Conspiracy theories/theorists (and Ron Paul supporters)

[Honibaz]

Is there an area of this forum that contains debates and/or discussions about conspiracy theories. You know what I'm referring to: Obama & Palin are secretly working together OR Bush was part of 9/11...those sorts. I was thinking it would be more of a political thread according to other websites I've been on.

I didn't know where to post this. Hope it's in the appropriate subject area. Thank you in advance if you can point me in the right direction. The reason I include Ron Paul supporters is because when I talk to them, they're the most sympathetic to the idea that secret societies are controlling us and only Dr. Paul will save us. Not all of them are nutjobs.

[LiamOS]

Unless I'm mistaken, they can go on the forum provided they have a religious base.

[otseng]

Debating subforums are only for topics that have some relevance to religion. But, if you wish to bring up non-religious topics, you can use the discussion subforums like General Chat or Random Ramblings.

[Choir Loft]

Is there an area of this forum that contains debates and/or discussions about conspiracy theories. You know what I'm referring to: Obama & Palin are secretly working together OR Bush was part of 9/11...those sorts. I was thinking it would be more of a political thread according to other websites I've been on.

I didn't know where to post this. Hope it's in the appropriate subject area. Thank you in advance if you can point me in the right direction. The reason I include Ron Paul supporters is because when I talk to them, they're the most sympathetic to the idea that secret societies are controlling us and only Dr. Paul will save us. Not all of them are nutjobs.

Has it occurred to no one that the American government is the greatest source of conspiracies of all and that the church agrees with it?

Conspiracy theories, or at least those which are ridiculed by the media by the Feds and by the popular press are denied moral support by the American religious community.

A conspiracy by definition is "a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act by two or more people"

The definition now accepted by most Americans has been diseminated by the Feds and the popular press. It is not the same. That definition goes something like this: "any explanation for a harmful or illegal act which does not comply with government guidelines cannot be seriously considered and is therefore subject to to ridicule."

The new definition has been accepted by the media and the church in America.
Traditionally a democracy survives by truthful disemination of information. The people study this info and make appropriate decisions. That was the case in 1776, but it is not so today. In the twenty first century the media is a participant in Federal conspiracies and the church has been frightened into silence by IRS statute 501c3. As a result, the majority of Americans accept whatever they are told by our corrupt leadership.

Take, for example, the "official" explanation of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963. How many people understand that there were TWO official government investigations, both of which contradict each other. One stated that Kenneday was killed by a single person while the other stated that there was a conspiracy. That's OFFICIAL investigations, folks. Which one, though, is published by the Feds and the media? The single man theory, of course.

We could go on with this too, because there were TWO men named Oswald. One was named Lee Oswald and the other was Harvey Oswald. Some years ago, investigators sought to disinter the grave of the Oswald that was killed in Dallas because NO ONE KNOWS who lies in that coffin. Will the Feds or the press let anyone know about that one? Does the church care? Nope.

We can go on forever if we also consider the murder of Rev. Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and Bobby Kennedy as government sponsored hits. Most of white America, the government intimidated press and white churches accept the party line - that these men were killed by lone assassins. Even the King family doesn't accept the line and with good reason.

Most recently the terror of 9/11 was supposed to have been engineered by foreign persons, yet the greatest evidence of Federal involvement is the massive and I do mean massive degree to which evidence was covered up BY THE FEDS. Serious questions have been raised, questions that cannot be adequately answered BY EVIDENCE. Why? Because that evidence has either removed or because conclusions which have been made are ridiculed. These cover ups stink of Federal participation in a murderous conspiracy. Does the church care? How do you spell N-O?

The press and the Feds deny any and all evidence to the contrary, that in each case the traditional definition of conspiracy does not apply and that in each case the Federal government was deeply involved in execution as well as in coverup. Churches remain criminally silent.

And the church, which ought to be the standard bearer of truth, has bought into these lies, supports them and acts as a non-allied agent of the government in supporting whatever policy comes out of Washington DC be it lies, murder, false representation et al.

Why do so many disrespect the church today? Could it be that the church is a co-conspirator in Federal plots by means of neglect of the pursuit of truth? Where can a concerned citizenry go to find the truth? Certainly not within the walls of the First Church of America.

[Choir Loft]

Is there an area of this forum that contains debates and/or discussions about conspiracy theories. You know what I'm referring to: Obama & Palin are secretly working together OR Bush was part of 9/11...those sorts. I was thinking it would be more of a political thread according to other websites I've been on.

I didn't know where to post this. Hope it's in the appropriate subject area. Thank you in advance if you can point me in the right direction. The reason I include Ron Paul supporters is because when I talk to them, they're the most sympathetic to the idea that secret societies are controlling us and only Dr. Paul will save us. Not all of them are nutjobs.

If you're interested in a really good overview of American conspiracy theories I recommend the Jesse Ventura books. His first one is a review of everything since the Lincoln assassination. He doesn't go into extreme detail on any particular issue and doesn't refer to grand design theories. That's the political end of it.

On the spiritual side I recommend C.S. Lewis' SCREWTAPE LETTERS. This is a short book and folks from both sides of the religion issue will find it entertaining and a downright good read. The book is about spiritual warfare and the conspiracy by spiritual entities to rule the world of man. It's based on scripture and Christian tradition and the treatment is novel, pun intended.

On the religious side I recommend your local newspaper. I read the editorials because they're funny and the comic section because its mostly based on truth. How's that for a conspiracy?

If you want a mixture of politics, religion and humor - watch a political debate on TV.

[SirThinkAlot]

I'm actually a little offended that you included Ron Paul supporters in this. Granted there is a significant portion of Paul supporters/libertarians who buy into this kind of stuff, but the majority of his support comes from people who just feel he most fairly reflects their views.

[Choir Loft]

I'm actually a little offended that you included Ron Paul supporters in this. Granted there is a significant portion of Paul supporters/libertarians who buy into this kind of stuff, but the majority of his support comes from people who just feel he most fairly reflects their views.

No offense intended. I am a card carrying Libertarian as well as one who believes that Mr. Paul has the right agenda for America. Fortunately or unfortunately as the case may be, that agenda will never see the light of day.

On the negative side, there is insufficient national support by Americans for policy which may benefit America.
On the positive side, should Ron Paul garner any substantial support I honestly believe that he would meet with some 'accident'. It's happened several times before and you know it.

Bottom line is that it doesn't really matter who is elected.
THOSE WHO RULE are capable of steering the figurehead in the Oval Office in any direction they please.

[Darias]

I support Ron Paul


but...


I'm not a truther because I find the argument factless in the least and illogical at best.

However, I do believe that our foreign policy of the past half century helped to generate consequences that could have been avoided. Osama attacked our country for actual reasons, not because we are "free" or "prosperous." Just because he had reasons does not make his crimes justified, but it is important to acknowledge this reality.

It is not the fault of Americans; and I don't actually blame our government. Our citizens did not deserve this. However, our foreign policy around the world has been haphazard, making us unsafe and targets of hate. Wars and occupation does not change hearts and minds in our direction, it pits them against us. This should be no mystery. This is a "no brainer." Yet amazingly our government's response has been more war and the erosion of American freedom in the name of that war to "protect our freedom." The foreign policy of interventionism, war, bombing, and occupation has only further endangered our nation, breeding terrorists left and right; it has only served to "justify" Al-Qaeda's worldview, that America is at war with Islam; it has only served to breed more terrorists, far beyond what Osama could have ever dreamed.

And this reality should not be seen as traitorous, as it once was in the years following 9/11. This should never be confused with trutherism, as it still is by neocons who believe our nation has done no wrong and that history begins in 2001.

[Choir Loft]

I support Ron Paul


but...


I'm not a truther because I find the argument factless in the least and illogical at best.

However, I do believe that our foreign policy of the past half century helped to generate consequences that could have been avoided. Osama attacked our country for actual reasons, not because we are "free" or "prosperous." Just because he had reasons does not make his crimes justified, but it is important to acknowledge this reality.

It is not the fault of Americans; and I don't actually blame our government. Our citizens did not deserve this. However, our foreign policy around the world has been haphazard, making us unsafe and targets of hate. Wars and occupation does not change hearts and minds in our direction, it pits them against us. This should be no mystery. This is a "no brainer." Yet amazingly our government's response has been more war and the erosion of American freedom in the name of that war to "protect our freedom." The foreign policy of interventionism, war, bombing, and occupation has only further endangered our nation, breeding terrorists left and right; it has only served to "justify" Al-Qaeda's worldview, that America is at war with Islam; it has only served to breed more terrorists, far beyond what Osama could have ever dreamed.

And this reality should not be seen as traitorous, as it once was in the years following 9/11. This should never be confused with trutherism, as it still is by neocons who believe our nation has done no wrong and that history begins in 2001.

Much of what you say reveals considerable thought and study, qualities that are absent from the general American population these days.

I agree with the bulk of your assertions.

American hegemony is a critical factor in the reaction we receive from our allies, our friends and even our enemies.

"If you are not with us you are against us," said George W. Bush.

From his lofty position high above us all, Bush never believed that there might be other considerations to the world's problems and other solutions than those which are of benefit to the American military-industrial complex.

American cowboy diplomacy is the result and mindless flag waving allegiance to a banner no longer our own is the popular consensus and our collective curse.

The American people have no idea what is happening to them.
- Pravda

If guilt be placed upon any single institution in our land, it belongs upon the church. For the church alone, of all the gifts God has given to man, is that sole repository of light and inspiration by which western civilization raised itself up from the ashes of antiquity and reached for the stars. The flame of truth, borne for centuries by men of faith and conscience, has grown dim, quenched by the love of money and passion.

If the world in general and America in particular now faces crisis after crisis without any answers except violence and corruption, it is the fault of the church for having neglected its great commission; to present Jesus Christ to the kingdoms and hearts of man.