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Paradigm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:03 pm  Premarital Sex Reply with quote

According to Matt 7:12 It's not only ok, it is required by law that you do to your girlfriend whatever naughty things you would have her do to you.

The Greek word "pornea" has been translated in the New Testement quite accurately as "sexual immorality.". Since it is inarguably moral to obey Jesus, and He commanded that you do to your girlfriend whatever naughty things you would have her do to you, injunctions against sexual immorality obviously do not amount to an injunction against premarital sex.

If your argument is that "sexual immorality" means "any sex outside of marriage" please cite the passage that defines it as such.

Question for debate: Does the Bible prohibit premarital sex?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 51: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:55 am
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InTheFlesh wrote:
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I'm not aware that you're supposed to be married to any God as one marries a wife or husband. Marriage in the Bible is between a man and a woman and not a man/woman and a spirit.


Rev.19
1.[7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
2.[9] And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

[28] So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
[30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
[31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
[32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
[33] Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.


Hi IntheFlesh. I think I can break down your response into 2 points. The first one is regarding Christ's marriage to the Church and the other is about the phrase "one flesh". I'm also assuming that you don't believe that polygamy is moral by biblical standards.

Regarding the first point, I've read before of Christ referring to his union to the Church as being like that of a marriage. I don't see that that is the same as a literal marriage like I mentioned in my previous comment. In some aspects it is, but in other cases it falls short of that. If it Christ and the Church was real marriage then all married Christians would be polygamists because they would be married to their spouse and also Christ. It's also not a real marriage because Christians are not having sex with God ever and sex is one function of marriage. We also find in the OT, God describing himself being married to a DIVIDED (in 2 kingdoms) Israel.

God speaking to the prophet, Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 23: 1, 4, 36, 37
Quote:
(vs. 1) The word of the LORD came to me...(vs. 4)The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem.
(vs. 36) The LORD said to me: "Son of man, will you judge Oholah and Oholibah? Then confront them with their detestable practices, 37 for they have committed adultery and blood is on their hands. They committed adultery with their idols; they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me

Saying that TWO sisters (symbolized as Jerusalem and Samaria) "are mine" signifies a polygamous marriage in this context. Saying that they also bore you children and committed adultery are all representative of marital related functions.

Here's another example..
Jeremiah 3:8 of God referring to himself as being married to two who are sisters:
Quote:
I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.


On the 2nd point about being one flesh, that's possible with more than 2 people. Jesus is one with the Father and one with the Church. The Church and the Father are 2 separate entities. Also, 1 Corinthians 6:15-16 shows that becoming one flesh does not relate to a marriage only, it can be a phrase that applies to a non-marital interaction(s) (like with a prostitute) but of course also relate to marriage, as well. And again, Jesus and God the Father aren't married either and they are one.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 52: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:46 am
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Your interpretation of Matthew 7:12 turns the golden rule on its head. It is intended to do no harm not to provide license.

The word, “fornication” can be ambiguous, but there are simple solutions for ambiguities in the Bible. All we have to do is find other passages that either support or refute the concept of premarital sex. Paul is making it very clear in 1 Corinthians 7 that sexual relations outside of marriage is not permitted.
I Corinthians 7:8-9 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Jesus stated that God’s institution of marriage was intended for one man and one woman. So the OT references to concubines and multiple wives was never condoned by God.
An additional test is to compare an activity to a higher principle. If the purpose of your question regarding fornication is to provide you the liberty of sleeping around with women, then I would say that you are clearly missing applying your freedom or liberty in Christ. We can go back to 1 Corinthians 7 and see that there are specific instruction for married couples concerning sexuality, but Paul does not provide those same instructions to the unmarried. We can take intuitively surmise that Paul didn’t provide information because it was understood that sex was reserved for marriage. Obviously there was a question similar to yours asked over 2000 years ago.
1 Corinthians 7:1-7 Now regarding the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to abstain from sexual relations. But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.
The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs. The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.
Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. Yet each person has a special gift from God, of one kind or another.
Then there is the golden rule which basically says that we should not harm others but treat them as we wish to be treated. Premarital sex is fraught with danger for both parties in terms of STD’s, but even more so to the woman because of the potential of pregnancy. No matter what form of birth control is used, there is absolutely no full-proof method unless done by surgery which is a pretty permanent solution for a child bearing aged woman to take. Premarital sex is an activity that is subject to an urge which rarely considers the potential consequences. When two people love each other they look to the best for each other. Sleeping around hardly constitutes a love relationship, hence we are abusing each other. Hardly a Scriptural premise for premarital sex.
So then what about a couple who love each other and are planning to marry? Again, the issue of doing each other no harm applies. I have had the unfortunate experience of knowing a couple who were planning to marry, engaged in premarital sex, got pregnant and the fiancé was killed in an automobile accident before the wedding. Sure, this could have happened immediately after the wedding, but a considerate husband would have purchased life insurance and made certain that his wife and unborn child would be financially secure in the event of his death. If you are planning to marry, are engage in premarital sex, and have secured your fiancés financial future, then I guess we are talking about a very gray area. Of course, you could resort to oral sex, but women generally have a difficult time achieving an orgasm from oral sex. So the man would be the beneficiary absent his fiancé. Doesn’t seem very loving to me. I would wait and make the first time special, but that’s me. As to all other forms of premarital sex, for obvious reasons and others not so obvious, it is not condoned in the Bible nor by common sense.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 53: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:06 pm
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Re: Premarital Sex

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JehovahsWitness wrote:

Paradigm wrote:


Question for debate: Does the Bible prohibit premarital sex?



Fornication** basically means 'unlawful" sex, or sex that god does not approve of. From the Greek work "pornia"

The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary, 1988, p. 441, “fornication”:, “πορνεία”:


While this would include sex before marriage, but it also includes adultery, homosexuality, and bestiality. It is the willing stimulation of the genitals with lewd intent, involving two parties, and so the term also includes so-called "mutual masturbation". Some scholars believe that the term "pornea" included oral sex and anal sex even within marriage, but biblically "fornication" is never linked with any sex between spouses

WHAT LAW?

Christians were told by the Jerusalem council in the first century that this specific prohibitions from the MOSAIC LAW CODE applied to new converts. (see Acts 15:20). This law covered all kinds of sexual sin including consentual sex between adults that were NOT married.


Scriptural references:

Matt. 5:32; 19:9; John 8:41; Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25; Rom. 1:29; 1 Cor 5:1, 6:13, 18, 7:2; 10:8; 2 Cor 12:21; Gal 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1 Thess. 4:3; Jude 1:7; Rev. 2:14, 20-21; 9:21; 14:8; 17:2,4).


Why do religious people need to make up definitions to match what they were brain washed into thinking?

Fornication: Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who are not married to each other.

The legal definition has nothing to do with illegal. Nor does the legal definition have anything to do with sex between men or woman.

Likewise, you have no idea what the original bible said. Unless you have a copy from 325AD. Do you? If not then you have no idea what the original bible said.


Just because JWs are hate mongers against gays and lesbians don't try to make things up to justify your bigotry.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 54: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:06 am
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Donray wrote:




Just because JWs are hate mongers against gays and lesbians don't try to make things up to justify your bigotry.


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