Q for RCs (De Maria if possible....) re: The RC & BIBLE

[JehovahsWitness]

Hello,

I am thinking of writing or compiling something on the history of the bible in English and would like to know how Catholics commonly view the role of the church in the opposition and execution of bible translators.

Do Catholics believe the Church had any connection at all to these executions and if so what was that connection?

Are the Church leaders that were involved viewed as individual mavericks and/or innocent victims pressured against their will to act on behalf of the State (contrary to the will of the Holy Pontif)?

In short how do Catholics view that chapter of Church/bible history?

(any links to official declaration - sorry I don't know the word for prouncement from the Pope - would be very helpful)

Respectfully,
JW

Thanks in advance.

[De Maria]

Hello,

I am thinking of writing or compiling something on the history of the bible in English and would like to know how Catholics commonly view the role of the church in the opposition and execution of bible translators.

Do Catholics believe the Church had any connection at all to these executions and if so what was that connection?

Are the Church leaders that were involved viewed as individual mavericks and/or innocent victims pressured against their will to act on behalf of the State (contrary to the will of the Holy Pontif)?

In short how do Catholics view that chapter of Church/bible history?

(any links to official declaration - sorry I don't know the word for prouncement from the Pope - would be very helpful)

Respectfully,
JW

Thanks in advance.

I'm not aware of the Catholic Church executing anyone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[ThatGirlAgain]

Hello,

I am thinking of writing or compiling something on the history of the bible in English and would like to know how Catholics commonly view the role of the church in the opposition and execution of bible translators.

Do Catholics believe the Church had any connection at all to these executions and if so what was that connection?

Are the Church leaders that were involved viewed as individual mavericks and/or innocent victims pressured against their will to act on behalf of the State (contrary to the will of the Holy Pontif)?

In short how do Catholics view that chapter of Church/bible history?

(any links to official declaration - sorry I don't know the word for prouncement from the Pope - would be very helpful)

Respectfully,
JW

Thanks in advance.

Are you referring to William Tyndale? He was not the first to translate the Bible into English. That was already happening as early as the 7th century. Ref

Tyndale was the first to make an English translation from the Hebrew and Greek instead of the approved Latin Vulgate. The wording of his resulting Bible actively opposed a number of official Church doctrines. In the end Tyndale was tried for heresy, convicted and executed. Ref

The Tyndale Bible was very influential in getting the Reformation rolling and was the basis for much of the King James Bible. Ref

So it was not for translating the Bible into English. It was for opposing Church doctrine.

[JehovahsWitness]

Hello,

I am thinking of writing or compiling something on the history of the bible in English and would like to know how Catholics commonly view the role of the church in the opposition and execution of bible translators.

Do Catholics believe the Church had any connection at all to these executions and if so what was that connection?

Are the Church leaders that were involved viewed as individual mavericks and/or innocent victims pressured against their will to act on behalf of the State (contrary to the will of the Holy Pontif)?

In short how do Catholics view that chapter of Church/bible history?

(any links to official declaration - sorry I don't know the word for prouncement from the Pope - would be very helpful)

Respectfully,
JW

Thanks in advance.

I'm not aware of the Catholic Church executing anyone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Thank you, maybe I put it wrong - There were people that were exectued for heresy/ and various religious crimes connected with the bible - can any connection be justifiably made between the deaths of such individual and the church and if so, what could that connection be?

Do you know of any documents or any official Catholic site that deals with this subject?

Thanks

[JehovahsWitness]

Hello,

I am thinking of writing or compiling something on the history of the bible in English and would like to know how Catholics commonly view the role of the church in the opposition and execution of bible translators.

Do Catholics believe the Church had any connection at all to these executions and if so what was that connection?

Are the Church leaders that were involved viewed as individual mavericks and/or innocent victims pressured against their will to act on behalf of the State (contrary to the will of the Holy Pontif)?

In short how do Catholics view that chapter of Church/bible history?

(any links to official declaration - sorry I don't know the word for prouncement from the Pope - would be very helpful)

Respectfully,
JW

Thanks in advance.

Are you referring to William Tyndale? He was not the first to translate the Bible into English. That was already happening as early as the 7th century. Ref

Tyndale was the first to make an English translation from the Hebrew and Greek instead of the approved Latin Vulgate. The wording of his resulting Bible actively opposed a number of official Church doctrines. In the end Tyndale was tried for heresy, convicted and executed. Ref

The Tyndale Bible was very influential in getting the Reformation rolling and was the basis for much of the King James Bible. Ref

So it was not for translating the Bible into English. It was for opposing Church doctrine.

Was Tyndale the only person executed for opposing Church doctrine?
Has the Catholic church ever made a comment on this individual and if so where do you think I could read it.

[ThatGirlAgain]

Hello,

I am thinking of writing or compiling something on the history of the bible in English and would like to know how Catholics commonly view the role of the church in the opposition and execution of bible translators.

Do Catholics believe the Church had any connection at all to these executions and if so what was that connection?

Are the Church leaders that were involved viewed as individual mavericks and/or innocent victims pressured against their will to act on behalf of the State (contrary to the will of the Holy Pontif)?

In short how do Catholics view that chapter of Church/bible history?

(any links to official declaration - sorry I don't know the word for prouncement from the Pope - would be very helpful)

Respectfully,
JW

Thanks in advance.

I'm not aware of the Catholic Church executing anyone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Thank you, maybe I put it wrong - There were people that were exectued for heresy/ and various religious crimes connected with the bible - can any connection be justifiably made between the deaths of such individual and the church and if so, what could that connection be?

Do you know of any documents or any official Catholic site that deals with this subject?

Thanks

Here is a summary of the Catholic viewpoint on Tyndale. Note that it emphasizes that Tyndale was tried and executed by civil authorities. Nonetheless the crime was heresy not any purely civil offense. Strictly speaking, the church never exected anyone. They were turned over to the civil authorities for that even when convicted in a church court.

[JehovahsWitness]

Hello,

I am thinking of writing or compiling something on the history of the bible in English and would like to know how Catholics commonly view the role of the church in the opposition and execution of bible translators.

Do Catholics believe the Church had any connection at all to these executions and if so what was that connection?

Are the Church leaders that were involved viewed as individual mavericks and/or innocent victims pressured against their will to act on behalf of the State (contrary to the will of the Holy Pontif)?

In short how do Catholics view that chapter of Church/bible history?

(any links to official declaration - sorry I don't know the word for prouncement from the Pope - would be very helpful)

Respectfully,
JW

Thanks in advance.

I'm not aware of the Catholic Church executing anyone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Thank you, maybe I put it wrong - There were people that were exectued for heresy/ and various religious crimes connected with the bible - can any connection be justifiably made between the deaths of such individual and the church and if so, what could that connection be?

Do you know of any documents or any official Catholic site that deals with this subject?

Thanks

Here is a summary of the Catholic viewpoint on Tyndale. Note that it emphasizes that Tyndale was tried and executed by civil authorities. Nonetheless the crime was heresy not any purely civil offense. Strictly speaking, the church never exected anyone. They were turned over to the civil authorities for that even when convicted in a church court.

Thank you TGA, that was very helpful.

Would it therefore be accurate to say the following:

"Any individuals executed on charges of "heresy" (connected with the bible) were victims of CIVIL (governmental/political) injustices* and that Catholic church representatives had nothiing (or little) to do with their fates. Any Church officials historically linked with such cases played an enforced role without the official sanction of the Holy See."

*Maybe another word would be more suitable because conceivably certain cases are viewed as justifiable

Comments welcome.

[ThatGirlAgain]

Would it therefore be accurate to say the following:

"Any individuals executed on charges of "heresy" (connected with the bible) were victims of CIVIL (governmental/political) injustices* and that Catholic church representatives had nothing (or little) to do with their fates. Any Church officials historically linked with such cases played an enforced role without the official sanction of the Holy See."

*Maybe another word would be more suitable because conceivably certain cases are viewed as justifiable

Comments welcome.

Where is the above quote from? My opinion on it? Hogwash. Without the influence of the Holy See, heresy would not have been a crime and the “civil injustices� would never have happened. The above quote reminds me of a certain famous guy washing his hands. In any case, ecclesiastical courts were in the thick of things when it came to heresy

For the real story, check out the Church legislation on heresy section of the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Heresy.

Written in 1909:

The burning of heretics was first decreed in the eleventh century. The Synod of Verona (1184) imposed on bishops the duty to search out the heretics in their dioceses and to hand them over to the secular power. Other synods, and the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) under Pope Innocent III, repeated and enforced this decree, especially the Synod of Toulouse (1229), which established inquisitors in every parish (one priest and two laymen). Everyone was bound to denounce heretics, the names of the witnesses were kept secret; after 1243, when Innocent IV sanctioned the laws of Emperor Frederick II and of Louis IX against heretics, torture was applied in trials; the guilty persons were delivered up to the civil authorities and actually burnt at the stake. Paul III (1542) established, and Sixtus V organized, the Roman Congregation of the Inquisition, or Holy Office, a regular court of justice for dealing with heresy and heretics (see ROMAN CONGREGATIONS). The Congregation of the Index, instituted by St. Pius V, has for its province the care of faith and morals in literature; it proceeds against printed matter very much as the Holy Office proceeds against persons (see INDEX OF PROHIBITED BOOKS). The present pope [1909], Pius X, has decreed the establishment in every diocese of a board of censors and of a vigilance committee whose functions are to find out and report on writings and persons tainted with the heresy of Modernism (Encyclical "Pascendi", 8 Sept., 1907). The present-day legislation against heresy has lost nothing of its ancient severity; but the penalties on heretics are now only of the spiritual order; all the punishments which require the intervention of the secular arm have fallen into abeyance. Even in countries where the cleavage between the spiritual and secular powers does not amount to hostility or complete severance, the death penalty, confiscation of goods, imprisonment, etc., are no longer inflicted on heretics. The spiritual penalties are of two kinds: latae and ferendae sententiae. The former are incurred by the mere fact of heresy, no judicial sentence being required; the latter are inflicted after trial by an ecclesiastical court, or by a bishop acting ex informata conscientia, that is, on his own certain knowledge, and dispensing with the usual procedure

[Slopeshoulder]

I'm not aware of the Catholic Church executing anyone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Is this:
1) a joke?
2) obfuscation?
3) ignorance?
4) dishonesty?

[JehovahsWitness]

Where is the above quote from? My opinion on it? Hogwash.

The summary was my own and it was an attempt to articulate WHAT the Catholic POV on these historical events is. Obviously there must exist a commentary on the Catholic's take on these events and comments such as ... "I'm not aware of the Catholic Church executing anyone." lead me to assume the above. IE the Catholic Church (meaning individual representatives of the church (whether maverick working without official sanction or fully authorized persons) executed no-one.. still these 'hertics' did die so one can only presume the Catholic position is (as I stated above) that they played a minor/purfunctory or forced role. Thus my paragraph.

I invited comments because I have no idea WHAT position the Church takes on these events, whether any comment has been made in the 500 years since and what part (if any) the average Catholic believes their religion played in these events.

This is the purpose of the thread and the reason I asked the question. It is NOT an invitation to "Catholic bash" it is simply a requestion for published statements on the part of the present day church of past actions in this regard. It is not a search for what happened it is a search for what the Catholic Church and its representives FEEL/believe about what happened.

You have been helpful and I appreciate it.

JW