) come from diverse backgrounds and hold diverse beliefs, I do not come here to scold or scoff at others for their beliefs. You have acted respectfully and courteously, I owe you the same.

[TheJackelantern]

I think we see God through His creation, we feel Him through the effects of His working in our lives and we hear Him through His Spirit when we read His word.

What creation was that? .. Last time I checked, I feel existence and what existence is like. And how do you hear GOD by reading a book? And his spirit is a book? .. Seriously, what you are going on is that you physically feel emotion and assume x physical feeling is a GOD..

1. Invisible yes, imaginary no. My reason for believing this likely stems from 3 things 1) My upbringing 2) The effects, which I attribute to God in my life and others (what most Christians call a "relationship") and 3) Something else that I can't describe but what I will simply call "knowing something in your heart" (which someone else might call delusional)

Pantheists, atheists, and other various theists can make the same argument. The above argument however is not in your favor for your GOD being any more relevant than a figment of your imagination, culture, religious belief, or because your family and mother share it.. Naturally people will often confide in what they are brought up to believe..

And a relationship is a two way street. What you are having is an imaginary relationship with the idea of a GOD you believe exists. Basically you are having a relationship with your love for a character in a book. Yet, the deity doesn't come over to your house for a cup of tea, or join you to watch that new awesome movie that just came out.. hence, you aren't actually having a real relationship beyond how you feel, or what's going on in your imaginings..

And who seriously believes a deity that supposedly created life to which must compete and murder itself to survive and reproduce would be something I would ever want a relationship with? Especially a genocidal jealous one at that?.. Worshiping such a thing would be like me going to a prison and worshiping a serial killer as a GOD, and one that first began by abusing animals.. :/ But ok, righteousness is a great rationalizer.. But hey, the next time you see a seal being ripped apart by an ORCA, you can jump in and feel GOD's creation.. :/

2. I don't know anything about having a childhood imaginary friend but if someone has an imaginary friend as an adult I suppose I would be more worried about them than a child and probably strongly suggest that they see a psychiatrist. My reasoning would be that I think its not highly unusual for some children to have an invisible friend and something they would grow out of with time.

Talking to yourself and believing it's GOD talking is pretty much equivalent to the imaginary friend game we find in children. After all, adults were once children. And in many religious families, belief indoctrination is seeded into them. It's called brainwashing since said children aren't allowed to be free to discover and make up their own minds.. It's also why Creationists want creationism in schools..

[AdHoc]

Yes that's exactly what I believe. I believe that "we see through a glass darkly and one day we will know just as we are known"

I don't really know what this means, how are we known? How does that relate to what we will know?

To me this means someday I will see God as clearly as He sees me

So God is his creation? Is this a pantheistic sort of view? Or God is not creation but anything we can learn about God can be seen in his creation?

William Blake's poem Tyger Tyger explores the thought I'm thinking here. Alot of people have a fairly one dimensional view of God Ie. He's either a punishing vengeful God or He's our best friend. If you believe in creation then neuther could be true because the same God who created the lamb created the great white shark.

He works in our lives? So he causes things to happen outside of creation? Does this mean creation is not going as planned?

When I make choices in my life sometimes I've found myself subject to discipline or other times I've gotten help when I needed it. Re: not as planned... for some reason I don't feel like I could give a wise answer to that. Lets say some of the players have messed up but God is able to work everything towards a perfect solution

He has a word? Can we read his word without hearing his spirit? What is spirit? What is his spirit?

His word, I believe, is the bible. Yes it can be read without hearing His Spirit. Spirit is that part of us that longs for ultimate good, its our life breath. The part that feels wounded when we see or do evil. Maybe what Freud would call the super-ego. What most people call your heart.

Why would I hammer you on that? Why does my not hammering you on that mean I felt sorry for you? People (on this site especially) come from diverse backgrounds and hold diverse beliefs, I do not come here to scold or scoff at others for their beliefs. You have acted respectfully and courteously, I owe you the same.

I respect that. I came here to win a million dollars but I'm hanging around to learn some debating skill and hopefully learn in general.

[TheJackelantern]

To me this means someday I will see God as clearly as He sees me

So he's a blurry image? Clarify clarity level of this vision of a GOD you have please. Basically all I see here is a faith / belief of what you want to believe in.. I often wondered why theists in general lack the need to know fact of reality vs fantasy regardless of how much reality contradicts the fantasy. But in all cases it seems to stem around the instilled fear of death, and the inability to deal with the harsh reality of it. Even if it means believing in a volcano GOD, solipsism, Atheistic Solipsism, or any other means to avoid having to deal with reality. Fear is the ultimate brainwashing and control tool, along with wild imaginary promises of bliss. And religion does that rather well.

[AdHoc]

To me this means someday I will see God as clearly as He sees me

So he's a blurry image? Clarify clarity level of this vision of a GOD you have please. Basically all I see here is a faith / belief of what you want to believe in.. I often wondered why theists in general lack the need to know fact of reality vs fantasy regardless of how much reality contradicts the fantasy. But in all cases it seems to stem around the instilled fear of death, and the inability to deal with the harsh reality of it. Even if it means believing in a volcano GOD, solipsism, Atheistic Solipsism, or any other means to avoid having to deal with reality. Fear is the ultimate brainwashing and control tool, along with wild imaginary promises of bliss. And religion does that rather well.

I have not seen God at any time nor have I heard any audible voices. My only "vision" of Him is by the things I mentioned before. However, I think you make a good point here even if it paints me as being weak and fearful and hopeful for heaven in the future. If I'm honest with you all that is true. I am also probably hopelessly brainwashed but I have no idea what solipsism is.

[Filthy Tugboat]

Yes that's exactly what I believe. I believe that "we see through a glass darkly and one day we will know just as we are known"

I don't really know what this means, how are we known? How does that relate to what we will know?

To me this means someday I will see God as clearly as He sees me

Does God see you?

So God is his creation? Is this a pantheistic sort of view? Or God is not creation but anything we can learn about God can be seen in his creation?

William Blake's poem Tyger Tyger explores the thought I'm thinking here. Alot of people have a fairly one dimensional view of God Ie. He's either a punishing vengeful God or He's our best friend. If you believe in creation then neuther could be true because the same God who created the lamb created the great white shark.

Some reconcile these notions with the idea that hardship must exist for humans to have a firm grasp of reality and to learn and mature and that God's choice to create life with many hardships is a form of love.

He works in our lives? So he causes things to happen outside of creation? Does this mean creation is not going as planned?

When I make choices in my life sometimes I've found myself subject to discipline or other times I've gotten help when I needed it. Re: not as planned... for some reason I don't feel like I could give a wise answer to that. Lets say some of the players have messed up but God is able to work everything towards a perfect solution

If God has a plan (if he is omniscient the act of creation enacts a full plan that would be known from beginning to end and if God is capable of doing anything and everything, then any plan from creation would be complete and need no more altering to be enacted) why would he need to put any more effort into that plan. From creation that plan would be set in stone, why has he chosen a plan that requires his effort to produce his ideal conclusion? Why is his ideal conclusion not a part of the original plan?

He has a word? Can we read his word without hearing his spirit? What is spirit? What is his spirit?

His word, I believe, is the bible. Yes it can be read without hearing His Spirit. Spirit is that part of us that longs for ultimate good, its our life breath. The part that feels wounded when we see or do evil. Maybe what Freud would call the super-ego. What most people call your heart.

So spirit is a metaphor and not an actual thing? That makes a lot more sense. Is God's spirit a metaphor too? What does it mean to read the Bible with God's spirit? If the Bible is God's word, is it not perfectly written? Would the conclusions reached by anyone and everyone that ever read it not be the intended conclusions of the author, assuming his omniscience and omnipotence? Could someone interpret "God's Word" wrong? How? If it's God's word you'd think he would have made it fool proof and unambiguous.

Why would I hammer you on that? Why does my not hammering you on that mean I felt sorry for you? People (on this site especially) come from diverse backgrounds and hold diverse beliefs, I do not come here to scold or scoff at others for their beliefs. You have acted respectfully and courteously, I owe you the same.

I respect that. I came here to win a million dollars but I'm hanging around to learn some debating skill and hopefully learn in general.

I find that's why most are here, certainly why I am, there is a lot of information posted on this site daily, a lot of well thought out arguments, well referenced articles, a lot of well informed opinions. There is a bit of drivel but if you can see past that, it's a great place to learn about others, the world and even yourself.

[AdHoc]

If God has a plan (if he is omniscient the act of creation enacts a full plan that would be known from beginning to end and if God is capable of doing anything and everything, then any plan from creation would be complete and need no more altering to be enacted) why would he need to put any more effort into that plan. From creation that plan would be set in stone, why has he chosen a plan that requires his effort to produce his ideal conclusion? Why is his ideal conclusion not a part of the original plan?

The "plan" would be laid out and carried out before God in perfection. We believe Space and Time to be one continuum. God is not limited by either. Where I would experience sequence, God would see all. Beginning, end, every connection, every critical path all at once. We only see our parts.

So spirit is a metaphor and not an actual thing? That makes a lot more sense. Is God's spirit a metaphor too? What does it mean to read the Bible with God's spirit? If the Bible is God's word, is it not perfectly written? Would the conclusions reached by anyone and everyone that ever read it not be the intended conclusions of the author, assuming his omniscience and omnipotence? Could someone interpret "God's Word" wrong? How? If it's God's word you'd think he would have made it fool proof and unambiguous.

Spirit is real. If

[AdHoc]

If God has a plan (if he is omniscient the act of creation enacts a full plan that would be known from beginning to end and if God is capable of doing anything and everything, then any plan from creation would be complete and need no more altering to be enacted) why would he need to put any more effort into that plan. From creation that plan would be set in stone, why has he chosen a plan that requires his effort to produce his ideal conclusion? Why is his ideal conclusion not a part of the original plan?

I don't mind telling you I'm out of my depth on this paradox... I'd rather admit it than demonstrate it.

So spirit is a metaphor and not an actual thing? That makes a lot more sense. Is God's spirit a metaphor too? What does it mean to read the Bible with God's spirit? If the Bible is God's word, is it not perfectly written? Would the conclusions reached by anyone and everyone that ever read it not be the intended conclusions of the author, assuming his omniscience and omnipotence? Could someone interpret "God's Word" wrong? How? If it's God's word you'd think he would have made it fool proof and unambiguous.

I have a thought about this that will relate at least the way I think about spirit. I believe that spirit is real (but please don't ask me to define the word real) but real in the same sense as you and I are real.

When you use a pen and write on a piece of paper the only part that is observed is the ball point that rolls on the 2 dimensional surface and leaves a mark. The rest of the pen exists in a 3 dimensional world. If I was from the 2 dimensional world of paper I might not be able to see or touch the rest of the pen but its real.

The rest of your questions expose a further paradox. He gave His word to everyone but made it so no one could understand it without His Spirit. Why? I'm not entirely sure.

But if I had to guess, I don't think people would become mathematicians if every truth was laid out for all to see. But we can have a relationship with God and discover things with His understanding.

[Crazee]

Imaginary friend

Imaginary friends and imaginary companions are a psychological and social phenomenon where a friendship or other interpersonal relationship takes place in the imagination rather than external physical reality. Imaginary friends are fictional characters created for improvisational role-playing. They often have elaborate personalities and behaviors. They may seem real to their creators, though they are ultimately unreal, as shown by studies.

Well, I see no reason to call something unreal just because only certain people can detect them.

Take for example, a dog whistle. Dogs can hear higher pitches along the scale than we can. When a dog whistle is blown, we don’t hear anything, but the dog does. Would we say in this situation that the sound is unreal beause the dog hears it and we don’t?

We have instruments that can detect this sound, so even though we can't hear it, we know it exists. Maybe it is possible that in the future we will discover technology that can detect these supposedly imaginary personalities.

They are, according to some children, physically indistinguishable from real people, while others say they see their imaginary friends only in their heads.

That’s pretty cool. I believe that children are more receptive to these things because they haven’t yet been influenced by society to not believe in it. They are just flowing with what feels right, and not thinking about how some might call them ‘crazy’.

There's even a third category of imaginary friend recognition: when the child doesn't see the imaginary friend at all, but can only feel his/her presence.

That does sound a lot like the way people describe their experiences with god. I think that there are beings that exist in other dimensions and can interact with people that don’t deny the possibility. They have helped guide us. Ultimately, my pantheist tendencies will say they are god, of sorts, a part of the all that helps us to discover who we really are. I think the problems arise when we try to describe this energy, this Essence of reality, in a human sort of way; when it is really so far beyond description by our languages.

G'day.

1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

As you have described them, probably. But, imo, ‘imaginary’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘unreal’.

2. What difference is there between children with imaginary friends and adults that believe in 'God'/'Jesus' ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

The difference is that children are less likely to obsessively defend their imaginary friends than adults are of their view of god and/or jesus. The honesty of a child is incredible, they aren’t worried about you telling them what they are experiencing isn’t real, to them it is as real as anything else. For this reason, I think we should lend more credence to the playful musings of children. Much of that innocent creativity and imagination is hammered out of us in our industrialized school system.

3. Should those that have invisible/imaginary friends be stopped from being in charge of countries and making decisions for the nation, including international relationships ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

That’s difficult question to answer. I have to say maybe. It should be taken on a case by case basis. If someone’s imaginary friend is telling them to bomb developing countries, then hopefully we as American voters can choose not to put them in power. But I don’t think the ‘imaginary friend’ factor in of itself is disqualifying.

4. "Some child development professionals still believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." Does a belief in invisible/imaginary friends as an adult show "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

We are afraid of what we don’t understand.

We dislike others because we don’t think we can understand how they can believe what they do. We tell other people they should change because we don’t understand how someone can live wholesomely with different beliefs from us.

If our beliefs are the best, they will naturally be figured out by others in time. The most effective change in an individual comes through personal self-reflection. The way we can help people reflect positively is to tell them what you think, as non-judgmentally as possible.

If we tell people they have a “serious psychiatric problem�, that’s pretty judgmental. If it comes from a legitimate authority figure, such as a doctor, then maybe the person will listen without being defensive. I don’t think it will ever do any good to tell someone that believes in personal interactions with god that they have a psychiatric problem. As you correctly point out in your last question that I haven’t quoted, the believer in god probably believes in the non-believer being the one with a psychiatric disorder, so who is really the crazy one here?

[Oldfarmhouse]

The imaginary friend that are created in the minds of young children serve a purpose. A child playing alone wants someone to alk to. Someone to describe their method of play to. So they create these characters in their minds. They develop the characters to the extent that they are helpful, they offer wisdom, they do something "bad" such that the child expresses anger toward the fictional pal.

Almost invariably the imaginary friend vanish at a certain point in the child's life. There is no death, funeral, no voyage to a distant land, no tearful good-bye, the friend just vanish when the child forgets all about them. The point at which this happens is usually when the child enters kindergarten. Why? Because that is the point at which the child starts having REAL friends.

Now let's zoom to adulthood. Why would people who have real friends and the capability to have real relationships with real people continue to have imaginary friends such as Jesus, Krishna, Ramtha, God, etc.? Because of socialization. They live in a subculture in which the imaginary friends are reinforced. They are rewarded for continuing to believe in them.

Now let's jump back to childhood. Little Johnny has an invisible bud he calls Pete. His parents do not tell him that Pete is imaginary. They encourage him to continue his "relationship" with Pete. He goes to kindergarten. The other kids all have invisible friends called Pete too. On and on -- Johnny is, through social reinforcement, unlikely to abandon his delusion that Pete is real any time soon. That is how religion works. Social reinforcement.