Why is England Burning
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Why is England Burning
Post #1Why is my beloved country tearing itself to pieces? Why is a man kicked to death for putting out a fire? Have we lost God? Did we ever have much God in the first place? Is Anglicanism just an excuse for us of Albion to not take God seriously?
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Nilloc James
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Post #2
Are you suggesting that the problems are divine retribution or another assertion that (G)od is responsible for all morallity?
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JoeyKnothead
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Post #3
From the OP:
All seriousness - I hate to see such a wonderful land and people in such turmoil, and blame it on a far more complex set of issues than just religion.
(edit cause of don't come with an i - and no, that's not a euphemism)
Cause there's humans in it.Why is my beloved country tearing itself to pieces?
Any chance that kicker was attached to a human?Why is a man kicked to death for putting out a fire?
Kinda hard to lose what can't be found.Have we lost God?
Well I've had my fill of him, if that's what you're askin'.Did we ever have much God in the first place?
With a name like Albion, you got bigger problems'n GodIs Anglicanism just an excuse for us of Albion to not take God seriously?
All seriousness - I hate to see such a wonderful land and people in such turmoil, and blame it on a far more complex set of issues than just religion.
(edit cause of don't come with an i - and no, that's not a euphemism)
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Furrowed Brow
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Post #4
The reality is that relatively few numbers of people were able to cause a notable amount of damage. There was never more than about 100 criminally minded folk accumulated in the worst affected areas. There were many copycat events involving only handfuls of people. England is not suffering social meltdown. We certainly have a thin and stress thin social strata with incoherent standards they can barely articulate but which allows them to feel uninhibited by the law or social norms and if allowed revel in the morality of Grand Theft Auto. there was also some out and out criminals looking to exploit the chance for some stolen gear.
What happened was that a power vacuum appeared on our streets when it became plain the police were unwilling to take on the trouble makers. Remember the first riot on the first night was sparked by the police shooting Mark Duggan, and there was plenty of media coverage of the ineffectiveness of the police to deal with the rioters that night. What followed over the next three nights had very little to do with the shooting and much more to do with police tatics. Very early on we reached a tipping point when the crowd felt more powerful than the social forces that would otherwise constrain them. In this instant people looted and rioted because they felt they would get away with it. But the crowds were not that big. The very next morning I visited both Hackney and Clapham two areas worst affected and I saw no sign of any troubles or its aftermath because the damage was limited to a very small area of a few streets out of view from where I sat. But Technology and TV can focus in and enlarge and the media informed other like minded folk almost instantly, whilst rolling TV coverage of about three building in flames, and mostly one carpet shop, continued to fuel the hysteria.
The real question is why does a layers of society (mostly young) remain only partially connected to the rest. The answer is complex and will involve readily available well paid jobs (not minimum wage). That our leaders demonstrate the highest standards and are not seen to be living in ivory towers whilst lining their own pockets. It is not irrelevant that recent social reports show that the gap between rich and poor in the UK is heading back towards Victorian levels. Today if you are poor or lower middle class you are more likley to remain so, and your children and grandchildren remain so than in any time for many decades. There needs to be realistic opportunities for social mobility and that if you are working you can actually afford a decent home or even afford the home you are presently living in that without welfare and benefit top ups would be beyond the average wage. (I earn well above national average and the London average yet my wage would need to double for me to be able to afford to buy the small two bedroom house I currently rent. This is typical. For average folk to feel they have even a chance of owning their own home they property in the London and South of England needs to be about a third its present level. To give the kinds of people who rioted a sense they can aspire to be a property owner they need a realisitic route for them to do so if they manage to secure even an average job). Add to this meaningful sanctions for criminal behaviour and the sense that those sanctions are an inevitable consequence of criminal behaviour. A rethink of the consumer society and the message of instant gratification that permeates much of our media and advertising. Education also play a part, not just ensuring everyone gets a decent education, but raising the value of a good education for those who might otherwise have a mind to loot and riot and act criminally: even just raising the value of being able to get out of bed in the morning, putting some kind of structure into your day, and speaking clearly and politely. Capitalism requires us all to be consumers and the infantile consume more than the discerning. The logical end point of a consumer society is a populace who cannot resist the suggest to consume, desires everthing put before it, and is unable to articulate why it wants it or why it should not want it. Looting is just the most effective form of instant gratification consumerism, and violent gangs and mobs are the most efficient social groupings to realise instant gratification. They are the A grade consumer students who don't have to work hard to get their grade.
Aside: There is no data to tell us how may atheists were on the streets looting, but given several observers have called for the various faiths to be involved in the answer it seems the greater expectation is that the kind of folk who went looting were not atheistic.
What happened was that a power vacuum appeared on our streets when it became plain the police were unwilling to take on the trouble makers. Remember the first riot on the first night was sparked by the police shooting Mark Duggan, and there was plenty of media coverage of the ineffectiveness of the police to deal with the rioters that night. What followed over the next three nights had very little to do with the shooting and much more to do with police tatics. Very early on we reached a tipping point when the crowd felt more powerful than the social forces that would otherwise constrain them. In this instant people looted and rioted because they felt they would get away with it. But the crowds were not that big. The very next morning I visited both Hackney and Clapham two areas worst affected and I saw no sign of any troubles or its aftermath because the damage was limited to a very small area of a few streets out of view from where I sat. But Technology and TV can focus in and enlarge and the media informed other like minded folk almost instantly, whilst rolling TV coverage of about three building in flames, and mostly one carpet shop, continued to fuel the hysteria.
The real question is why does a layers of society (mostly young) remain only partially connected to the rest. The answer is complex and will involve readily available well paid jobs (not minimum wage). That our leaders demonstrate the highest standards and are not seen to be living in ivory towers whilst lining their own pockets. It is not irrelevant that recent social reports show that the gap between rich and poor in the UK is heading back towards Victorian levels. Today if you are poor or lower middle class you are more likley to remain so, and your children and grandchildren remain so than in any time for many decades. There needs to be realistic opportunities for social mobility and that if you are working you can actually afford a decent home or even afford the home you are presently living in that without welfare and benefit top ups would be beyond the average wage. (I earn well above national average and the London average yet my wage would need to double for me to be able to afford to buy the small two bedroom house I currently rent. This is typical. For average folk to feel they have even a chance of owning their own home they property in the London and South of England needs to be about a third its present level. To give the kinds of people who rioted a sense they can aspire to be a property owner they need a realisitic route for them to do so if they manage to secure even an average job). Add to this meaningful sanctions for criminal behaviour and the sense that those sanctions are an inevitable consequence of criminal behaviour. A rethink of the consumer society and the message of instant gratification that permeates much of our media and advertising. Education also play a part, not just ensuring everyone gets a decent education, but raising the value of a good education for those who might otherwise have a mind to loot and riot and act criminally: even just raising the value of being able to get out of bed in the morning, putting some kind of structure into your day, and speaking clearly and politely. Capitalism requires us all to be consumers and the infantile consume more than the discerning. The logical end point of a consumer society is a populace who cannot resist the suggest to consume, desires everthing put before it, and is unable to articulate why it wants it or why it should not want it. Looting is just the most effective form of instant gratification consumerism, and violent gangs and mobs are the most efficient social groupings to realise instant gratification. They are the A grade consumer students who don't have to work hard to get their grade.
Aside: There is no data to tell us how may atheists were on the streets looting, but given several observers have called for the various faiths to be involved in the answer it seems the greater expectation is that the kind of folk who went looting were not atheistic.
Re: Why is England Burning
Post #5Well England has been a mostly athiest nation for some generations now. And even when most of it's people where theists they where either anglicans or catholics, both of those churches are harlots to the powers that be. catholisism was born out of harlotry to Constantine and anglicanisim was born out of harlotry to king Henry the 8thKronos wrote:Why is my beloved country tearing itself to pieces? Why is a man kicked to death for putting out a fire? Have we lost God? Did we ever have much God in the first place? Is Anglicanism just an excuse for us of Albion to not take God seriously?
True bible-believing Christians have always been a small minority in the UK.
The current violence i believe is part of the British elites plans to impose restrictions on freedom. They are preparing the way for a police state. The way you do that is cause a crisis to make people demand your solution.
Take a look at the pre-riot entertainment in England. Talk about pre-priming the youth to riot.
Courtesy of the British music awards 2011.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoXuOUKpCtU
Hey kids violence is sexy.. get out there, smash and burn..
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
